Americans now are in George Orwell's 1984

[cernjSHU]

The US just voted at the UN with Russia and against a resolution condemning Russian aggression invading Ukraine. Trump and his ilk are spinning lies that Ukraine started the war and Zelensky is a dictator but will not call Putin that. What have we become as a country?

Look what the new German chancellor said, it likely the US will not protect and back Europe. We are backing a thug in Putin who murders political opponents and reporters. Trump wraps himself in the flag and talks about freedom yet he backs a murderous dictator on the world stage. This is a sickening development.

 

[HALL85]

The US just voted at the UN with Russia and against a resolution condemning Russian aggression invading Ukraine. Trump and his ilk are spinning lies that Ukraine started the war and Zelensky is a dictator but will not call Putin that. What have we become as a country?

Look what the new German chancellor said, it likely the US will not protect and back Europe. We are backing a thug in Putin who murders political opponents and reporters. Trump wraps himself in the flag and talks about freedom yet he backs a murderous dictator on the world stage. This is a sickening development.

Can we pump the brakes a little bit?

I have no idea whether the negotiating strategy is going to work, but you need to have a dialogue with all of the players and that is happening. And what is the purpose for a UN resolution at this juncture? Are they responding to the membership or are they just trying to be relevant?

From what we know, there is a lot of back channel communications between US, Russia, EU and Ukraine. Probably many weeks or months from resolution, but it would be great to see a cease-fire shortly while things get negotiated.

 

[Merge]

From what we know, there is a lot of back channel communications between US, Russia, EU and Ukraine. Probably many weeks or months from resolution, but it would be great to see a cease-fire shortly while things get negotiated.

The US voting for resolutions which don't really do anything other than blame Putin aren't going to really move the needle on the actual war. But US leadership being unwilling to criticize Putin/Russia and calling Zelensky a dictator is not what I'd want to see from US leadership.

Putin is getting what he wants from Trump so far. What is the US / world getting in return is the question.

 

[HALL85]

The US voting for resolutions which don't really do anything other than blame Putin aren't going to really move the needle on the actual war. But US leadership being unwilling to criticize Putin/Russia and calling Zelensky a dictator is not what I'd want to see from US leadership.

I didn’t see the need to call Zelensky a dictator because it serves no purpose other than to play to Putin. I do have a feeling that Zelensky will step down as part of the final negotiation.

Putin is getting what he wants from Trump so far. What is the US / world getting in return is the question.

Nobody’s gotten anything yet. A lot of meetings and bluster. At the end of the day, it’s what comes out of the final negotiations. We know China is our greatest threat and Russia next, but they are a far bigger threat to Europe. But they needed Trump to initiate things.

 

[cernjSHU]

Can we pump the brakes a little bit?

I have no idea whether the negotiating strategy is going to work, but you need to have a dialogue with all of the players and that is happening. And what is the purpose for a UN resolution at this juncture? Are they responding to the membership or are they just trying to be relevant?

From what we know, there is a lot of back channel communications between US, Russia, EU and Ukraine. Probably many weeks or months from resolution, but it would be great to see a cease-fire shortly while things get negotiated.

Lying to the American public about something so obvious as Russian aggression is perhaps part of a new negotiating tactic on. The part of Trump? Really? This is mental gymnastics. He has been clear what he is doing. He is dismantling American foreign policy, intelligence and institutions. You sit back and wait u til it’s too late. Peace?? At what cost? Empowering Putin, weakening NATO and screwing over Ukraine and the loss of US prestige and trust for our allies?

From blanket tariifs to indiscriminate firings of the newest scapegoat, federal workers, to completely relegating Congress as a powerless branch of government. This is the dismantling of the US.

 

[Merge]

This is the dismantling of the US.

I think there is a lot of truth to that in my opinion which people do not yet appreciate.

