Biden’s First Big Mistake

[cernjSHU]

Pulling out of Afghanistan is an awful decision. We are seeing the Taliban run through that country taking over swaths of area. Soon that country will be back to pre 9-11.

This would have been no better under Trump since he was going to do the same. It’s bad policy and bad for our national interests to have a rogue terrorist state

 

[HALL85]

Pulling out of Afghanistan is an awful decision. We are seeing the Taliban run through that country taking over swaths of area. Soon that country will be back to pre 9-11.

This would have been no better under Trump since he was going to do the same. It’s bad policy and bad for our national interests to have a rogue terrorist state

Agree, awful situation and no easy solution. Thinking we can equip and train military when you have that much working against you is a losing strategy. We should have just gone in after 9-11, taken out as many Taliban as possible and left...and just continue surgical strikes when the intel supported it. Too many lives lost for a mission that was impossible to complete.

 

[shu09]

I support the president on this one. His smartest decision in office so far. 20 years is long enough. Get out and let them handle their own problems.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

I support the president on this one. His smartest decision in office so far. 20 years is long enough. Get out and let them handle their own problems.

Agreed.....the optics are poor though because we just wasted 20 years for the Taliban to take power right back as soon as we left. What a waste of American lives and insult to injury to 9/11.

 

[HALL85]

Agreed.....the optics are poor though because we just wasted 20 years for the Taliban to take power right back as soon as we left. What a waste of American lives and insult to injury to 9/11.

And essentially, all of the people we tried to help and empower are getting tortured and slaughtered.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

And essentially, all of the people we tried to help and empower are getting tortured and slaughtered.

And the people who helped us as informants. It's a bad situation, terrorism will breed there again.

 

[HALL85]

And the people who helped us as informants. It's a bad situation, terrorism will breed there again.

Hopefully we learn from this....what would we have done differently if we got a mulligan? Can't go into these countries that have so much religious baggage and try to train them to defend themselves. I would just use our military strengths (including covert operations) to just take out bad actors as we need. The only problem is how do you collect intelligence to be able to act timely.

Good piece on 60 Minutes last week on Sulimani, why it was important and the retaliation we faced (and how the military avoided mass casualties). Seems like that's the playbook.

 

[Merge]

I support the president on this one. His smartest decision in office so far. 20 years is long enough. Get out and let them handle their own problems.

Yeah this is a tough one. I recall these same conversations when Trump was talking about pulling out years ago.
It doesn't seem like a good decision to leave, but we can't stay there forever.

 

[cernjSHU]

Yeah this is a tough one. I recall these same conversations when Trump was talking about pulling out years ago.
It doesn't seem like a good decision to leave, but we can't stay there forever.

Yes we can stay there forever. We have a small force of what 3000 soldiers the protects that country going into chaos and breeding terrorism. People get confused with Iraq an Afghanistan. We had no business going into Iraq but Afghanistan was a direct attack on our country where over 2000 people died. It is in our interest as a country to stay there as long as necessary. We do not have a big force there any longer. That small amount of troops protect the stability of that country from being overrun by Islam extremists. Who then become a danger to us once again.

Moreover, is that we as a country lose credibility with the world. When we tell other people to stand with us against your oppressors, how are they going to trust us? We are allowing the people who helped us in Afghanistan get killed and tortured. What crazy idea can you have in foreign relations to allow that to happen? It is the same thing when Trump abandoned the Kurds. Our credibility in any future action is damaged because of this.

 

[cernjSHU]

Agree, awful situation and no easy solution. Thinking we can equip and train military when you have that much working against you is a losing strategy. We should have just gone in after 9-11, taken out as many Taliban as possible and left...and just continue surgical strikes when the intel supported it. Too many lives lost for a mission that was impossible to complete.

