The Hard Truth

[buckfoston824]

Back when players were college athletes - they were expected to be loyal to the schools that paid for their education, developed them into men and gave them a chance to play professionally. Teams were “family” and often times guys became “brothers for life”.

Its time for SHU fans to move on from that mentality entirely. These are now professional basketball teams with professional basketball players being paid to play. Loyalty is expected for one season only. This goes both ways as players can now not only be recruited over with HS seniors and paid for transfers but our own players can be poached right from under us even to rivals within the conference. These guys are now co-workers only.

Developing players is no longer viable for mid sized programs because with modern roster churn your best 3 players could all be wearing different jerseys the following season. Hell, most of our top 5 guys next season will be transfers aside from Coleman.

It’s the wild west now. Whether the reigns are pulled in over time and regulations are imposed to create a more even playing field we as fans need to realize that the players AND coaches don’t recognize the word loyalty any longer. It’s all about the present.

 

[Piratz]

Yeah it’s over and suddenly. Development comes from commitment. There’s no longer any commitment available for more than 1 year at a time. Until multi-year commitments are part of NIL/transferring you root for the school and the root for the roster building each summer, I guess.

 

[SHUHitman]

I'd love to see NIL money put into escrow until an athlete's collegiate career is done. I'd also like to see it so that the team an athlete finishes with is ultimately the one that is responsible for paying said athlete's entire NIL freight over his career.

If Seton Hall can offer an athlete $250,000 in NIL funds for his career, so be it. Put it in escrow. If another athletic program wishes to solicit players services for his junior and senior seasons, thereby activating a transfer by said athlete, then the escrowed funds are returned to the previous institution and the new institution must fund the previous guarantee in addition to whatever additional funds are negotiated.

I know this is a pipe dream, but this would help alleviate the madness, in my opinion. It would also reign in the money being thrown around as a school would potentially have to pay 4 years worth of NIL for 1 year of service. It will be worth it for many, but not all. These are professional athletes now, and there should be contracts to reflect that. The contracts obviously have an out by way of the above process, and this prevents smaller schools from blowing their wad on one season, only to have their program left in tatters by self-interested children (not meant to disparage, just stating the truth) taking every last penny elsewhere in the following one.

 

[buckfoston824]

I like your idea but cat is already out of the bag. Players want their money now

 

[SPK145]

Mic drop.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Back when players were college athletes - they were expected to be loyal to the schools that paid for their education, developed them into men and gave them a chance to play professionally. Teams were “family” and often times guys became “brothers for life”.

Its time for SHU fans to move on from that mentality entirely. These are now professional basketball teams with professional basketball players being paid to play. Loyalty is expected for one season only. This goes both ways as players can now not only be recruited over with HS seniors and paid for transfers but our own players can be poached right from under us even to rivals within the conference. These guys are now co-workers only.

Developing players is no longer viable for mid sized programs because with modern roster churn your best 3 players could all be wearing different jerseys the following season. Hell, most of our top 5 guys next season will be transfers aside from Coleman.

It’s the wild west now. Whether the reigns are pulled in over time and regulations are imposed to create a more even playing field we as fans need to realize that the players AND coaches don’t recognize the word loyalty any longer. It’s all about the present.

I'm rooting for the players to become school employees. I think that's the only way this is solved in a manner that will even the playing field to some degree. Schools have been avoiding cutting any check to players. Once schools have to cut those checks the system will then collapse because there's no reason for schools like St Peter's, FDU, Iona, Rider, etc to pay athletes. Eventually thousands of kids who got an education through sports will either miss out on an education or will thousands of dollars in debt. Only then is there a chance that people will wake up and see that, the only question is will the big boys care.

 

[The Crows Nest]

I'd love to see NIL money put into escrow until an athlete's collegiate career is done. I'd also like to see it so that the team an athlete finishes with is ultimately the one that is responsible for paying said athlete's entire NIL freight over his career.

If Seton Hall can offer an athlete $250,000 in NIL funds for his career, so be it. Put it in escrow. If another athletic program wishes to solicit players services for his junior and senior seasons, thereby activating a transfer by said athlete, then the escrowed funds are returned to the previous institution and the new institution must fund the previous guarantee in addition to whatever additional funds are negotiated.

I know this is a pipe dream, but this would help alleviate the madness, in my opinion. It would also reign in the money being thrown around as a school would potentially have to pay 4 years worth of NIL for 1 year of service. It will be worth it for many, but not all. These are professional athletes now, and there should be contracts to reflect that. The contracts obviously have an out by way of the above process, and this prevents smaller schools from blowing their wad on one season, only to have their program left in tatters by self-interested children (not meant to disparage, just stating the truth) taking every last penny elsewhere in the following one.

while I agree with the "multi year commitment" concept and goal, I think setting it up to have the final school pick up the entire tab would be shot down as "restraint of trade"...for the very reasons you cite.

Virtually no school will want to take a transfer who has any significant NIL "baggage" as they would then be responsible for conceivably up to 3 years of such baggage...and thus said player would have virtually no where to go.

As it is set up above, you could also see this used by schools to "run off" players who didnt meet the schools expectations, so said school could replenish their NIL funds wiuth the return of said players monies when they transfer....or leave said player without anywhere to go and presumably the NIL is in....limbo?

