A Change For The Better...

[Fordham_57]

A couple of weeks ago I came on the board and posted a very "over-the-top" thread denouncing the Willard bashers and calling for us to enjoy the great team that Willard has assembled. I took a lot of grief for that post, but since then the board has been totally free of all the nonsense. Someone did post one very credible reply to my post saying winning solves everything. That must be the truth because the board is now a pleasure to come on because now we are discussing the players, the team strategy, etc.

Let's face it, only time will tell if Willard is a good coach or not. In the meantime, winning will keep this board readable and pleasurable. I'm sure we're all for that. Frank

 

[Piratz]

Everyone wants the team to win and represent the university well. As we head in 2016 there will be opportunities galore for Willard and his team to seize and change the narrative after five consecutive bad years.

If they finally come through and have great success, many of the vultures will be spooked away. It always takes care of itself.

 

[statenman]

Willard has frequently had a good record through the end of December and even until the first half of January. it would be an epic change if our record from January until March is as good as our first half of the season.

 

[Seton75]

My feelings. I have not liked him as a coach. But, I think I would have said the same thing an out pj in 87 before the be started. I know pj had a steady progression upwards unlike kevin. But I know I was not a fan nor hopeful we were getting there. The finish to 88 stunned me. So I hope the history of my misreading of the situation is repeating. The way we end this year will be extremely important.

 

[dr bill1]

I sense a change in coach Willard this season. Maybe it's my optimism, maybe it's naïvety. However, i have seen several coaches who caught a break and brought in some special players that made them look really good after years of disappointment. i hope this is the case for Willard and staff. After working very hard at their craft they really deserve to have a breakout season. We all deserve the same, especially the players.

 

[Shuathelete]

The sky is blue, when the sky is blue we look up and see the sky is blue. Indicative of a blue sky.

Yea of course winning solves things we haven't done nearly enough of it. At least show some effort in games we lose...that might be the biggest difference moving forward. Not collapsing will be the biggest factor. Consistent progression. Excited to see what happens vs marquette. Big East is a different beast.

 

[radecicco]

Big East is a different beast.

Totally agree. The intensity of fans and the opposition on the road will be off the charts. There are not many soft games in the BE which has never been kind to young teams. And we are a very young team. Plus the double round robin ensures that there is no let up.

These are not excuses just the reality of the situation. I'm hopeful: individuals on the team are improving, the defense is improved, the coach looks solid thus far, Delgado is rounding into form, IW is getting better as a lead guard, Desi is blossoming, etc.

But were going into Marquette that features the best big guy tandem in the league with Fischer and Ellenson (sp), both 6'10+. The former is 2nd team all- BE quality and the latter is a projected top 5 pick in the NBA draft. It won't be easy.

 

[SPK145]

Let's face it, only time will tell if Willard is a good coach or not.

How much time does that take? 10 years? 15 years?

Doesn't 5 years and 30 wins vs. 60 losses tell you anything?

 

[HALL85]

Big East is a different beast.

Totally agree. The intensity of fans and the opposition on the road will be off the charts. There are not many soft games in the BE which has never been kind to young teams. And we are a very young team. Plus the double round robin ensures that there is no let up.

These are not excuses just the reality of the situation. I'm hopeful: individuals on the team are improving, the defense is improved, the coach looks solid thus far, Delgado is rounding into form, IW is getting better as a lead guard, Desi is blossoming, etc.

But were going into Marquette that features the best big guy tandem in the league with Fischer and Ellenson (sp), both 6'10+. The former is 2nd team all- BE quality and the latter is a projected top 5 pick in the NBA draft. It won't be easy.

lets be fair...Marquette is younger than us. Ellenson and three of there other rotation guys are Freshmen. No seniors in rotation either.

 

[SHUisNJsTeam]

How much time does that take? 10 years? 15 years?

Doesn't 5 years and 30 wins vs. 60 losses tell you anything?

Let's try to remember we also had a lot of injuries in the early years (Hazell, Pope) and later on some head cases (kid who transferred to Illinois, Sina). This year we have thankfully been pretty healthy, especially when compared to years past, and this year there doesn't seem to be any head cases. With the incredible talent we have on this team I think things will finally break our way and we'll start to enjoy the kind of success we did years ago.

 

[Vegas pj]

How much time does that take? 10 years? 15 years?

Doesn't 5 years and 30 wins vs. 60 losses tell you anything?