By the way, I think you are forgetting who we were hunting after 9-11. It was Al Qaeda and Bin Laden. There was no quick end to it until we at least hunted and killed Bin Laden. Afghanistan was a just war.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

Yes we can stay there forever. We have a small force of what 3000 soldiers the protects that country going into chaos and breeding terrorism. People get confused with Iraq an Afghanistan. We had no business going into Iraq but Afghanistan was a direct attack on our country where over 2000 people died. It is in our interest as a country to stay there as long as necessary. We do not have a big force there any longer. That small amount of troops protect the stability of that country from being overrun by Islam extremists. Who then become a danger to us once again.

Moreover, is that we as a country lose credibility with the world. When we tell other people to stand with us against your oppressors, how are they going to trust us? We are allowing the people who helped us in Afghanistan get killed and tortured. What crazy idea can you have in foreign relations to allow that to happen? It is the same thing when Trump abandoned the Kurds. Our credibility in any future action is damaged because of this.

Can someone explain to me.

We have supposedly the greatest air power in the world. The Taliban is sieging these cities and we cant bomb their lines into oblivion? Furthermore isnt the Taliban heavily outnumbered?

 

[cernjSHU]

Can someone explain to me.

We have supposedly the greatest air power in the world. The Taliban is sieging these cities and we cant bomb their lines into oblivion? Furthermore isnt the Taliban heavily outnumbered?

Under the Trump administration, he negotiated a peace deal with the Taliban to reduce troops in Afghanistan and eventually pull out of Afghanistan. The Taliban were supposed to negotiate terms with the Afghan government. Why are we negotiating with a bunch of terrorists is beyond me. the Taliban were not supposed to retaliate and the US trusted these terrorists.

The Taliban already broke their word by retaliating. I agree with you that we need to stop the butchering of people who helped the United States and go back in and back them off. If we have to have a presence there for decades, then so be it. It is to protect us here in this country.

 

[ed odowd]

The only thing surprising about this is that Biden didn’t see Taliban taking over so fast like what happened in 1975.He stated on July 8 that the the country would not fall into Taliban hands quickly because they were not as powerful as North Vietnam army.That being said I agree with pullout it just should have been more gradual with possibility to negotiate some concessions with TalI am
No more Middle East wars.Many people there hate US and their 8th century religious beliefs will not permit them to stop fighting.
God gave them oil otherwise they would starve to death.The one thing I believe we have never leveraged is limiting or eliminating students in the US particular science students in grad schools when countries take hostile actions against US.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

Pulling out of Afghanistan is an awful decision. We are seeing the Taliban run through that country taking over swaths of area. Soon that country will be back to pre 9-11.

This would have been no better under Trump since he was going to do the same. It’s bad policy and bad for our national interests to have a rogue terrorist state

Usa should govern/military control the world as needed?

 

[cernjSHU]

Usa should govern/military control the world as needed?

Pulling out of Afghanistan would be akin to pulling out of West Germany after WW2 around the 1950's and let the Nazis take over.
The US to this day has 40,000 troops in Germany. A country that is democratized and self-sustaining yet we have our presence there for strategic reasons which helps the security of our nation.

The US has over 50,000 troops in Japan. The US has 6 bases in Italy.

If you do not think Afghanistan is also a strategic area of the world, think again. It borders Iran and Pakistan. If you do not think having a military presence is valuable to the United States interests, then you are blind. This is a huge mistake and we will pay for this mistake in the future.

 

[shu09]

Pulling out of Afghanistan would be akin to pulling out of West Germany after WW2 around the 1950's and let the Nazis take over.
The US to this day has 40,000 troops in Germany. A country that is democratized and self-sustaining yet we have our presence there for strategic reasons which helps the security of our nation.

Ridiculous comparison. The Nazi's were defeated by the end of WW2. That's why, ya know, the war ended?!

The reason we stayed in Germany was to counter the Soviets - an existential threat to America.

