Antifa

[Pirata]

During the Charlottesville discussion there seemed to be a sentiment that the Antifa protestors were in the right (as in correct and proper) because they were protesting the Neo Nazi/White Supremacists.

The name Antifa (Anti Fascist) does state what they are against. It masks what they are for, which is anarchy.

The article below is one of many about Professor Michael Issacson's recent tweets characterizing his teaching job as "a privilege to teach future dead cops"

Issacson is a prominent member of Antifa.

After viewing videos of interviews with him, my understanding is that his logic suggests that because the police are armed and willing to defend law and order with force, they are fascists protecting white supremacy.

I find his views quite disturbing. I also find Issacson to be an abject hypocrite in that his livelihood is teaching at John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ents-future-dead-cops/?utm_term=.1502945e18a4

 

[donnie_baseball]

So you're saying you support the white supremacists at Charlottesville?

I'm not serious, of course, but that is exactly how the left spun any speculation that there may have been other malevolent actors in Virginia.

Antifa is no better than the KKK, whether you sympathize with their supposed motives, or detest those that they violently confront (police, conservatives in general).

Berkeley had to spend $600,000 to police an appearance by Ben Shapiro, a conservative thinker and Orthodox Jew. Antifa still managed to label him a white supremacist, making it clear that they don't know the meaning of the phrase past "white..."

 

[SPK145]

Antifa is as despicable as the neo-nazi's/KKK/white supremacists.

 

[cernjSHU]

Antifa is as despicable as the neo-nazi's/KKK/white supremacists.

How is this possibly true? I may not be a fan of Antifa but there is no equivalency. To do so, is ludicrous. How many people has Antifa murdered, or lynched? I believe the answer is zero. What’s the number killed by the KKK, neo Nazis and white supremacists? Your statement is 100% incorrect. These false equivalencias need to be stopped being used.

 

[HALL85]

How is this possibly true? I may not be a fan of Antifa but there is no equivalency. To do so, is ludicrous. How many people has Antifa murdered, or lynched? I believe the answer is zero. What’s the number killed by the KKK, neo Nazis and white supremacists? Your statement is 100% incorrect. These false equivalencias need to be stopped being used.

Wrong. Both groups promote violence, hate, etc. Just because one has been around a lot longer has nothing to do with where we are today.

 

[cernjSHU]

Wrong. Both groups promote violence, hate, etc. Just because one has been around a lot longer has nothing to do with where we are today.

This is absolutely laughable and intellectually dishonest. Time has nothing to do with it. Actions do. These two are not the same. And I do not like nor condone what Antifa does.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Comparing the two in today's world is like comparing colon cancer and brain cancer. Bottomline you don't want any part of either. I wouldn't look at it from the point of view one type of cancer has done less damage historically.

 

[cernjSHU]

Comparing the two in today's world is like comparing colon cancer and brain cancer. Bottomline you don't want any part of either. I wouldn't look at it from the point of view one type of cancer has done less damage historically.

That's ridiculous analogy. Both kill. If you want a health analogy its more like the flu v cancer.

 

[chickenbox]

False equivalences are the present's cop out du jour and the consequences are far from benign

 

[SPK145]

How is this possibly true? I may not be a fan of Antifa but there is no equivalency. To do so, is ludicrous. How many people has Antifa murdered, or lynched? I believe the answer is zero. What’s the number killed by the KKK, neo Nazis and white supremacists? Your statement is 100% incorrect. These false equivalencias need to be stopped being used.

If you want to include the past, the Nazi's, as despicable as they are, don't come anywhere close to the killings of the far left communists and socialists like Stalin, Mao, Guevara, Castro, et al. You know, those groups the Antifa openly admire and revere.

False equivalencies, LOL.

 

[Muggsy Blue]

So you're painting the Nazi's with a lighter stroke?

 

[cernjSHU]

If you want to include the past, the Nazi's, as despicable as they are, don't come anywhere close to the killings of the far left communists and socialists like Stalin, Mao, Guevara, Castro, et al. You know, those groups the Antifa openly admire and revere.

False equivalencies, LOL.

So now you are comparing a group to Stalin, Mao and Guevara. Oh come on. Let's do things equally. Have neoNazi's, KKK and white supremacists killed in this country? The answer is yes- many. Has Antifa killed in this country, No. That is comparing apples to apples.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

That's ridiculous analogy. Both kill. If you want a health analogy its more like the flu v cancer.

