Pete Rose

[cernjSHU]

I am a little shocked that Pete Rose was able to participate in last night's All-Star Game and actually be on the broadcast after the game. Now, I was never a Pete Rose fan. I thought what he did to Ray Fosse during the All Star game was atrocious. Ever since then, I really disliked him. However, due to his great baseball accomplishments, I do believe that he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.

But, I would ban him from anything to do with baseball and that includes any official appearances like what happened last night. If he is banned from baseball, why was he at the All-Star Game on the field?

I am confused by what Major League baseball has done. It seems inconsistent. Any thoughts?

 

[Piratz]

I don't know what they're doing with that whole situation anymore.

Personally, I am one that holds gambling in a different light than PED's and the way he's handled it has been an absolute fiasco, too. At least he could've built up goodwill since 1989.

 

[Seton75]

I don't know what they're doing with that whole situation anymore.

Personally, I am one that holds gambling in a different light than PED's and the way he's handled it has been an absolute fiasco, too. At least he could've built up goodwill since 1989.

IMO, they are giving the all star game as much cache as possible, and using Rose in Cinncy is just too juicy to let principles get in the way.

I would never vote for Rose and still think he bet on any game he wanted. If he had ever come clean, this would probably have been all behind him by now.

 

[JIMSOULS]

Mr. False Hustle. It used to crack me up when he ran to first base after a walk.

 

[Proff Ed]

Don't het me started lol

 

[PirateSal]

MLB are hypocrites... They have his equipment in the HOF for being the "Hit King" but won't allow him in. He should be in the HOF for his baseball accomplishmentson the field but should be banned from other baseball activities.

 

[JIMSOULS]

Pete Rose bet on baseball, admitted it, and then agreed to his being placed on Major League Baseball's permanently ineligible list. There is nothing hypocritical about it. It's actually quite clear cut. Here's a recap of where Rose stands.

MAJOR LEAGUE RULES
Rule 21
MISCONDUCT

(d) BETTING ON BALL GAMES. Any player, umpire, or club official or
employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in
connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared
ineligible for one year.

Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall
bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which
the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible.

BBWAA Rules for Hall of Fame Election

E. Any player on Baseball's ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate.

 

[Halldan1]

Clayton Collier retweeted


Jesse Spector ‏@jessespector Jul 14

Denied access to an elevator so Pete Rose can ride it. At the World Series, Willie Mays had no problem riding with mortals.

 

[Vegas pj]

Cheat Rose not Pete Rose.

 

[Pirate6711]

I could see him being fully reinstated if he actually admitted to what he did. But he has not and the rules on gambling on baseball are crystal clear (unlike the rules on steroids prior to a few years ago). More information keeps on coming out about all the gambling on games he was involved in and I doubt anybody will ever know how many games he influenced due to gambling. Well, Pete Rose knows, but is so delusional about it and will never tell the truth in order to get reinstated.

 

[Section112]

You still cannot take away that he was an intense and gritty baseball player. He did hustle on every play and got more out of his so so talent than any player I have ever seen. That intensity is probably what did not help with his gambling problem either. Folks forget how good he really was and how much he bothered pitchers and defenses the way he ran the bases. Teams did not like to play him when he was on the bases and he was there a lot with all of those hits. Its too bad because IMO he should be in the Hall of Fame but baseball is tops in hypocrisy especially the way they have handled the whole PEDs issue over the years.

 

[Seton75]

There is one warning in every clubhouse. And so many want to praise the one guy who crapped all over it.

 

[JIMSOULS]

I don't understand why people mention PEDs and baseball being hypocritical when they defend Rose. Gambling and PEDs are two separate issues. The reason for Rose being permanently ineligible is clear cut. People need to consider this fact and stop making excuses for him. Everyone else has adhered to that rule. Why couldn't he? People also need to stop exaggerating his greatness. While it's true he accumulated the most hits, its also true that he was at best the third wheel on the Big Red Machine. Rose should be a non-story as he has been dealt with fairly. All that time he spent "hustling" by running to first base after a walk shouldn't change anything.