A bunch of jihadis in Afghanistan sucks, but they aren't an existential threat to America. Most of the Afghanistan mission was completed a few months after 9/11, except for the killing of OBL. Then we stayed and let it devolve into mission creep and got him 10 years ago. Now it's been another 10 years since then. The time to go was a while ago.

 

[knowknow456]

Ridiculous comparison. The Nazi's were defeated by the end of WW2. That's why, ya know, the war ended?!

Cern made an error which you have helpfully pointed out. Can you correct the sentence to make it accurate?

 

[cernjSHU]

Ridiculous comparison. The Nazi's were defeated by the end of WW2. That's why, ya know, the war ended?!

The reason we stayed in Germany was to counter the Soviets - an existential threat to America.

A bunch of jihadis in Afghanistan sucks, but they aren't an existential threat to America. Most of the Afghanistan mission was completed a few months after 9/11, except for the killing of OBL. Then we stayed and let it devolve into mission creep and got him 10 years ago. Now it's been another 10 years since then. The time to go was a while ago.

You obviously you missed the point. You are just so obtuse. I guess I have to spell it out to you. Imagine that the Nazis were still around but underground 15-20 years after being defeated. However, once the US pulled out of Germany, they had the power to sweep in and take the country over by force. That is the analogy.

So having troops in Afghanistan would not be beneficial to the US interests since it borders on hotspots like Iran and Pakistan? That is not strategic? I don't know what your definition of existential threats to America, but besides Japan and England, there has never been a foreign nation that has attacked the US within its borders. However, this country has been attacked consistently by islamist terrorists since 9/11. And, if you think the mission was complete a few months after 9/11, you have no idea what you are talking about.

The mission is never complete. The war against terror remains. Was it just three years ago when a van ran over people in NYC, Boston Bombers, Pensacola shooting of naval officers, what about the the Chelsea and Seaside Heights bomber? The list goes on and on.

Iran is trying to be a nuclear power and Pakistan's (already a nuclear power) more extreme islamist element has its brother back in the Taliban in Afghanistan. The Taliban is a terrorist group that will regain control of Afghanistan once again. That should scare you. Perhaps you should go and visit the 9/11 museum.It might do you some good.

 

[Pirata]

Can someone explain to me.

We have supposedly the greatest air power in the world. The Taliban is sieging these cities and we cant bomb their lines into oblivion? Furthermore isnt the Taliban heavily outnumbered?

The issue is targets.

They don't have conventional lines. They don't have cities and manufacturing plants.

They are a hidden mobile force that hangs out in caves much like the Vietnamese and their tunnel network.

This is a blue chip example where we would like the media to support the party line and get out of there with as much dignity as possible.

They already started to play the Saigon analogy which doesn't do anybody any good other than it makes for great theater.

Instead they will milk it for all they can with controversy innuendo and other b******* to plug their ratings.

 

[Pirata]

On a side note a buddy of mine that I've known for 40 years who is a JAG officer got deployed to Afghanistan a few years ago and ended up writing their constitution when we were trying to nation build.

Naturally he modeled it after the US Constitution and work through the whole process to get them to adopt it.

I'll reach out to him and see what he thinks about this whole situation.

 

[afghan whigs]

This is not Biden's first mistake. He stupidly shutdown the pipeline projects in the US and gave his blessing for the Russian to Germany one. Now he is begging OPEC to increase the supply. The US was the leading oil producing country under Trump. Now we back to begging the middle east. The US is being inundated with unvaccinated immigrants with no rush to stop it.

As for Afghanistan, its been an awful withdrawal plan or lack there of. Military Drones, Helicopters, and other US equipment is now in the hands of the Taliban. Biden is begging the Taliban to spare our Embassy and rushing to get it evacuated. I would have liked to have kept the Kandahar airfield as a permanent airbase but its not practical if the rest of the country is not secure. We needed to not just fight a war there but to change the culture.

 

[ed odowd]

Biden just took trip number 18 to Delaware refusing to answer questions on Afganastan.HHS secretary caught on private talk saying border is unstainoble after citing progress like our moron VP in public.Joe likely headed for the basement since he has no clue how to handle these issues.