Thank you. Took the words right out of my mouth. I hate having someone beat me to the punch. lol

The bloviating by the poster who started this thread is beyond belief. Don't he doesn't like reading the threads, then don't! No one is making him read it. Glad he's excited by the OOC results which is exactly where an educated derelict would have placed SH at this time. ( I can think of 1 poster who would have had SH undefeated with an eye at 3rd place in the BE)

 

[Piratz]

The Big East is as big of a mental challenge as it is physical and this is where our soft teams have folded historically. It's been pervasive throughout the Willard Era. We've had good starts and then crumble. He has demonstrated an inability to get teams over the hump, so why is everyone surprised by the criticism??

We have been seriously terrible for 5 years. These are not a bunch of nut job fans freaking out and sharpening the pitchforks without reason. It's unreal.

Will this year be magically different? Is this the magic group of players for KW? Damn, I hope so. Not because I'm filled with optimism from watching this trainwreck on the court for 5 years, but because we haven't won in so long and I harbor no ill will towards KW personally, so it's not going to bother me if he wins here. I'd love if it turned. Just win.

Willard's going to be on the skewer all season until it's proven and rightly so. He's earned it.

 

[Piratefan2009]

Willard's going to be on the skewer all season until it's proven and rightly so. He's earned it.

People have been fair to Willard this season. I wouldn't even say he's on the skewer for anything we've seen. He's on the skewer for the boondoggles of his 5 year crash & burn history, and rightfully so.

There are not many soft games in the BE which has never been kind to young teams. And we are a very young team. Plus the double round robin ensures that there is no let up.

These are not excuses just the reality of the situation. I'm hopeful: individuals on the team are improving, the defense is improved, the coach looks solid thus far, Delgado is rounding into form, IW is getting better as a lead guard, Desi is blossoming, etc.

But were going into Marquette that features the best big guy tandem in the league with Fischer and Ellenson (sp), both 6'10+. The former is 2nd team all- BE quality and the latter is a projected top 5 pick in the NBA draft. It won't be easy

Young is this year's excuse. It's a hedge bet against Willard's incompetence if they fall apart again. I do agree that Desi is blossoming, but the comment about Delgado just seems like straining for a compliment. He's a sophomore who played in a high level tourney in the summer. He shouldn't have to "round into form" over 12 games. It was more that he was playing poorly in the first half of the OOC and improved in the last 4 or so games to where you would expect. IW is shooting worse this year, but has improved some aspects of his game like assists, blocks, and less fouling.

Before round robin the league was even harder. Playing Gtown or Villanova twice is no harder than facing Cuse, Louisville and WVU. The Big East has not gotten more difficult as a new league, and we remain right about where we were rank wise in the old league (the bottom).

Bottom line is Marquette is also a young team, including one of the big men you're up about. Our record so far is middling. Take out the 7, 200+ opponents, and we have 3-2 record. It's good, but we have a lot to prove if we want to make the tournament. We can start proving it by winning this week.

 

[Pirate64]

Until this year, KW never took the blame for the losses or the bad seasons. He was never the problem- it was always something or somebody else.

His self-image of being this fabulous coach - the great x's and o's guy- really got to me.
The lack of humility despite the losses. And considering what he gets paid- I felt like the University and the fans were being taken for a ride.

This year, I've seen glimpses that this has changed- that maybe he has matured and will accept full responsibility when things go bad.

But I'm not canonizing him yet.

 

[hallgrad80]

How much time does that take? 10 years? 15 years?

Doesn't 5 years and 30 wins vs. 60 losses tell you anything?

Apparently not for the decision makers at SH which should surprise no one.

 

[Seton75]

Apparently not for the decision makers at SH which should surprise no one.

He deserves the blame for his bad seasons of the past. He had injuries, but we had recruiting classes featuring kids with no chance of being Big East players and the team's played badly, or collapsed in amazingly embarrassing fashion.

But, he still can become a good coach and I hope he is finding his way. The recruiting is far better and we play defense. I will be rooting for him to turn the corner

 

[hallgrad80]

He deserves the blame for his bad seasons of the past. He had injuries, but we had recruiting classes featuring kids with no chance of being be players and the team's played badly, or collapsed in amazingly embarrassing fashion.

