Can't resist. Willard and Maryland go down to Davidson
- Thread starter ivyhillparkk1963
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Agreed and that's why we have to start walking the walk. Samuel stays here and I strongly believe we would have gone Dancing.
10000% agree. Ridiculous that people laugh at others stubbing their toe, while ok that we got our leg cut off.
It never ceases to amaze me that this needs to be said.
This is a Seton Hall basketball message board. Kevin Willard was the head coach of Seton Hall basketball for over a decade. Like it or not, he’s going to be a topic of discussion.
The thread title leaves no doubt what it’s going to be about. Don’t click if you don’t want to hear about Willard.
This is a Seton Hall basketball message board. Kevin Willard was the head coach of Seton Hall basketball for over a decade. Like it or not, he’s going to be a topic of discussion.
The thread title leaves no doubt what it’s going to be about. Don’t click if you don’t want to hear about Willard.
Willard had his personality faults. I will be the first to admit that, but there is a large portion of our fanbase with an extreme false sense of realty. When people criticize his tenure here it undermines what an incredibly difficult job this is.
What Willard did here - culminating in 2020 - was a miracle and I will always be grateful of that.
What Willard did here - culminating in 2020 - was a miracle and I will always be grateful of that.
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Do you really believe we weren't making the tournament that year?
He also doubled our 14-foot center's rebounding output with 11 last night.
Don’t compare PJ to Willard. During PJ’s best years seton hall was a team People dreaded playing. That never happened during Willard era. Was it nice going to NCAA sure but it always ended in disappointment and underachievement.
Willard did a horrible job with the Delgado, deeno, desi senior year… that team
Horribly underachieved. And got bad luck in 2020. He brought us a BE tournament championship and a lot of ncaa berths which seemed like a pipe dream for a while… but you’d think we could have had 1 run there
Horribly underachieved. And got bad luck in 2020. He brought us a BE tournament championship and a lot of ncaa berths which seemed like a pipe dream for a while… but you’d think we could have had 1 run there
Don’t forget swoonuary, that was a given every year starting around mid January till early February/mid February and would kill ncaa seeding
PJ in that 6 year period had SHU on the map. They considered us a legit Championship contender. That was never the case with Willard.
I’ll take 10 points and 11 rebounds from our center position every day. And that’s against Virginia not FDU or SPU.
We were nothing under Gonzo. Same, maybe worse under Willard for about 5 years. Then we won the BET beating the national champion for the title. Made the NCAAs a few times more. Beat Kentucky and other good teams. Had a first team AA.
That was the second best run in my hoops memory. It doesn't compare to PJ. But better than the rest by far.
Not as great as the 18 month period under TA but poof and that was gone. If we were Kentucky or some other huge name his time here would have disappointed. But we're not.
Imo it is ridiculous to not accept that he did a good job and brought respectability back to SHU hoops. He wasn't great. But we rarely are.
That was the second best run in my hoops memory. It doesn't compare to PJ. But better than the rest by far.
Not as great as the 18 month period under TA but poof and that was gone. If we were Kentucky or some other huge name his time here would have disappointed. But we're not.
Imo it is ridiculous to not accept that he did a good job and brought respectability back to SHU hoops. He wasn't great. But we rarely are.
I agree. I’m not one of them though. The way he left was definitely less than ideal, and the first round exits were very disappointing and grew tiresome, but he put us back on the map and brought respectability back to the program. In the end, I am grateful he was our coach and stuck around as long as he did.
Fair enough. I kinda wish the board would take that stance instead of anticipating every future loss for him.
Wasn’t trying to single you out. Sorry if it seemed that way.
I’m not going after any particular poster(s) or anything. I just find it odd that when he’s doing well, it’s met by supposed indifference and ambivalence. But when he loses it seems like a lot pile on. I don’t think it’s a healthy mentality, but whatever. It’s just my take. I don’t look forward to a future of posts describing his every failure going forward. It’s not a good look for us.
That wasn’t the comment made. In the last 60 years how many times has SHU been a program that @NYShoreGuy would define as a good program.
The majority of the fan base and alumni relate an ncaa at large selection as great success...i will make the mark line from the start of the big east era give or take 40 seasons/years you had 10 good seasons, a superior season, and 3 great seasons
i am curious what the 3 great seasons were in your mind?
But your comment was good programs make the tournament 7 or 8 times in a decade. When has seton hall ever done that? Answer is never.
Isn’t the issue with this on going debate, the fact that the posters who comment on this polarizing topic only give you the extreme perspectives.
IMO Willard was a GOOD coach not a GREAT coach.
He had moments where he overachieved when you didn’t expect it. He had some special wins that we hadn’t experienced in a long time.
But he also struggled when the expectations were higher. Chances to advance, chances to be seeded higher, and chances to be ranked higher. Which were facilitated by some flaws in our overall play and team chemistry that reared its ugly head year in and year out.
He has some wins in recruiting, he had some players who outplayed their rankings, and he found some diamonds in the ruff with transfers. But he had plenty of players that fell short of the mark as well in terms of being BE caliber players.
There are just so many different things that you can argue either sides of the topic and be right about Willard. So because of our history it’s definitely good, but I’ll say it again, just not great.
Here is a comparative analysis, San Diego St. has been consistently in the tournament 10 out of 14 years (11 out of 15 if you count Covid). And for the record there was essentially zero historical success before Steve Fisher got there. But they only talk about great seasons here, when they got to the sweet sixteen (2) and the finals last year. When they lost to Florida Gulf Coast (15 seed) with a chance to go to the sweet sixteen…They didn’t say great season making the tournament, they lamented the missed opportunity.