 

[Rockaway]

Trump says some silly things to get what he wants.Did anyone on this board think he would not only force an end to war but get US a deal on needed earth minerals.It gives US payback on $350 billion aid to Ukraine and provides security to Ukraine because we will protect our investment.Biden the supposed great statesman could not end war and Trump will end it a few months but let’s not give him any credit for it because he is a dictator and a threat to democracy.Suggestiin for TDS dems please grow up

 

[Rockaway]

Trump says some silly things to get what he wants.Dud anyone on this board think he would not only force an end to war but get US a deal on needed earth minerals.It gives US payback on $350 billion aid to Ukraine and provides security to Ukraine because we will protect our investment.Biden the supposed great statesman g

 

[Rockaway]

Hit button by error twice my bad

 

[NYShoreGuy]

 

[chickenbox]

Lying to the American public about something so obvious as Russian aggression is perhaps part of a new negotiating tactic on. The part of Trump? Really? This is mental gymnastics. He has been clear what he is doing. He is dismantling American foreign policy, intelligence and institutions. You sit back and wait u til it’s too late. Peace?? At what cost? Empowering Putin, weakening NATO and screwing over Ukraine and the loss of US prestige and trust for our allies?

From blanket tariifs to indiscriminate firings of the newest scapegoat, federal workers, to completely relegating Congress as a powerless branch of government. This is the dismantling of the US.

There is nothing the cretins here won't excuse. It's been obvious FOR YEARS (decades, probably; but I was once unaware of this board). But it's still breathtakingly absurd and shameful.

 

[HALL85]

Lying to the American public about something so obvious as Russian aggression is perhaps part of a new negotiating tactic on.

Is the American public part of the negotiating team?

The part of Trump? Really? This is mental gymnastics. He has been clear what he is doing. He is dismantling American foreign policy, intelligence and institutions. You sit back and wait u til it’s too late. Peace?? At what cost? Empowering Putin, weakening NATO and screwing over Ukraine and the loss of US prestige and trust for our allies?

Peace is the priority… we don’t know what the cost or the long term benefit is for that matter yet. If NATO ends up kicking in more, is that a bad thing?

From blanket tariifs to indiscriminate firings of the newest scapegoat, federal workers, to completely relegating Congress as a powerless branch of government. This is the dismantling of the US.

Find better candidates. If the public agrees with you then we’ll have a new President in four years.

 

[shu09]

No, we're not. Who cares? The UN is a meaningless organization.

Last time I checked, Zelenskyy was democratically elected. But then he declared martial law and suspended elections. That is absolutely something a dictator would do. If Trump (or any president) did the same here, he would (rightly) be called a dictator.

 

[cernjSHU]

No, we're not. Who cares? The UN is a meaningless organization.

Last time I checked, Zelenskyy was democratically elected. But then he declared martial law and suspended elections. That is absolutely something a dictator would do. If Trump (or any president) did the same here, he would (rightly) be called a dictator.

You obviously do not know history. Would you call Churchill a dictator? Of course not. He is a symbol of democracy. Yet, Churchill suspended elections in England for 5 straight years during World War 2. You just regurgitate right wing news and whatever Trump says.

 

[HALL85]

You obviously do not know history. Would you call Churchill a dictator? Of course not. He is a symbol of democracy. Yet, Churchill suspended elections in England for 5 straight years during World War 2. You just regurgitate right wing news and whatever Trump says.

And let’s then give Trump credit for putting Churchill’s bust back in the Capital…

 

[SHallguy2]

The US just voted at the UN with Russia and against a resolution condemning Russian aggression invading Ukraine. Trump and his ilk are spinning lies that Ukraine started the war and Zelensky is a dictator but will not call Putin that. What have we become as a country?

Look what the new German chancellor said, it likely the US will not protect and back Europe. We are backing a thug in Putin who murders political opponents and reporters. Trump wraps himself in the flag and talks about freedom yet he backs a murderous dictator on the world stage. This is a sickening development.

So are you proposing we keep funding Ukraine. Let them kill each other, the longer they fight the weaker they get. Not a bad strategy just costing us a lot of taxpayer money. Or are you proposing we cut Putin off and escalate the war by getting USA involved and put an end to this thug. In my mind you need to get him to the table. How do you get a guy with a big ego to the table, Trump is showing you how. Zelensky is going to agree to pay us back the 350 billion he owes in minerals because then he has a partner who will help protect him until we get paid back. We should hope Trump will get them to the table and teach them how to profit from each other and coexist. If he has to call Zelensky a dictator or an Ahole who cares. In my mind doing nothing is not an option.