Newsflash. The flu kills too. If you want call out my analogy, you can't make a dumb one like that.

 

[SPK145]

So you're painting the Nazi's with a lighter stroke?

Technically yes, a lighter shade of black, communists killed way more than the nazi's.

You're ok with the death at the hands of communists? You think nazi's killed more than communists?

 

[SPK145]

So now you are comparing a group to Stalin, Mao and Guevara. Oh come on. Let's do things equally. Have neoNazi's, KKK and white supremacists killed in this country? The answer is yes- many. Has Antifa killed in this country, No. That is comparing apples to apples.

Come on now, both are equal disgusting threats in America right now, you know, the time we are both living in.

You seem like quite the antifa supporter, refusing to acknowledge what they really are, who they represent, what they really want.

 

[cernjSHU]

Come on now, both are equal disgusting threats in America right now, you know, the time we are both living in.

You seem like quite the antifa supporter, refusing to acknowledge what they really are, who they represent, what they really want.

Not an Antifa supporter at all and I don't think they are little Mao or Stalin in disguise either. I don't believe in the violence they use and the breaking of windows and property damage that they do. However, to equate that with the KKK and neo Nazis is just a tactic of false equivalencies that confuse people into thinking they are opposite sides of the same coin. They are not. The fact is that they have not killed a single person.

However, I find it ironic that here you hate communism yet you are ok with Trump and the administration's obvious relationships with Putin and Russia.

 

[SPK145]

Not an Antifa supporter at all and I don't think they are little Mao or Stalin in disguise either. I don't believe in the violence they use and the breaking of windows and property damage that they do. However, to equate that with the KKK and neo Nazis is just a tactic of false equivalencies that confuse people into thinking they are opposite sides of the same coin. They are not. The fact is that they have not killed a single person.

However, I find it ironic that here you hate communism yet you are ok with Trump and the administration's obvious relationships with Putin and Russia.

Stop. Let's talk about today. Which group is causing more destruction, danger, and costing more for security? That would be antifa. They are absolutely both sides of the same coin currently, antifa is more worrisome, to say otherwise is why I think you support them, or at least have no problem with them.

I don't support Trump on very much at all, you hate Trump and diplomacy with Russia. Would you also hate Trump and diplomacy with North Korea and Iran? A far-left liberal like yourself would seem to love diplomacy. I think we need diplomacy with all options always on the table.

 

[cernjSHU]

Stop. Let's talk about today. Which group is causing more destruction, danger, and costing more for security? That would be antifa. They are absolutely both sides of the same coin currently, antifa is more worrisome, to say otherwise is why I think you support them, or at least have no problem with them.

I don't support Trump on very much at all, you hate Trump and diplomacy with Russia. Would you also hate Trump and diplomacy with North Korea and Iran? A far-left liberal like yourself would seem to love diplomacy. I think we need diplomacy with all options always on the table.

Are the words that I do not support Antifa or agree with any of their tactics is something that is unclear? I don't think so. There is just a big difference between Antifa and Neo Nazis and KKK. You are worried about the cost of security and property damage and I am more concerned about lost lives like those that were murdered in the Charleston Church shooting. Can you put a cost on that?

As far as Russia goes? Is that what you call diplomacy? - Russian interference with a US election. Pretty clear that Russia coordinated with the Trump campaign in getting elected. That is not diplomacy. I do agree diplomacy is so much better than war. Calling me far left is pretty funny as well.

 

[SPK145]

Are the words that I do not support Antifa or agree with any of their tactics is something that is unclear? I don't think so. There is just a big difference between Antifa and Neo Nazis and KKK. You are worried about the cost of security and property damage and I am more concerned about lost lives like those that were murdered in the Charleston Church shooting. Can you put a cost on that?

As far as Russia goes? Is that what you call diplomacy? - Russian interference with a US election. Pretty clear that Russia coordinated with the Trump campaign in getting elected. That is not diplomacy. I do agree diplomacy is so much better than war. Calling me far left is pretty funny as well.

There's absolutely no defense for the Charleston shooting, carried about by one sick individual.

But the antifa wants to destroy all in it's path, same as the neonazi's/white supremacists. Who is more violent at this current moment?