 

[batts]

I really don't see the big deal about forgiving the guy and admitting him to the Hall of Fame if he ever showed an appropriate amount of remorse for his actions. Our society forgives and excuses almost every other type of addiction (drugs, sex, alcohol, etc) why not gambling? No doubt that Rose played the game to win and pulled out all stops. I was not a fan of what Rose did to Fosse during the All Star game as he ruined the poor guy's career for no good reason. However, that's a separate matter.

 

[Piratz]

People also need to stop exaggerating his greatness. While it's true he accumulated the most hits, its also true that he was at best the third wheel on the Big Red Machine. Rose should be a non-story as he has been dealt with fairly. All that time he spent "hustling" by running to first base after a walk shouldn't change anything.

I agree with this. He was a great player, certainly HOF-caliber. The guy amassed 4,256 hits over 24 seasons with a career line of .303/.375/.409. His longevity is what's most impressive about his career, IMO.

 

[cernjSHU]

His career as a baseball player was indeed great. MVP award and a lifetime batting average of .303 is great. From 1963 (where he won Rookie of the Year) to 1991, Rose batted over .300 in all but 4 years. I disagree with Jimsouls that people exaggerate his greatness. I do believe based upon his accomplishments he belongs in the Hall of Fame.

But, if he came clean I would have had him be voted on to be placed in the Hall of Fame during his lifetime. But he should never be associated, employed or have anything to do with baseball. That ban should continue.

I think Rose's actions by not admitting it and he is really just not a nice guy, I think as punishment that he should never see himself in the Hall of Fame. Once he dies, they should induct him. That is punishment that he never saw himself in the Hall but baseball does recognize his greatness. For that matter, isn't it time that Shoeless Joe Jackson be inducted?

 

[Vegas pj]

Induct him now - in the Hall of Shame! His "gamesmanship" every year at the Hall of Fame induction ceremonies shows he his classless, not to mention a CHEAT.

 

[Bobbie Solo]

if you want an aggressive take on this...

 

[HallLine69]

An incredibly good baseball player.

An incredible knucklehead otherwise.

I have no sympathy for him. He made his bed.

 

[PirateSal]

What I am calling hypocritical of MLB is that its ok for them to have Pete Rose Memorabilia in the HOF is OK but not the player who amassed the records. That's why I say he should be in the HOF but still be banned from baseball.

 

[Piratz]

MLB are hypocrites... They have his equipment in the HOF for being the "Hit King" but won't allow him in. He should be in the HOF for his baseball accomplishmentson the field but should be banned from other baseball activities.

I think having some mention of him in their HOF displays is the compromise. They have acknowledged their all-time hit king without crowning the person with induction. It may seem hypocritical in some sense, but Rose himself put MLB and the HOF in a tricky spot.

They have many exhibits that aren't all from HOFers.

Now to glorify the person Pete Rose at the ASG? Hypocritical and awkward to me, especially given how he's handled the situation. He hasn't earned that. Wasn't necessary, but they were going for the big stage drama as Seton75 mentioned with the ASG in Cincinnati this year.

 

[MBF72]

I think having some mention of him in their HOF displays is the compromise. They have acknowledged their all-time hit king without crowning the person with induction. It may seem hypocritical in some sense, but Rose himself put MLB and the HOF in a tricky spot.

They have many exhibits that aren't all from HOFers.

Although I am not in favor of it, it might be revealing if MLB or HOF allowed Rose to be on the ballot, and then to have him clearly rejected. The big steroid users who have been eligible---and who would otherwise have gotten in---haven't come close.

Now to glorify the person Pete Rose at the ASG? Hypocritical and awkward to me, especially given how he's handled the situation. He hasn't earned that. Wasn't necessary, but they were going for the big stage drama as Seton75 mentioned with the ASG in Cincinnati this year.