But, he still can become a good coach and I hope he is finding his way. The recruiting is far better and we play defense. I will be rooting for him to turn the corner

He either is or is not a good head coach. He's been a head coach for 8 years and now is in his ninth season and if he's not a good head coach by now how long do we wait to make that judgement. Even if we have an improved season this year I personally would need to see improvement next year over this year because what you judge the most in evaluating a head coach is consistency. I am cautiously optimistic about how we fare with our conference schedule and I do see some signs that he has changed and how we do the rest of this season will tell us just how much he has matured as a coach.

 

[NYC Pirate]

So far things are trending up this year. This has to be the make or break season in my opinion. He seems
to be approaching his job in a different way. That's good to see. We can't go overboard just yet. The most difficult part of the season is in front of us. There is a good nucleus of talent and the guys are playing some
intense team defense. Too early for report cards and final arguments.

 

[Seton75]

He either is or is not a good head coach. He's been a head coach for 8 years and now is in his ninth season and if he's not a good head coach by now how long do we wait to make that judgement. Even if we have an improved season this year I personally would need to see improvement next year over this year because what you judge the most in evaluating a head coach is consistency. I am cautiously optimistic about how we fare with our conference schedule and I do see some signs that he has changed and how we do the rest of this season will tell us just how much he has matured as a coach.

Come on. You cannot be better at your job over time? I wish we made the change last spring. I wished we never hired him. I wished we did not hire pj and probably would been happy if we fired him until 88. And I bet I am not alone on pj. Just cause I wished something doesn't mean it is right. I am rooting for this season to show he is figuring it out.

 

[Fordham_57]

Thank you. Took the words right out of my mouth. I hate having someone beat me to the punch. lol

The bloviating by the poster who started this thread is beyond belief. Don't he doesn't like reading the threads, then don't! No one is making him read it. Glad he's excited by the OOC results which is exactly where an educated derelict would have placed SH at this time. ( I can think of 1 poster who would have had SH undefeated with an eye at 3rd place in the BE)

I admit I am more fan than analyst, but a coach's first five years record is not prima facie evidence of a bad coach. PJ's first 5 years at SHU his record was 54-92 overall and 11-70 in the Big East.
Incidentally, there is no need to insult me because you don't agree with me. Frank

 

[Vegas pj]

He deserves the blame for his bad seasons of the past. ...

But, he still can become a good coach ...

5 more years, five more years! Give him time, give him time! There are you happy now? Two head coaching gigs does not a good coach make.What? Ah, 3 times a charm. I/we can only hope for #3.

 

[Seton75]

5 more years, five more years! Give him time, give him time! There are you happy now? Two head coaching gigs does not a good coach make.What? Ah, 3 times a charm. I/we can only hope for #3.

I said I wanted him fired. Now he is still our coach and I hope for wild success. You can hope we fall on our face again and you can be proven right if that makes you happy.

 

[Piratefan2009]

I admit I am more fan than analyst, but a coach's first five years record is not prima facie evidence of a bad coach. PJ's first 5 years at SHU his record was 54-92 overall and 11-70 in the Big East.
Incidentally, there is no need to insult me because you don't agree with me. Frank

That is one way to look at it, and it definitely suggests that you should look at trends as well as records. Why do you compare Willard to PJ? Is there a reason to think they are alike? There have been a lot of other coaches across the country that have failed for five seasons without succeeding in the 6th. Much more I assume fail than succeed. I don't see why the comparison is apt other than it would turn out well for Willard and the Hall.

I'm much more concerned about the team issues that have followed Willard all 5 years. Team intensity/motivation during games. Players breaking out and doing their own thing instead of playing team ball. Locker room issues. Player fundamentals like boxing out/foul-shooting/team rebounding. I'm tired of watching games (when I don't go) and hearing the announcers talk about how important it is to teach good foul shooting as our players miss shot after shot. .

I know the trend has been to just talk about how great they are now, but we've only played about 5 solid opponents in the OOC. Only one of those games was our assist/turnover ratio positive. In 3 of the games we got out-rebounded. We still struggle playing team ball, and working a good offensive scheme. The competition is about to get harder, which will give us a chance to see if they can continue to improve.

 

[SPK145]

I admit I am more fan than analyst, but a coach's first five years record is not prima facie evidence of a bad coach.

When is it enough time? 10 years? 15 years?

 

[shupat08]

Did we even have BE caliber players during PJ's first few season? The likes of Fu, Hazell, JT, Pope, JRob? Etc?