 

[shu09]

You obviously you missed the point. You are just so obtuse. I guess I have to spell it out to you. Imagine that the Nazis were still around but underground 15-20 years after being defeated. However, once the US pulled out of Germany, they had the power to sweep in and take the country over by force. That is the analogy.

So having troops in Afghanistan would not be beneficial to the US interests since it borders on hotspots like Iran and Pakistan? That is not strategic? I don't know what your definition of existential threats to America, but besides Japan and England, there has never been a foreign nation that has attacked the US within its borders. However, this country has been attacked consistently by islamist terrorists since 9/11. And, if you think the mission was complete a few months after 9/11, you have no idea what you are talking about.

The mission is never complete. The war against terror remains. Was it just three years ago when a van ran over people in NYC, Boston Bombers, Pensacola shooting of naval officers, what about the the Chelsea and Seaside Heights bomber? The list goes on and on.

Iran is trying to be a nuclear power and Pakistan's (already a nuclear power) more extreme islamist element has its brother back in the Taliban in Afghanistan. The Taliban is a terrorist group that will regain control of Afghanistan once again. That should scare you. Perhaps you should go and visit the 9/11 museum.It might do you some good.

Your condescension is something else. Nice spin on a bad analogy. Then you cite a few random kook attacks that had no international organization. A more accurate analogy would be the Vietnam War.

Now I see why you feel the way you do about covid. You got sucked into Bush's war on terror. You even go so far to say that it remains! Twenty freaking years later! Incredible how gullible you are. 20 years from now you'll be talking about covid prevention, haha.

I've been to the 9/11 museum because I enjoy and appreciate the study of history. I don't need to be lectured on a message board by a guy who knows as little as you.

 

[anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0]

Your condescension is something else. Nice spin on a bad analogy. Then you cite a few random kook attacks that had no international organization. A more accurate analogy would be the Vietnam War.

Now I see why you feel the way you do about covid. You got sucked into Bush's war on terror. You even go so far to say that it remains! Twenty freaking years later! Incredible how gullible you are. 20 years from now you'll be talking about covid prevention, haha.

I've been to the 9/11 museum because I enjoy and appreciate the study of history. I don't need to be lectured on a message board by a guy who knows as little as you.

To be fair Bush war on terror in Afghanistan was legitimate. They were harboring Osama Bin Laden and you had to take him out after 9/11. It took 10 years to hunt that animal down.

Bush Iraq War was bs. It destabilized the entire region.

I dont think we can stay somewhere for eternity where were not wanted, but you're naive if you dont think our withdrawal wont allow radical jihadis to emerge again.

Rinse, repeat, just hope were not attacked on our soil again.

 

[shu09]

To be fair Bush war on terror in Afghanistan was legitimate. They were harboring Osama Bin Laden and you had to take him out after 9/11. It took 10 years to hunt that animal down.

Bush Iraq War was bs. It destabilized the entire region.

I dont think we can stay somewhere for eternity where were not wanted, but you're naive if you dont think our withdrawal wont allow radical jihadis to emerge again.

Rinse, repeat, just hope were not attacked on our soil again.

You can certainly argue that Afghanistan was legitimate, but nothing after that was. And remember Bush said at the time in 2001 - this is only the beginning. People fell for that and some still do, apparently.

 

[cernjSHU]

Your condescension is something else. Nice spin on a bad analogy. Then you cite a few random kook attacks that had no international organization. A more accurate analogy would be the Vietnam War.

Now I see why you feel the way you do about covid. You got sucked into Bush's war on terror. You even go so far to say that it remains! Twenty freaking years later! Incredible how gullible you are. 20 years from now you'll be talking about covid prevention, haha.

I've been to the 9/11 museum because I enjoy and appreciate the study of history. I don't need to be lectured on a message board by a guy who knows as little as you.