So far there isn't any evidence Trump colluded with Russia on the election, that would be a game changer but so far nothing. Just silly assumptions by those suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Are the words that I do not support Antifa or agree with any of their tactics is something that is unclear? I don't think so. There is just a big difference between Antifa and Neo Nazis and KKK. You are worried about the cost of security and property damage and I am more concerned about lost lives like those that were murdered in the Charleston Church shooting. Can you put a cost on that?

As far as Russia goes? Is that what you call diplomacy? - Russian interference with a US election. Pretty clear that Russia coordinated with the Trump campaign in getting elected. That is not diplomacy. I do agree diplomacy is so much better than war. Calling me far left is pretty funny as well.

Funny you bring up the mass shooting at the Charleston Church. That shooting had a ton of coverage. There was a recent shooting at a Tennesse Church that got no coverage. There are killings in major cities daily that get no coverage. There are many more bad groups than KKK type groups and Antifa type groups. If you are concerned about innocent lives lost Antifa and the KKK probably don't make the top 10 groups to be concerned about in the USA today.

 

[Bobbie Solo]

@cernjSHU once again I don’t know why you even bother. Antifa is a tiny blip on the radar with no backing or power, and whose main purpose is to aggressively confront and stop those far, far right extremists that have been mentioned. Equating the two is a typical deflection and not worthy of a response on here more than an eye roll or lol.

 

[HALL85]

@cernjSHU once again I don’t know why you even bother. Antifa is a tiny blip on the radar with no backing or power, and whose main purpose is to aggressively confront and stop those far, far right extremists that have been mentioned. Equating the two is a typical deflection and not worthy of a response on here more than an eye roll or lol.

Good to see that you are open for debate as usual....smh

 

[Pirata]

@cernjSHU Antifa is a tiny blip on the radar with no backing or power

The seem to more than an eyeroll for NJ Homeland Security.

https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/analysis/anarchist-extremists-antifa

 

[cernjSHU]

The seem to more than an eyeroll for NJ Homeland Security.

https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/analysis/anarchist-extremists-antifa

So is the Animal Liberation Group. https://www.njhomelandsecurity.gov/search?q=Animal liberation group

Any group that has a political agenda and that commits crimes to further that cause , I.e. property damage can be on the list. So are we to equate the animal liberation group with the KKK and white Supremecists? It’s the equating of the two groups is objectionable and incorrect. SPK keeps on saying right now currently who causes more damage.

Again, it’s the neo Nazis and white supremecists. Who ran over and killed an innocent woman? Who stabbed and killed two brave men who were standing up to a white supremicist who was harassing a muslim woman on a bus? These are just some of the atrocious murders that happened this year. Are you going to say it’s just one sick deranged person when they are part of the white supremicist neo Nazi group? This isn’t even a question here. You guys seem to be intelligent but why the resistance to such bedrock truth?

Hoops, please stop trying to derail a discussion by bringing up there are other groups that kill far more than the KKk and neo Nazis. Yes, I am quite aware that gang violence kills more. However, that’s a different discussion all together.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

If you are seriously concerned about innocent lives lost in the last 5 years and how to make a change in the world today focus on gangs not KKK or white supremacists or antifa. Gang violence numbers are astronomical compared to KKK in the last 5 years. If that doesn't fit your agenda and you are deeply concerned about lives lost in the 1800s and early 1900s focus on finding a good psychologist. There's nothing we can do now to change that time. We need to move forward and make today better.

 

[cernjSHU]

If you are seriously concerned about innocent lives lost in the last 5 years and how to make a change in the world today focus on gangs not KKK or white supremacists or antifa. Gang violence numbers are astronomical compared to KKK in the last 5 years. If that doesn't fit your agenda and you are deeply concerned about lives lost in the 1800s and early 1900s focus on finding a good psychologist. There's nothing we can do now to change that time. We need to move forward and make today better.

Hoops, you really have no idea what you are talking about. Your position is lost so you now switch your argument to street gangs which was never the subject of this thread. By the way, I am sure I have done more about street gangs and putting gang members away in jail for centuries. Does that count in your eyes? What have you ever done?

 

[SPK145]

Hoops, you really have no idea what you are talking about. Your position is lost so you now switch your argument to street gangs which was never the subject of this thread.

If you are seriously concerned about innocent lives lost in the last 5 years and how to make a change in the world today, wouldn't law enforcement be ahead of neonazi's and antifa?