Didn't PJ literally have the build a competitive BE program? Did KW have to build a program? Or was he handed a bunch of BE quality players?

PJ's first year was our 3rd or 4th in the BE with the likes of Nova, GTown, Prov, STJ all national powers.

And PJs teams went up in wins ever year jumping from 15 to 22 from year 5 to 6 then to 31 and the championship game in year 7.

No real similarities that I can see in their first 5 years except they were bad.

And if we are comparing them are people saying we're going to the Championship game next year?!?!

 

[Muggsy Blue]

So now the Willard bashers are out again. What did you think was going to happen by starting this thread, Fordham? You brought it the forefront friend.

 

[Seton75]

Did we even have BE caliber players during PJ's first few season? The likes of Fu, Hazell, JT, Pope, JRob? Etc?

Didn't PJ literally have the build a competitive BE program? Did KW have to build a program? Or was he handed a bunch of BE quality players?

PJ's first year was our 3rd or 4th in the BE with the likes of Nova, GTown, Prov, STJ all national powers.

And PJs teams went up in wins ever year jumping from 15 to 22 from year 5 to 6 then to 31 and the championship game in year 7.

No real similarities that I can see in their first 5 years except they were bad.

And if we are comparing them are people saying we're going to the Championship game next year?!?!

All great points. I don't say I was wise, just that firing pj would have been ok with me. So I don't take my opinion now too seriously. I think the only rebuilding job more impressive than what pj did was Calhoun at ct. But till we got good, I was missing it.

And while the top four BE teams were terrific, pc, bc, CT usually sucked too. They just sucked less than us.

 

[shupat08]

While PC may have sucked. They did make the FF in 87. During PJs first 5 years at SHU.

 

[Flnj86]

Some of you fans should root for the Giants, HaHa. This year there is only one team in NY and that is the Jets. Seton Hall 10-2 # HALLin. Some of you fans have a lot in common with the Giants this year!

 

[BostonBlackie]

Thank you. Took the words right out of my mouth. I hate having someone beat me to the punch. lol

The bloviating by the poster who started this thread is beyond belief. Don't he doesn't like reading the threads, then don't! No one is making him read it. Glad he's excited by the OOC results which is exactly where an educated derelict would have placed SH at this time. ( I can think of 1 poster who would have had SH undefeated with an eye at 3rd place in the BE)

I find calling Frank (Fordham 57) "bloviating" to be truly offensive. There is no more decent, sincere poster on this board.

 

[Pirata]

Don't he doesn't like reading the threads, then don't!

Have another Martini! lol

 

[radecicco]

People have been fair to Willard this season. I wouldn't even say he's on the skewer for anything we've seen. He's on the skewer for the boondoggles of his 5 year crash & burn history, and rightfully so.



Young is this year's excuse. It's a hedge bet against Willard's incompetence if they fall apart again. I do agree that Desi is blossoming, but the comment about Delgado just seems like straining for a compliment. He's a sophomore who played in a high level tourney in the summer. He shouldn't have to "round into form" over 12 games. It was more that he was playing poorly in the first half of the OOC and improved in the last 4 or so games to where you would expect. IW is shooting worse this year, but has improved some aspects of his game like assists, blocks, and less fouling.

Before round robin the league was even harder. Playing Gtown or Villanova twice is no harder than facing Cuse, Louisville and WVU. The Big East has not gotten more difficult as a new league, and we remain right about where we were rank wise in the old league (the bottom).

Bottom line is Marquette is also a young team, including one of the big men you're up about. Our record so far is middling. Take out the 7, 200+ opponents, and we have 3-2 record. It's good, but we have a lot to prove if we want to make the tournament. We can start proving it by winning this week.

Wow, the intensity on the negative side far outpaces intensity on the positive side, even when things are going well right now. It's understandable given the recent past.

Yes both teams are young, we just happen to be opening at their place. Which makes it a tough game. They are also 10-2 having beaten Presbyterian today. I haven't looked but I suspect Marquette's OOC SOS is similar to ours.

I'm high on their big guy because he's a projected top 5 NBA draft pick and I believe he is there leading scorer. Delgado was on the DR team but barely played so it was a lost summer. He's playing well now. Marquette goes 6'10"+ at both center and PF. We go 6'9" and 6'8. We should have an advantage on the perimeter but they have a dead eye shooter from 3 in Cohen.