 

[JIMSOULS]

It is impossible for him to be in the Hall of Fame due to him being permanently ineligible. Rules are rules, and you can't break them just for one player.

 

[donnie_baseball]

An incredibly good baseball player.

An incredible knucklehead otherwise.

I have no sympathy for him. He made his bed.

I think 69 sums it up best, here. To say he had so-so talent, or was an "average" ballplayer is to not know the game. You can't be a "compiler" and maintain a career .300+ BA.

 

[Shuathelete]

Next Year All Star break weekend:

Home Run Derby Contest. A Rod, Canseco, Sosa, McGuire, and Bonds all have 6 months to juice. Winner gets into the HOF.

Pete Rose gets in if he bets on the right winner.

 

[Pirate64]

An incredibly good baseball player.

An incredible knucklehead otherwise.

I have no sympathy for him. He made his bed.

You summed it up perfectly 69. A shmegegge first class.

 

[Section112]

His career as a baseball player was indeed great. MVP award and a lifetime batting average of .303 is great. From 1963 (where he won Rookie of the Year) to 1991, Rose batted over .300 in all but 4 years. I disagree with Jimsouls that people exaggerate his greatness. I do believe based upon his accomplishments he belongs in the Hall of Fame.

But, if he came clean I would have had him be voted on to be placed in the Hall of Fame during his lifetime. But he should never be associated, employed or have anything to do with baseball. That ban should continue.

I think Rose's actions by not admitting it and he is really just not a nice guy, I think as punishment that he should never see himself in the Hall of Fame. Once he dies, they should induct him. That is punishment that he never saw himself in the Hall but baseball does recognize his greatness. For that matter, isn't it time that Shoeless Joe Jackson be inducted?

Agree with this sentiment completely. DIsagree with Piratz 1000% saying his longevity was the best thing about his career and Jimsouls. The guy brought it every day and played very hard and was at the top of the league in batting avg for a very long time. Clearly a hall of famer and players especially pitchers on opposing teams could not stand playing against Rose as he got under their skin at bat and on the basepaths. Why is it that we characterize guys as aggregators that had great numbers over a long period of time but were not home run hitters or big RBI guys (Rose, Jeter, Biggio)? I think lots of folks forget how good he was. On top of his average his runs scored and SB numbers were huge for a guy that was not that fast. He over achieved significantly. The betting issue is huge though and he should be banned from baseball but enshrined in the HOF.

 

[hallgrad80]

The two biggest no - no's in baseball that suffer a penalty of being declared PERMANENTLY INELIGIBLE are throwing a game and betting on a game and anyone who violates either of those provisions should never be elected to the HOF .

 

[Piratz]

Agree with this sentiment completely. DIsagree with Piratz 1000% saying his longevity was the best thing about his career and Jimsouls. The guy brought it every day and played very hard and was at the top of the league in batting avg for a very long time. Clearly a hall of famer and players especially pitchers on opposing teams could not stand playing against Rose as he got under their skin at bat and on the basepaths. Why is it that we characterize guys as aggregators that had great numbers over a long period of time but were not home run hitters or big RBI guys (Rose, Jeter, Biggio)? I think lots of folks forget how good he was. On top of his average his runs scored and SB numbers were huge for a guy that was not that fast. He over achieved significantly. The betting issue is huge though and he should be banned from baseball but enshrined in the HOF.

To me there's a difference between "aggregators" and my comment on Rose's longevity. He was a great player for a long time.

You mention Derek Jeter. I don't think Pete Rose as as good as Jeter. I'll take Jeter any day of the week over Charlie Hustle.

Now I think Biggio was an aggregator. I was also a bit surprised Barry Larkin got in.

 

[Section112]

You won't get any arguments for me on Jeter - loved him as a player and I'm a Yankee fan.