IMO Willard was a GOOD coach not a GREAT coach.
He had moments where he overachieved when you didn’t expect it. He had some special wins that we hadn’t experienced in a long time.
But he also struggled when the expectations were higher. Chances to advance, chances to be seeded higher, and chances to be ranked higher. Which were facilitated by some flaws in our overall play and team chemistry that reared its ugly head year in and year out.
He has some wins in recruiting, he had some players who outplayed their rankings, and he found some diamonds in the ruff with transfers. But he had plenty of players that fell short of the mark as well in terms of being BE caliber players.
There are just so many different things that you can argue either sides of the topic and be right about Willard. So because of our history it’s definitely good, but I’ll say it again, just not great.
Here is a comparative analysis, San Diego St. has been consistently in the tournament 10 out of 14 years (11 out of 15 if you count Covid). And for the record there was essentially zero historical success before Steve Fisher got there. But they only talk about great seasons here, when they got to the sweet sixteen (2) and the finals last year. When they lost to Florida Gulf Coast (15 seed) with a chance to go to the sweet sixteen…They didn’t say great season making the tournament, they lamented the missed opportunity.
Sorry, I have to completely disagree. Getting a power conference program to multiple NCAA tournaments over 12 seasons isn't a miracle. It is the minimum expectation, or you get canned. This isn't a low major like Monmouth or a mid major like Utah State. We are in the Big East. If you think it's a miracle that we had ranked teams and multiple NCAA bids, I seriously don't know what to say. I can't believe your standards are so low.
Does the fact that certain schools within a conference have advantages and other schools are behind within a conference factor in? It’s not like any of us can say if we took the job at Seton Hall or we took the job at Villanova, we would have an equal chance to succeed. Nobody is stupid enough to believe that succeeding at both schools is equally challenging.
Sha is in the same position that Willard was facing. Getting us to a perennial tournament team will not be easy but doing it will be a fantastic job. Getting through the big east annually is not an easy task considering the resource disadvantage.
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If you're right and Seton Hall is at such a disadvantage compared to others, why is it in the Big East?
LOL. There’s plenty of talk that a big state school like UConn has advantages the other schools in the conference. To act like all schools in the conference are on par with each other is just wrong and we all know it. It’s happening in every conference and no conference is kicking out members these days, only looking to add for financial purposes. How many times have we read the Villanova Wildcat$ landed a great player? Creighton and Marquette have much deeper pockets. Thankfully MU didn’t have a very good coach for a number of years. Same with SJU and Georgetown.
I like the two kids, but remember from a ranking perspective they are no different and in certain cases lower than the kids KW nabbed in his last two classes.
Agree, but it seemed like we were dead in the water. Then, Sha and company get two.
I dont compare kw to p6 coaches. I comoare him to shu BE coaches. Which is why it is crystal clear to me that he was successful here
You act like SHU was a perennial tournament team before Willard got here. How can you not acknowledge that what he did here was impressive? Look at it from a historical standpoint. You just might see it differently.
I never believed that. Too much talent to go around, too much opportunity to be on a Big East squad with PT available. Our current young crop isn’t scaring any solid recruit away. And Sha has always been a solid recruiter IMO. I don’t create unnecessary hype by saying he is the second coming of Cal, Pitino, etc when it comes to recruiting, but he did well as an assitant here with landing kids and there is no reason he can’t do so again.
Guess we all can’t resist. Willard/Maryland is the longest active thread on the board!
Willard met the minimum expectations of a high major (power conference) job, hence he stayed employed here and left voluntarily. Getting to multiple tournaments is the minimum expectation at a power conference job. Sometimes it isn't quite enough (see Orr, Louis). When you don't get there at all, you're a failure and you get canned (see Gonzalez, Bobby and Blaney, George). Seton Hall having multiple coaching failures before his time has nothing to do with what his expectations were.
He did a good job here. Why some on this board canonize him and have such low expectations, I'll never understand. Do we want to be a big time program or not? If you don't and you're ok with missing the tournament more often than not, that's a strange position to me but you're entitled to your opinion.
If there is a coach that is going to take us to the next level, it’s Sha. One of our own and one who isn’t going anywhere if he is successful. I’m happy that Willard moved on and that Sha is our coach. It took me some time to be able to say that but I got there.
However, do you even remember how bad it was before Willard turned it around? The people who can’t recognize the success he had here have unrealistic expectations.
I've been following SH basketball for nearly 25 years. The situation before Willard has nothing to do with what the expectations for a high major coach are. You either get it done or you don't. He got it done, but let's not treat him as a saint.
Well, these days it's easier to accomplish than when Willard was here as now you just need to get fans to pay to be a big time program. 🤦♂️
Willard was a good coach who ran a good program and I appreciate his tenure here with 6 NCAA appearances in his final 7 seasons and 2 BE titles, by far our second-best stretch in the BE Era. Unfortunately we came up short in the NCAA Tournament at 1-5 and got robbed in 2020 of a chance. Good luck to him.
is it? A very similar game was always being played behind closed doors. Now it’s just out in the open. We would’ve had Kyle Anderson in pirate blue if this idea of paying players was new in 2023.
Similar conceptually in the sense of money luring players, sure. But this is totally different than the attempts to hide it in yesteryear. The amount of money circulating and the open accessibility to it across the board is exponentially higher.
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