 

[SHallguy2]

We should all be thankful Trump is the president, had Kamala been elected none of this would be happening. The world sat back and did nothing to stop Hitler and we know how that played out. We also would be passing trillion dollar inflation reduction bills if Kamala was president.

 

[shu09]

We should all be thankful Trump is the president, had Kamala been elected none of this would be happening. The world sat back and did nothing to stop Hitler and we know how that played out. We also would be passing trillion dollar inflation reduction bills if Kamala was president.

Harris would have been a full-fledged disaster. We dodged a bullet, as we did in 2016. Make it three (including an actual bullet) when Trump was spared at Butler.

 

[cernjSHU]

So are you proposing we keep funding Ukraine. Let them kill each other, the longer they fight the weaker they get. Not a bad strategy just costing us a lot of taxpayer money. Or are you proposing we cut Putin off and escalate the war by getting USA involved and put an end to this thug. In my mind you need to get him to the table. How do you get a guy with a big ego to the table, Trump is showing you how. Zelensky is going to agree to pay us back the 350 billion he owes in minerals because then he has a partner who will help protect him until we get paid back. We should hope Trump will get them to the table and teach them how to profit from each other and coexist. If he has to call Zelensky a dictator or an Ahole who cares. In my mind doing nothing is not an option.

lol you guys are really funny. I wonder what FDR would do in this situation? Hmm, no we don't have to because we know he continued to arm England with weapons while the Germans were bombing the crap out of England. Had Trump been President during WW2, he would have said, hey let's give Hitler some more land from France and England. Meanwhile, hey England, we are going to take ur natural resources from you. Maybe we can rename tbig Ben to the Big Trump as payment. That sounds like one hell of an idea. That is some real courage~!

Yes, you continue to arm Ukraine so that they can defend themselves. They want to fight the Russians. the only way they can is by getting US military weapons. Trump is threatening to pull any further aid to strong arm Zelensky into this unholy peace. Has anyone learned anything from history????

 

[HALL85]

Comparing a world war to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is more than a stretch. You’re well aware of the history, conflicts and civil wars in the region dating back to when Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union. And while we shouldn’t excuse Putin, NATO signaling that Ukraine would eventually be granted admission, gave him a reason for the invasion as that had previously been off the table.

79% of Americans support a negotiated to the war.

 

[SHallguy2]

lol you guys are really funny. I wonder what FDR would do in this situation? Hmm, no we don't have to because we know he continued to arm England with weapons while the Germans were bombing the crap out of England. Had Trump been President during WW2, he would have said, hey let's give Hitler some more land from France and England. Meanwhile, hey England, we are going to take ur natural resources from you. Maybe we can rename tbig Ben to the Big Trump as payment. That sounds like one hell of an idea. That is some real courage~!

Yes, you continue to arm Ukraine so that they can defend themselves. They want to fight the Russians. the only way they can is by getting US military weapons. Trump is threatening to pull any further aid to strong arm Zelensky into this unholy peace. Has anyone learned anything from history????

I don’t think any of us know how this deal is going to shake out. Trump is not a fool and will not show his hand. First step to negotiating a deal is to get people to sit down to talk. We still have not gotten to that point. You are worrying about every step along the way as are most people including myself. Think we need to get to that first step before analyzing an unknown outcome. I’m hopeful that when they get in a room together with a collection of mediators they might find ways they can help each other and coexist. Both leaders need a new direction. Had 3 younger Ukrainian guys working at my house last week and was curious to hear what they had to say about the subject. To my surprise instead of bashing Putin they said they totally understood why he invaded Ukraine. They agreed with some of his positions just not the way he was going about his business. They have been fighting over there for years, not sure we/Americans understand the real heart of the issues outside of what we are being told by the media. Personally I’m a peaceful guy, don’t want to see men, women and children being killed in a war.

