If you read I specifically said I wasn't comparing Shaheen to Izzo you dope.
Shaheen is more accomplished in March than Willard. Happy?
So i guess Sha is a tournament coach
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If you read I specifically said I wasn't comparing Shaheen to Izzo you dope.
Shaheen is more accomplished in March than Willard. Happy?
This is a silly argument. If you took a poll and asked 100 coaches/anylists/commentators and asked if a coach is a good tournament coach none of them would say it’s because of early season MTE’s.
It’s not a basketball-knowledge based argument.
The simple fact is early tournaments are often won on talent alone as teams are just getting to know themselves.
A late season tournament? Different animal entirely.
It’s why even Coach K is asking for recent/season ending records to be weighed heavier for NCAA inclusion.
It’s not a basketball-knowledge based argument.
The simple fact is early tournaments are often won on talent alone as teams are just getting to know themselves.
A late season tournament? Different animal entirely.
It’s why even Coach K is asking for recent/season ending records to be weighed heavier for NCAA inclusion.
That’s a fact. Undeniable truth. If you only looked for truth in the original post you would find how ridiculous it is.
Big east tournament isn’t a late season tournament? Siena had more talent than us? The Johnnies were 19 points better than us?
Give me that 2015 Paradise Jam finals win over Illinois State in November 2015 and finish the year at 16-15! Woohoo.
And, of course, that’s equivalent to the recent 5 game run in the NIT tournament. Makes sense.
And, of course, that’s equivalent to the recent 5 game run in the NIT tournament. Makes sense.
Level of teams in that paradise jam = this years NIT with Pitt SJU Oklahoma etc dropping out.
The board has spoken. Forget who’s right or wrong, just suck it up and enjoy our best moment in years and hold on your detailed rebuttal.
Yes I know If we played in an MTE with st joes, north Texas, and UNLV we would all be saying this tournament sucks no different than that tournament did.
Clearly not with this non-sense. Even more embarrassing he starts it after a great run by the team and coach.
I tell ya what—since you must have the last word and you’re Mr. self-proclaimed facts guy—why don’t you look up the final RPI/Kenpom or whichever is common in these years and get back to me with the corresponding numbers for the SHU opponents.
Let me know what numbers nevada, Gardner-Webb and Illinois State ended with
He has the need to prove how much smarter and less emotional he is than every other poster on the board, and always needs the last word. I'm sure a psychoanalyst would enjoy reading his self commentary
Theyre all quad 3 and 4 games basically. they’re all bad basketball teams we should crush. Doing so in 2015 or 2024 isn’t making our coaches great tournament coaches by winning quad 4 games. We are exponentially better than all the teams we played then and this NIT until last night. We did as we should have. but we’ve underachieved in the previous 6 tournaments going back to Willard’s TCU loss in the dance. Underachieved in Orlando. Underachieved vs DePaul. I guess we did as expected vs Colorado. Underachieved in San Diego. Underachieved vs SJU. Do you disagree with any of that.
There were no Quad 4 games during the NIT tournament. Our win last night was against a Quad 1 Indiana State team. Winning 5 games in a row at any point in the season is impressive. And we capped it off with last nights Quad 1 win in a hostile environment. An environment that would make most teams crumble.
Very proud of this team and their resiliency.
because nobody ever became a great tournament coach by beating up on either quad 3 or quad 4 teams. Calipari is becoming a not so great one by losing to those teams though. You’re actually looking to compare level of crap instead of just saying it’s crap and admitting nobody ever wants to be in this tournament again if we don’t have to. Heck this tournament was so great we actually gave our guys the option not to play. Kudos to them for wanting to play and how they played.
But just for shits and giggles Illinois State and Nevada Q3, no different than SJU, N Texas, and UNLV. Gardner Webb really sucked.
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There were no quad 4 games.
St Josephs - Net 92 - Quad 3
North Texas - 79 - Quad 3
UNLV - 76 - Quad 3
Georgia - 100 - Quad 2 (neutral site)
Indiana St - 28 - Quad 1
Preparing for teams you don't know in a few days is what people mean when talking about a tournament coach. He still needs to do it at the next level, but no need to find an argument to belittle this run.
The NIT isn't the NCAA by any means, but credit where it is due. Sha accomplished coaching through massive disappointment of not making the tournament and getting his team ready to battle. He earned some praise here.
