Aiken to Harvard
- Thread starter seton1996
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No, a Duke educated graduate working for the top rated University in the world.
Tommy was very young when, like a thief in the night, he left us for Michigan. Ours was a half-assed operation back then. And while I was very disappointed in how he left , I can understand why.
Our facilities were crap, our salaries were not competitive and our academics were so- so. And Michigan is a premier institution.
Now, 15 years have past since Tommy left us. He has gotten better as a bench coach and we are soaring as a University.
But head to head TA vs SHU, TA wins. He's smoother, he's refined , he makes a great impression, he engenders trust and he's Harvard.
He has always lit up a room- we have no one on staff who does that.
Our facilities were crap, our salaries were not competitive and our academics were so- so. And Michigan is a premier institution.
Now, 15 years have past since Tommy left us. He has gotten better as a bench coach and we are soaring as a University.
But head to head TA vs SHU, TA wins. He's smoother, he's refined , he makes a great impression, he engenders trust and he's Harvard.
He has always lit up a room- we have no one on staff who does that.
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What did he do?
He left Seton Hall for a much better job . Did he leave after telling players that he recruited that he would be there when they graduated , yes he did . Did he leave when SH was working on a contract extension and a raise, yes he did. What he did was what hundreds of coaches in college Sports do, they leave for a better job and the overwhelming number of them leave while there still under contract. I didn't like the way he left either but everyone that I knew who followed SH basketball knew he would never be a long term coach at SH and he left earlier then people projected and many were not upset because of the way the team performed with all those heralded freshman his last season here. People here keep knocking him and that's OK but in any discussion about his abilities I would say that he would produce better recruiting results here and likely a better record .
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You forgot to mention he left the team in Philly after EG's grandmothers funeral under cover of darkness to meet with UM and lied to them about it at the time. But that's ok, water over the damn.
It really matters little anymore how or why he left. What was important is that the program was in better shape when he left than it was when he arrived. Fact is that he was never going to be a lifer at SHU despite what many on this board thought or fantasized. For Tommy SHU was always a stepping stone and I was fine with that as long as the program improved while he was here and it did.
TK
TK
All these years later, we still can't let go of Tommy Amaker who didn't do anything that any other coach in his position wouldn't have done. It was Michigan, by God. I'd take him back in a heartbeat.
Tom
Plus four post season appearances in his four years here, 1 NCAA and 3 NIT's.
I'm no Willard fan but come on: I love Seton Hall University but if it's my kid he's going to Harvard and it's a no-brainer. You can't deprive a youngster of that kind of transformative life opportunity.
Aiken doesn't project into the pros but in any case if you are legit, the NBA scouts will find you (ie Adonol Foyle at Colgate etc). Anyway, the basketball gap between 2015 Harvard and 2015 Big East has narrowed substantially.
Best wishes to him at Harvard. I will keep rooting for this homegrown Jersey kid to make good, especially off the court.
Aiken doesn't project into the pros but in any case if you are legit, the NBA scouts will find you (ie Adonol Foyle at Colgate etc). Anyway, the basketball gap between 2015 Harvard and 2015 Big East has narrowed substantially.
Best wishes to him at Harvard. I will keep rooting for this homegrown Jersey kid to make good, especially off the court.
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Sorry, I saw Elizabeth but I guess that's just where he went to HS.
Randolph is certainly not urban at all! I have a few friends from there. always enjoyed visiting them there.
People like to wax nostalgic about Shammy's time here, but the fact is that he missed the NCAA in 3 out of 4 years (not discounting the great run in 200). I'm going to go with Jerry Izenberg's take on things, after Sam the Sham called him and tried to author his own post-mortem, so that his squeaky-clean image could be preserved, for all the moms who would cross his path in the future.
"Tommy Amaker left Seton Hall with no halo, with no logical explanation and, most of all, with an ugly wake of basketball promises made, basketball debts unpaid, and a single question: 'Tommy Amaker, who were you?'"
He rebuilt us to respectability immediately. Blaney had decimated us. TA's first team rallied at the end of the year (I have not written those words "rallied at the end of the year" about us in about 8 yrs) And we were no better than an NIT team in year two. Year three was terrific, year 4 awful. He left under shady circumstances and tried to get Izenberg to help him out. He underestimated Jerry's honesty. But his tenure here was still good and it set up Orr for his reasonable success too. If a young guy thinks his career is in danger, a lot of guys are going to do something similar to what TA did imo. Bottom line, we were important when TA was here.
Seton 75 is right on the money here. Amaker had it going here. Seton Hall had a legitimate shot with many top 100 players during his time. Amaker made a mistake going to Michigan. Sometimes the money and the prestige of the big money schools is not what it is cracked it up to be. Coaches like Brad Stevens, Shaka Smart resisted the temptation of the big money and stayed at their schools. Although Shaka finally moved on from VMI, he resisted big time offers for 4 years until what he thought was the right place to be.
I think coaches now believe you do not have to always go to the big time school. That being king at Butler or Villanova can be a better gig than going to Michigan or UCLA or Indiana.
Donnie, I will say this - we were dead and buried under Blaney, and TA's first couple years here could be looked upon as favorably as a run of the mill tournament appearance. He should be credited heavily for that resurrection. The shadiness speaks for itself, but I disagree with those who put down Amaker's resume here. He had a lousy year 4 - he did a horrible job but we were on the right track. Addition by subtraction the following year with EG would have helped.
You have to look back at the environment that existed at the time Tommy left. You had a president who never viewed successful athletics as important element in the college experience. The facilities were sub standard and the construction of the new basketball offices was funded by outside donors. To add to that environment there was limited support from the BOR for increased funding for athletics. Looking at just the facilities and the financial resources any coach would come to the conclusion that you had a better chance for success at a Michigan then at SH. While I agree that coaches can be successful at a BE school as well as a B1G school that is only possible if the school provides all the resources necessary to succeed as they do at GT , Marquette , Nova for example.
Yes, Amaker made some mistakes, but as others have said, he made SHU relevant again and he could close on a recruit. I think you have to remember that this was his first HC gig, so that makes the success he had even more significant.
"Hello. Is this the Seton Hall coach? Cause I am a MCD A
Yes, good points, which shows that while better facilities, arenas, shoe affiliations etc are preferred, it is mostly about the coach. The right coach can get past the program's shortcomings and the wrong one cannot exploit the strengths.
While your point is certainly a most valid one attracting the right coach requires the financial resources , support of the administration and a true commitment to achieving success which gives any coach the weapons and belief that he can achieve success.Without those key elements being in place could you reasonably expect to find and compete for the better coaching candidates, I would suggest you could not .
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Let me just repeat seton75's quote:
"it is mostly about the coach. The right coach can get past the program's shortcomings and the wrong one cannot exploit the strengths"
That is right on the money. Truer words have never been spoken.
Tom K
It's hard to believe now but Slam magazine had an article on SHU between TAs 3rd and 4th year called "Kids in the Hall" where it joked that Seton Hall was stocked with so much talent, it could give the then Pat Riley led Miami Heat a run.
Also had a line about Seton Hall stockpiling HS All Americans "faster than a dooms day cult in Idaho."
Difficult to imagine such a period ever coming back to South Orange.
FWIW I suspect Amaker is as wistful as we are now about that time.
Also had a line about Seton Hall stockpiling HS All Americans "faster than a dooms day cult in Idaho."
Difficult to imagine such a period ever coming back to South Orange.
FWIW I suspect Amaker is as wistful as we are now about that time.
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