I do think multi year deals have to become part of the equation...and am not sure why they couldnt right now...except if the reason is the "market" (ie the players and agents) right now have no good reason to sign such agreements.

However, say Jasheem Felton is offered a 3 year deal by an SHU collective, payable as 50K, 100K and 200K over the 3 years, provided he stays and plays basketball at SHU. Does that mean he HAS to stay? of course not, if the market is 500K for him by year 3 he can still "walk" and forfeit the aforementioned 200K; or he could "renegotiate" a new rate with his original school (SHU).

I am not sure why, in this era of no rules, this couldn't happen right now. like all "lengthy" deals, the trade off is certainty...for both sides. The Hall commits to financial terms for a longer term, and in return for that, pays at what may become a below market rate...but has a better chance of retaining said player.

 

[williaza01]

I have heard a few schools have moved to back date most of the NIL money to the day after the portal closes next season

Idk how effective it will be but I think it’s an effort to get kids to stay

 

[MBF72]

I'm rooting for the players to become school employees. I think that's the only way this is solved in a manner that will even the playing field to some degree. Schools have been avoiding cutting any check to players. Once schools have to cut those checks the system will then collapse because there's no reason for schools like St Peter's, FDU, Iona, Rider, etc to pay athletes. Eventually thousands of kids who got an education through sports will either miss out on an education or will thousands of dollars in debt. Only then is there a chance that people will wake up and see that, the only question is will the big boys care.

Maybe not. It wouldn't help us, but if the schools you mention----I'm not sure about Iona-after-Rick--- move to something similar to Div. II, they could just give kids scholarships. If many schools can't compete in the $$$$$ world there will be fewer schools who can offer Kadary- or even Middleton-money, making more previously bound mid to low Div. I players available.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Maybe not. It wouldn't help us, but if the schools you mention----I'm not sure about Iona-after-Rick--- move to something similar to Div. II, they could just give kids scholarships. If many schools can't compete in the $$$$$ world there will be fewer schools who can offer Kadary- or even Middleton-money, making more previously bound mid to low Div. I players available.

I'm sorry but if an athlete at the division I level is deemed an employee, how could the player at the division ii level not be deemed an employee? Is that possible.

 

[MBF72]

I wonder if every year brings in a brand new cast of characters and we are a barely .500 BE team, if attendance will fall off noticeably. Also, for a school like us, is it foolish to put resources into recruiting high school kids, rather than just picking up what we can from the portal?

And, realistically, how much longer might Shaheen stick around?

 

[SPK145]

I'm sorry but if an athlete at the division I level is deemed an employee, how could the player at the division ii level not be deemed an employee? Is that possible.

Base it on revenue generation?

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Base it on revenue generation?

Is that legal? I do know no one can just decide I'm paying my receptionist based on revenue generated and then pay the wages equate to $3 per hour. If they're outside contractors they can be paid on commission, but I'm talking as employees which would mean minimum wage.

 

[mountain25]

College sports were better when the athletes were getting nothing except a free education. I don't believe that is the answer, but it is better than what is going on now.

 

[SPK145]

Is that legal? I do know no one can just decide I'm paying my receptionist based on revenue generated and then pay the wages equate to $3 per hour. If they're outside contractors they can be paid on commission, but I'm talking as employees which would mean minimum wage.

So what do you do about all the other sports at Seton Hall not named men's basketball? Do they get paid? Do they get paid the same as men's basketball? If not, why not?

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

So what do you do about all the other sports at Seton Hall not named men's basketball? Do they get paid? Do they get paid the same as men's basketball? If not, why not?

I would think if one sports athletes are employees they all are otherwise that's some form discrimination. right? You drop the teams if you can't afford it. Non profits can't fund every venture that falls within it's mission. You do what your means allows. This is the negative side of athletes being paid.

There's nothing that says all employees must be paid the same but all employees must meet the required minimum wage of the state they are in.

 

[SPK145]

I would think if one sports athletes are employees they all are otherwise that's some form discrimination. right? You drop the teams if you can't afford it. Non profits can't fund every venture that falls within it's mission. You do what your means allows. This is the negative side of athletes being paid.

There's nothing that says all employees must be paid the same but all employees must meet the required minimum wage of the state they are in.

And is this just scholarship athletes or all athletes?

What a huge can of worms this opens up.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

And is this just scholarship athletes or all athletes?

What a huge can of worms this opens up.

Is there a law that would state a scholarship athlete athlete doesn't have to make minimum wage or overtime rules don't apply to them. The only way I could understand that is if the scholarship itself was taxable compensation. These kids at Dartmouth are so book smart but have no clue how the real world works. They're going to get what Geo Baker got when he envisioned college athletes getting paid, chaos. Schools aren't going to pay a 30 man baseball team minimum wage and then OT for when they clock in to go do a lift or clock in to go get a run in. Good bye baseball and hello sports like tennis where it's a limited roster. But that's exactly why I see division ii and non P6 maybe even non P4 conferences getting crushed in an employee based system. If my child was a swimmer and the basketball athletes were employees, and my child was putting just as much hard work, I'd join a class action lawsuit because someone's going to call it what it is...discrimination.

 

[SPK145]

The only way I could understand that is if the scholarship itself was taxable compensation.

Room and board is taxable.