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Hoops, you really have no idea what you are talking about. Your position is lost so you now switch your argument to street gangs which was never the subject of this thread. By the way, I am sure I have done more about street gangs and putting gang members away in jail for centuries. Does that count in your eyes? What have you ever done?

I’m not lost. I’m just not cherry picking issues. I’m looking at the big picture not a few isolated incidents. You cherry pick because the grand scheme of innocent lives lost doesn’t fit your argument

 

[cernjSHU]

If you are seriously concerned about innocent lives lost in the last 5 years and how to make a change in the world today, wouldn't law enforcement be ahead of neonazi's and antifa?

Sad that you now twist this into an absurd logic on your part. Equating police to the KKk is sad and disturbing. You are better off staying silient than post such nonsense.

As far as Hoops goes, about 75% of the murders committed by all extremists for the past 10 years are committed by far right wing groups i.e. neo Nazis and white supremecists as well as anti government groups. These aren’t isolated incidents. Back to the original statement by SPK that Antifa is as bad as neo Nazis and white supremecists is just an outright 100% falsehood.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

As far as Hoops goes, about 75% of the murders committed by all extremists for the past 10 years are committed by far right wing groups i.e. neo Nazis and white supremecists as well as anti government groups. These aren’t isolated incidents. Back to the original statement by SPK that Antifa is as bad as neo Nazis and white supremecists is just an outright 100% falsehood.

What percentage of all murders are committed by extremists? Once you get that number you will realize extremists in both directions are not such a big concern in the grand scheme of things. Stop ignoring the fact innocent lives are lost by a lot of bad people that could care less about left or right. We should all feel concern for those lives lost too.

 

[SPK145]

Sad that you now twist this into an absurd logic on your part. Equating police to the KKk is sad and disturbing. You are better off staying silient than post such nonsense.

Nice deflection, you said lives we were what mattered, rogue law enforcement officers take innocent lives, rogue white supremacists take innocent lives, black gang members take lives, only one matters to you, you're only concerned about one faction? Silliness indeed.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

By the way, I am sure I have done more about street gangs and putting gang members away in jail for centuries. Does that count in your eyes? What have you ever done?

LOL how many centuries have you been putting gang members away? So as someone who put away gang members, are gang members or white supremacy groups more likely to kill in today's world? Please do not use your centuries of experience, just modern times.

 

[cernjSHU]

LOL how many centuries have you been putting gang members away? So as someone who put away gang members, are gang members or white supremacy groups more likely to kill in today's world? Please do not use your centuries of experience, just modern times.

Let me explain very clearly. The sentences handed out on cases that I prosecuted on gang members amount to hundreds of years in prison. So, 100 = century. Sorry that you could not understand what that means.
Now, please explain what you have done?

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Let me explain very clearly. The sentences handed out on cases that I prosecuted on gang members amount to hundreds of years in prison. So, 100 = century. Sorry that you could not understand what that means.
Now, please explain what you have done?

I've been volunteering in Newark for years. Has it kept kids from becoming gang members, who could really say. If I kept even one kid from becoming a gang member I'm damn proud of that. Now that I explained that, you can answer the question that you conveniently missed of what's a bigger threat to killing innocent people, gangs or white supremacy/KKK?

It doesn't matter if you put gang members away for 2,000,000 years or didn't do a damn thing against gang members. The answer to the question of who are the real threats to innocent lives is definitely not changing based on what cern has done.

 

[cernjSHU]

I've been volunteering in Newark for years. Has it kept kids from becoming gang members, who could really say. If I kept even one kid from becoming a gang member I'm damn proud of that. Now that I explained that, you can answer the question that you conveniently missed of what's a bigger threat to killing innocent people, gangs or white supremacy/KKK?

It doesn't matter if you put gang members away for 2,000,000 years or didn't do a damn thing against gang members. The answer to the question of who are the real threats to innocent lives is definitely not changing based on what cern has done.

With that logic, islamic terrorists don't kill as many people as gang members in this country. So, why should be worried about them? They are not the real threat in this country. It is an asinine argument.

Again, you and SPK want to steer clear of the original point of this thread that you equate Antifa with Neo Nazis and white supremacists. It just isn't true. This is a false equivalency no matter how many other groups you want to throw into this argument that has nothing to do with the original premise.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

With that logic, islamic terrorists don't kill as many people as gang members in this country. So, why should be worried about them? They are not the real threat in this country. It is an asinine argument.