 

[cernjSHU]

I don’t think any of us know how this deal is going to shake out. Trump is not a fool and will not show his hand. First step to negotiating a deal is to get people to sit down to talk. We still have not gotten to that point. You are worrying about every step along the way as are most people including myself. Think we need to get to that first step before analyzing an unknown outcome. I’m hopeful that when they get in a room together with a collection of mediators they might find ways they can help each other and coexist. Both leaders need a new direction. Had 3 younger Ukrainian guys working at my house last week and was curious to hear what they had to say about the subject. To my surprise instead of bashing Putin they said they totally understood why he invaded Ukraine. They agreed with some of his positions just not the way he was going about his business. They have been fighting over there for years, not sure we/Americans understand the real heart of the issues outside of what we are being told by the media. Personally I’m a peaceful guy, don’t want to see men, women and children being killed in a war.

No one likes people dying in war. But were u this upset in Somalia? Darfur? Serbia? I find it interesting that people just want peace in Ukraine but could care less in other regions of the world. Did you want peace in Gaza? Or did you want Israel to finish the job? Why is ok for Israel to finish the job and Ukraine needs to stop defending themselves?

Don’t get me wrong, peace would be great in Ukraine but not the price what has been spoken about by the Trump Administration. Thankfully, England is trying to sway him. You can’t reward an aggressor and that’s exactly what Trump was going to do.

The reason you feel this way is because Trump tells you to feel this way. Half of our country has deified and genuflect to Trump.

Comparing a world war to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is more than a stretch. You’re well aware of the history, conflicts and civil wars in the region dating back to when Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union. And while we shouldn’t excuse Putin, NATO signaling that Ukraine would eventually be granted admission, gave him a reason for the invasion as that had previously been off the table.

79% of Americans support a negotiated to the war.

First, this is the largest conflict in Europe since WW2. Dealing with Dictators, WW 2 provides excellent information. The rest of your post is a Russian talking point.

And Ukraine has a right to fight for their land against an invader without Trump giving away everything in negotiations. The great Hesgeth gave away critical negotiating points. Again this is what you get when you hire people who are not qualified for the job.

 

[SHallguy2]

No one likes people dying in war. But were u this upset in Somalia? Darfur? Serbia? I find it interesting that people just want peace in Ukraine but could care less in other regions of the world. Did you want peace in Gaza? Or did you want Israel to finish the job? Why is ok for Israel to finish the job and Ukraine needs to stop defending themselves?

Don’t get me wrong, peace would be great in Ukraine but not the price what has been spoken about by the Trump Administration. Thankfully, England is trying to sway him. You can’t reward an aggressor and that’s exactly what Trump was going to do.

The reason you feel this way is because Trump tells you to feel this way. Half of our country has deified and genuflect to Trump.


First, this is the largest conflict in Europe since WW2. Dealing with Dictators, WW 2 provides excellent information. The rest of your post is a Russian talking point.

And Ukraine has a right to fight for their land against an invader without Trump giving away everything in negotiations. The great Hesgeth gave away critical negotiating points. Again this is what you get when you hire people who are not qualified for the job.

I’m really for peace everywhere including Gaza. I’m not for innocent people getting kill. I’m for anyone trying resolve conflicts, personally was rooting for Antony Blinken. If he was working with Bill Clinton or Trump, I think he would have been successful but he was backed by a weak and feeble leader. I’m open minded that’s why I engage with people with a different viewpoints but I believe you are rooting for Trump to fail. People on both sides should be for peace everywhere. I find it interesting that since Trump is for peace, we have people who otherwise would be for peace now calling for continuing the war. The position frankly seems odd to me. I do honestly understand how you might be feeling since I had zero faith in Biden, you probably feel the same way about Trump.

 

[SHallguy2]

Having a guy democrats tagged as Hitler trying to bring peace around the world is a really bad talking point. The more success Trump has the worse the Democratic Party looks.

 

[HALL85]

No one likes people dying in war. But were u this upset in Somalia? Darfur? Serbia? I find it interesting that people just want peace in Ukraine but could care less in other regions of the world. Did you want peace in Gaza? Or did you want Israel to finish the job? Why is ok for Israel to finish the job and Ukraine needs to stop defending themselves?