You don't know what you are talking about. The war in Afghanistan had to be done. As a matter of fact, Bush made a mistake by not sending more forces into that country initially. He allowed Bin Laden to escape from Bora Bora. If you don't think we are fighting terrorrism every day, then I don't know what to say to you. You do not address the strategic importance of being in Afghanistan. You just want it to go back to where it was so we can have another incident like 9/11. You do not address how our credibility suffers when we pull out and leave our afghan allies to be killed and tortured. You have a very superficial view on things. At least you are consistent with that.

As a survivor of 9/11 who saw first hand what happened that day, I can say your beliefs are naive and dangerous to the security of this country.

 

[SPK145]

1) First big mistake, LOL??? What about our own porous borders? What about lessening U.S. energy independence?

2) Should have been out of there years ago. Biden was right to withdraw our troops, just not in the chicken-shit, run-away-in-the-dead-of-night-and-leave-behind-our-equipment fashion. We are not the world's policeman. Maybe if we protected our homeland more and meddled in others less we wouldn't have to worry about terrorists infiltrating us? You know, the "Defense" part of our "Defense" department.

3) Is our military really all that? We spend more than the next 7 countries combined, we should be able to obliterate anyone. But we can't. Makes you wonder. Way overspend, incredible wasteful spending, military worries too much about diversity and climate change than actual defense, etc.

 

[Hallsome]

Can someone explain to me.

We have supposedly the greatest air power in the world. The Taliban is sieging these cities and we cant bomb their lines into oblivion? Furthermore isnt the Taliban heavily outnumbered?

Collateral damage would be insane

 

[shu09]

You don't know what you are talking about. The war in Afghanistan had to be done. As a matter of fact, Bush made a mistake by not sending more forces into that country initially. He allowed Bin Laden to escape from Bora Bora. If you don't think we are fighting terrorrism every day, then I don't know what to say to you. You do not address the strategic importance of being in Afghanistan. You just want it to go back to where it was so we can have another incident like 9/11. You do not address how our credibility suffers when we pull out and leave our afghan allies to be killed and tortured. You have a very superficial view on things. At least you are consistent with that.

As a survivor of 9/11 who saw first hand what happened that day, I can say your beliefs are naive and dangerous to the security of this country.

Tora Bora, not Bora Bora. Bora Bora is an island in the Pacific.

#history

 

[Pirata]

Lol

 

[jmt6762]

First big mistake? Really?

 

[HALL85]

I think a valid criticism is that Biden needs to address the nation ASAP. The messaging from the State Department has been weak and this is where the President needs to get in front of this. He won’t even address questions at a press conference.

 

[ed odowd]

Let’s be real all Biden will say is it is all Trump’s fault.He is a loser who will never take responsibility for anything that goes wrong.He is over his head and Dems will privately realize this if he lasts four years.Then we get the laughing Kamala.

 

[cernjSHU]

1) First big mistake, LOL??? What about our own porous borders? What about lessening U.S. energy independence?

2) Should have been out of there years ago. Biden was right to withdraw our troops, just not in the chicken-shit, run-away-in-the-dead-of-night-and-leave-behind-our-equipment fashion. We are not the world's policeman. Maybe if we protected our homeland more and meddled in others less we wouldn't have to worry about terrorists infiltrating us? You know, the "Defense" part of our "Defense" department.

3) Is our military really all that? We spend more than the next 7 countries combined, we should be able to obliterate anyone. But we can't. Makes you wonder. Way overspend, incredible wasteful spending, military worries too much about diversity and climate change than actual defense, etc.

Pourous borders? No difference from the last administration. Just more people trying get in. You can say that messaging was a problem which led to more people coming to the border but the border policy really isn’t much different.

Less energy independence. I am really confused about this. What is the argument here? The shut down of the pipeline has nothing to do with US oil production. That was getting Canadian oil to the US. There is no report that we are not producing as much oil in 2021 as we were in 2020 or 2019. So, I think this is a bs argument.