I'm very interested in how the team performs in a hostile environment and rooting for a win. Why not take each game one at a time and see what happens. If it goes south, then we can all rightfully complain.

 

[shupat08]

I haven't looked but I suspect Marquette's OOC SOS is similar to ours.

I believe their RPI is something like 159 and their SOS is something like 307.

Isn't our RPI in the 50s or 60s? Not sure about our SOS.

 

[ironlung75]

I said this earlier in the year. We know KW has to win deep into the BE schedule to show he is capable of doing what is needed to be a viable coach in this league. We should not be looking at this through rose colored glasses, on the other side, the fan in me would like to see us blow away the doubters just to make a statement as a team. Starting over is never easy. This team has talent. Let's see come February if the coaching matches the talent. In the mean time we have some real tests coming up and some real unknowns. Like GT for example. Are they as good or as bad as they appear? STJ? Creighton? I am not even sure about Nova at this point. There are a lot of unknowns. X is a known, they look great! Butler looks great! PC looks pretty damn good. We just have to see. Right now I am more into being a fan and having that feeling I had at the Rock during the WS game than sitting here bashing. If the shoe drops, there will be plenty of time for that.

 

[mbraue]

That is one way to look at it, and it definitely suggests that you should look at trends as well as records. Why do you compare Willard to PJ? Is there a reason to think they are alike? There have been a lot of other coaches across the country that have failed for five seasons without succeeding in the 6th. Much more I assume fail than succeed. I don't see why the comparison is apt other than it would turn out well for Willard and the Hall.

I'm much more concerned about the team issues that have followed Willard all 5 years. Team intensity/motivation during games. Players breaking out and doing their own thing instead of playing team ball. Locker room issues. Player fundamentals like boxing out/foul-shooting/team rebounding. I'm tired of watching games (when I don't go) and hearing the announcers talk about how important it is to teach good foul shooting as our players miss shot after shot. .

I know the trend has been to just talk about how great they are now, but we've only played about 5 solid opponents in the OOC. Only one of those games was our assist/turnover ratio positive. In 3 of the games we got out-rebounded. We still struggle playing team ball, and working a good offensive scheme. The competition is about to get harder, which will give us a chance to see if they can continue to improve.

The offensive schemes have been mostly MIA. Good teams do good things repetitively. Rebound consistently. Move without the ball. Shoot free throws well. Make the extra pass. We are seeing a glimpse of some of these taking shape - hope something sticks.

 

[SHUMatt]

I see things this year that I have not seen in Willard's first 5 years.

• We seem to play better D.
• We beat up bad teams instead of playing down to their level.
• Inbound plays have improved.
• We play tough when the going gets tough. In the past we have folded late in close games.

Things that still have me concerned:

• How will be do in the BE?
• How will IW and AD play after a few losses? Will they showcase their talents for the NBA at the cost of the team?
• Rebounding.
• Team chemistry is always good when we are winning. Will it be good after a few losses? Last year there were supposed to be no bad apples. After a few losses Gibbs and Sina were labeled as villains and locker room trouble makers.
• Can Willard coach against the big boys of the BE?
• The weave offense.

We came into the BE hot a few times under Willard only to crash and burn badly. I will be rooting for a change this year but will remain skeptical until about February.

 

[Seton75]

I see things this year that I have not seen in Willard's first 5 years.

• We seem to play better D.
• We beat up bad teams instead of playing down to their level.
• Inbound plays have improved.
• We play tough when the going gets tough. In the past we have folded late in close games.

Things that still have me concerned:

• How will be do in the BE?
• How will IW and AD play after a few losses? Will they showcase their talents for the NBA at the cost of the team?
• Rebounding.
• Team chemistry is always good when we are winning. Will it be good after a few losses? Last year there were supposed to be no bad apples. After a few losses Gibbs and Sina were labeled as villains and locker room trouble makers.
• Can Willard coach against the big boys of the BE?
• The weave offense.

We came into the BE hot a few times under Willard only to crash and burn badly. I will be rooting for a change this year but will remain skeptical until about February.

February is the test, assuming we get there on a positive slant. As I remember last year, the two guys who left were seen as the victims. I agree with the concerns, but feel specially good about our rebounding at this time. We have alot of guys who get after it including the three guards. Having three guards is a concern of mine, but the depth at forward makes it easy to slide desi up top, and his play this year tells us he can handle some time at 2.