I'm kind of on SHUHoopsFan's side here, but I can't imagine a worse time to be making the argument. Just enjoy the win man. We don't get to cut nets very often around here.
When I say quad 3 or quad 4 games, hallstorm was comparing the 2015 paradise jam to the 3 games I mentioned. With Gardner Webb in it I had to be fair and mention a quad 4 game in it. So I couldn't say all Quad 3 games. I said they're all Q3 and 4. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
That's an absurd definition of tournament coach. By your definition the games vs Oklahoma and SIena last year had short turnarounds. We lost both. This year our short turnaround was vs Iowa and we lost. Or is it only short turnarounds in March.
The run was great. But nobody became a great tournament coach with that resume. That's just a fact. If we have to play in it next year I hope we win it, but seriously I'm not going to be calling any coach who even wins back to back to back NIT championships a great tournament coach. Sorry.
I agree with you. But I called it out when it happened. I'm not going to come back here in June and say you know what, this comment is really stupid.
Facts are stubborn things. The fact is you like Willard more than Holloway. I hope one day Sha wins you over.
I don't really know if I would like either of them. But I do know something true about both of them and that's the players who play for them seem to love them. That's good enough for me. But all I've ever wanted under both Sha and Willard is consistently giving us a shot in the dance. Holloway needs to at minimum achieve Willard level success here and I'll be thrilled. But ignoring 7 straight tournament losses is ridiculous. Sha is a good coach and he overachieved with this group as I've said on this thread. But ignoring 7 tournament losses in a row that include Depaul and Sienna, (do your best Joe Biden) come on man.
Season ending games in front of you is what people are talking about. No one thinks Sha is perfect, and he still has plenty to prove but this seems like such an odd thing to nitpick about right after a solid run in the NIT which is something other coaches here were not able to do.
7. You probably don't understand that number because you missed these 7 Oklahoma, Siena, Depaul, Colorado, USC, Iowa, and St John's.
This. It’s the NIT. We all know this. When you’re a #1 seed in the NIT, you’re going to be playing teams that are a cut below or, at best, mediocre power conference types. I mean this tournament had us playing 3 games at Walsh. It’s not the NCAA Tournament, it’s not the ultimate goal. But it was fun, engaging, and had buzz, now we get some great marketing which this program desperately needs because we don’t achieve these things often.
And, ironically, we got a quality win away from home against a non-con foe! 🤣
Whether or not Sha is a good coach in tournaments in November or March or this or that or what’s hyperbole is just for the sake of arguing at this point. He’s only coached 6 seasons and already has an Elite Eight and an NIT title at 2 schools deprived of even average resources, so he’s doing something right. I’m a SHU alum/fan first and I saw my team cut down nets and celebrate to end the season. I’m happy after how painful St. Patrick’s Day weekend was with the upsets and then missing. And we need all the juice we can get as a brand, which we are getting in droves today. You don’t get that in November.
Do you know what exponents are and how they work? It's ok to say no or to say you made a factual misstatement. A facts-committed mathelete who is arguing in good faith would feel honor bound to do so. Someone who thinks they are never wrong, is arguing to argue, and has to have the last word regardless of merit would not.
Exponentially better is we're better and continue to be better than these teams because we are more talented and have more potential. You want to say the word is wrong, but you don't want to admit 7 tournament losses in a row is bad. Wild. What is the word for someone who looks for random words that have nothing to do with the topic to win an argument that nobody is arguing about. None of the facts are on your side so you're choosing to argue how they're presented. Big time winner you are. But to help you out I'll spare you the the MTE's in November we still lost 3 straight March tournament games before this run.
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Exponentially better does not mean that. Better does. Aren't you the guy who cares about accuracy? You can demonstrate it by writing: I was wrong. Seton Hall was not exponentially better than any of the other teams, let alone all but one of them. What I wrote was factually incorrect. I did not have that fact on my side. I am an adult who can admit when I am wrong about something. At least something so obviously wrong it makes me look increasingly foolish to argue about it.
You're asking someone to do what you won't do. You can shock the board and tell them my facts are correct. You're just upset I have no respect for the modern day NIT. With so many good teams opting out, and even our team which was given the option to opt out, it's currently how I saw the CBI when it first came out.
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Locking the thread. This is trolling with a purpose.
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