Our military is all that. However, policy wise we cannot unleash the full impact of the military without killing tons of innocent people. That handcuffs us in a gorilla warfare type of war that happens in Afghanistan.

Oh and yes Shu09. you got me on Tora instead of Bora. But you did not address the substantive issues. Congrats on picking up on the one letter mistake.

 

[SPK145]

Pourous borders? No difference from the last administration. Just more people trying get in. You can say that messaging was a problem which led to more people coming to the border but the border policy really isn’t much different.

Less energy independence. I am really confused about this. What is the argument here? The shut down of the pipeline has nothing to do with US oil production. That was getting Canadian oil to the US. There is no report that we are not producing as much oil in 2021 as we were in 2020 or 2019. So, I think this is a bs argument.

Our military is all that. However, policy wise we cannot unleash the full impact of the military without killing tons of innocent people. That handcuffs us in a gorilla warfare type of war that happens in Afghanistan.

Oh and yes Shu09. you got me on Tora instead of Bora. But you did not address the substantive issues. Congrats on picking up on the one letter mistake.

The border policy is entirely different, are you really serious? Many more coming and many more allowed through.

It's not just about the pipeline, it's about more and more lands being taken away from exploration. Trending down to me (although it's still early):

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS1&f=M

 

[cernjSHU]

The border policy is entirely different, are you really serious? Many more coming and many more allowed through.

It's not just about the pipeline, it's about more and more lands being taken away from exploration. Trending down to me (although it's still early):

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS1&f=M

How can you compare production in 2020 and 2021 with CoVid. Demand was less. Clearly during the 2021 demand has been coming back to pre-CoVid levels but production may remain at 2020 levels due to the fact they had to cut production in order not to have a collapse of the US industry. That is why Trump Admin wanted OPEC to cut production in 2020 to end the glut of oil.

 

[TomWall]

1) First big mistake, LOL??? What about our own porous borders? What about lessening U.S. energy independence?

2) Should have been out of there years ago. Biden was right to withdraw our troops, just not in the chicken-shit, run-away-in-the-dead-of-night-and-leave-behind-our-equipment fashion. We are not the world's policeman. Maybe if we protected our homeland more and meddled in others less we wouldn't have to worry about terrorists infiltrating us? You know, the "Defense" part of our "Defense" department.

3) Is our military really all that? We spend more than the next 7 countries combined, we should be able to obliterate anyone. But we can't. Makes you wonder. Way overspend, incredible wasteful spending, military worries too much about diversity and climate change than actual defense, etc.

Trump would never have abandoned people let alone allow them to be killed the way feckless Biden did. Not to mention leave $80M of arms for the Taliban. And the military leadership is more worried about systemic racism. BTW, did you hear Biden call a black man in his own administration "boy"? Imagine if Trump did that!!!!!!!!!

Inflation is thru the roof, we have shortages of many products. We are putting in a pool and has now been delayed twice due to a fiberglass shortage. I paid $12.50 for a treated 2x4. Covid is back because we have open borders. National debt is exploding beyond belief. Crime is surging in many cities. Trump had us energy independent....no more under Biden. Businesses can't get enough workers because Biden is paying folks more to stay home and not work. I can't tell you how many restaurants I have been to that have been negatively impacted by this. Biden clearly supporting the suppression of the 1st amendment for dissenters (i.e. Trumpers). How many political prisoners are still in jail in DC with no charges for the Jan. 6th alleged insurrection. FBI recently admitted they have no evidence! Biden DOJ trying everything and anything to stop forensic audits of the election. If Biden really got 81 million votes (most ever by a long shot), then let them audit all they want......what are you hiding. All of this is pure Marxism.

Oh and Hunter Biden has become an artist selling paintings to anonymous buyers.....can you say bribe?

So if you think the troop withdrawal is Biden's first big mistake, you are part of the problem.