Don’t get me wrong, peace would be great in Ukraine but not the price what has been spoken about by the Trump Administration. Thankfully, England is trying to sway him. You can’t reward an aggressor and that’s exactly what Trump was going to do.

The reason you feel this way is because Trump tells you to feel this way. Half of our country has deified and genuflect to Trump.


First, this is the largest conflict in Europe since WW2. Dealing with Dictators, WW 2 provides excellent information. The rest of your post is a Russian talking point.

And Ukraine has a right to fight for their land against an invader without Trump giving away everything in negotiations. The great Hesgeth gave away critical negotiating points. Again this is what you get when you hire people who are not qualified for the job.

Ukraine has every right to fight, but does the U.S. have an obligation to fund it with an open check book and support the continued military and civilian casualties?

I’m rooting for peace also with a solution that ends up being acceptable for all parties. I’m pretty sure you’ll be unhappy with any solution, even if it means that criteria. That’s pretty sad.

 

[cernjSHU]

I am hoping for Trump to fail? Really? Failing means he puts our country at risk for further conflict with a more powerful Russia and a weakened US in the future. This is what I am afraid of. We do not want a repeat of Chamberlain’s “we have peace in our lifetime”

However when I hear Trump speak and Hesgeth saying this: “ We want, like you, a sovereign and prosperous Ukraine. But we must start by recognizing that returning to Ukraine's pre-2014 borders is an unrealistic objective.

Chasing this illusionary goal will only prolong the war and cause more suffering.

A durable peace for Ukraine must include robust security guarantees to ensure that the war will not begin again.

This must not be Minsk 3.0.

That said, the United States does not believe that NATO membership for Ukraine is a realistic outcome of a negotiated settlement.”

I am very concerned. This is giving away negotiating chips before talks even begin. Excluding Ukraine from peace discussions is is disturbing. I am only pointing out quite obvious issues with how Trump is handling this. Trump was willing and ready to give up Ukraine. The only thing that put the brakes on it seems to be that France and England have come to Trump to persuade him to do otherwise. Trump has no master plan. When asked if he still thinks Zelensky is a dictator, he said, “ did I say that?”

 

[HALL85]

cern, c’mon. None of us know all the back channel discussions that are happening with Russia, Ukraine, EU/NATO. We are only privy to the public stuff.

You’re basing your negotiation prowess on the public posturing. I I would think you would agree that both Ruby and Witkoff have the chops for this and it’s clear they are doing the heavy lifting behind the scenes. And we see the parade of European leaders coming to the White House over the past two weeks. Have to assume they’re just not here for shites and giggles. All of these meetings are happening with no “Master Plan”?

Russia is not our greatest threat, China is. Russia cannot compete with our military, technology, AI, etc. They are obviously more of a threat to the EU.

 

[cernjSHU]

cern, c’mon. None of us know all the back channel discussions that are happening with Russia, Ukraine, EU/NATO. We are only privy to the public stuff.

You’re basing your negotiation prowess on the public posturing. I I would think you would agree that both Ruby and Witkoff have the chops for this and it’s clear they are doing the heavy lifting behind the scenes. And we see the parade of European leaders coming to the White House over the past two weeks. Have to assume they’re just not here for shites and giggles. All of these meetings are happening with no “Master Plan”?

Russia is not our greatest threat, China is. Russia cannot compete with our military, technology, AI, etc. They are obviously more of a threat to the EU.

We shall see but you have to admit the public statements made by Trump and his people are disturbing. I believe England and France brought Trump back to reality in Ukraine or at least has him rethinking his original plan to totally selll out Ukraine.

As far as China goes, they may be our number one adversary in terms of economics and stealing our tech. But, what most people do not understand is that China and the US are mutually dependent on each other economically. Both must succeed for the other to be prosperous. If the US economy collapses, that would collapse the Chinese economy. Both countries do this song and dance with each other. But, I don’t see military conflict for this reason.

It’s the reason why China doesn’t go into Taiwan. They do not know what the US will do.