Again, you and SPK want to steer clear of the original point of this thread that you equate Antifa with Neo Nazis and white supremacists. It just isn't true. This is a false equivalency no matter how many other groups you want to throw into this argument that has nothing to do with the original premise.

You know that is pure bs logic. I'm curious when is the last time we had killings organized by the KKK. Not rogue individuals, but actual organized white supremacy killings. There's a major difference. It would be like saying we should look into all accountants now because the Vegas guy was an accountant. Or Antifa is responsible for the Tennessee church shooting if that guy had any affiliation to Antifa. Even if he did have an affiliation there's no way I would ever say one rogue guy doing something on his own is the result of the group unless they organized it. You can't blame an entire group because 1 lunatic is in some way affiliated to them. Now Islamic terrorists are actually planning to kill people. They are recruiting people to kill. If the white supremacy leaders were intending to kill I'd agree with you, but they're organizing to keep statues these days not kill people. I don't know if you see that as a major difference, minor difference, or no difference at all

 

[cernjSHU]

You know that is pure bs logic. I'm curious when is the last time we had killings organized by the KKK. Not rogue individuals, but actual organized white supremacy killings. There's a major difference. It would be like saying we should look into all accountants now because the Vegas guy was an accountant. Or Antifa is responsible for the Tennessee church shooting if that guy had any affiliation to Antifa. Even if he did have an affiliation there's no way I would ever say one rogue guy doing something on his own is the result of the group unless they organized it. You can't blame an entire group because 1 bad apple is in some way affiliated to them. Now Islamic terrorists are actually planning to kill people. They are recruiting people to kill. If the white supremacy leaders were intending to kill I'd agree with you, but they're organizing to keep statues these days not kill people. I don't know if you see that as a major difference, minor difference, or no difference at all

Wow. I’m sorry. I didn’t know White supremecists, neo Nazi and the KKk are just organizing to keep statues. Didn’t know that they are not a hate group anymore that advocates in their closed door meeting violence against minorities and Jews. I guess I am not on top of my hate groups that turned into civic associations to preserve historical statues. They don,t advocate hate and advocate violence against minorities anymore? It’s just a few bad apples that kill that belong to these groups?

Ok. If this is how you think, no need to keep throwing facts to you. SMH. Bobby solo you were right.

 

[HALL85]

Wow. I’m sorry. I didn’t know White supremecists, neo Nazi and the KKk are just organizing to keep statues. Didn’t know that they are not a hate group anymore that advocates in their closed door meeting violence against minorities and Jews. I guess I am not on top of my hate groups that turned into civic associations to preserve historical statues. They don,t advocate hate and advocate violence against minorities anymore? It’s just a few bad apples that kill that belong to these groups?

Ok. If this is how you think, no need to keep throwing facts to you. SMH. Bobby solo you were right.

No offense, but you may want to think coming across as a less arrogant a-hole and stop parrotting your partisan talking points. Hoops made a valid analogy and you can't seem to get that.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Wow. I’m sorry. I didn’t know White supremecists, neo Nazi and the KKk are just organizing to keep statues. Didn’t know that they are not a hate group anymore that advocates in their closed door meeting violence against minorities and Jews. I guess I am not on top of my hate groups that turned into civic associations to preserve historical statues. They don,t advocate hate and advocate violence against minorities anymore? It’s just a few bad apples that kill that belong to these groups?

Ok. If this is how you think, no need to keep throwing facts to you. SMH. Bobby solo you were right.

1st off you made it about killings not about hate because antifa has no recorded killings. If you want to go down the hate group route here you go. You can't call white supremacy a hate group and ignore the hate of antifa. Antifa is spewing just as much hatred. Where are the antifa peace signs? Why do they wear masks if they are promoting peace, love and harmony? They are a hate group as much as any other, killings or no killings. They do a ton of violence. Go see what they did at Berkley and tell me that was respectful and not hate.

And yes it's just a few bad apples. Google white supremacy killings. You will find there have been 77 killings since 1995. They are doing a terrible job if their mission is to kill people. Do you know how much better a place Chicago would be if there were only 77 killings a year, forget about since 1995. People would be thrilled. It's still 77 too many but wow that would be great progress.

 

[cernjSHU]

No offense, but you may want to think coming across as a less arrogant a-hole and stop parrotting your partisan talking points. Hoops made a valid analogy and you can't seem to get that.

Thank you for showing your true self. This certainly shows your intelligence.