Dawes

[SOpirate]

I’m sure the usual suspects will immediately return to whining about Dawes being the “golden boy” or “not facing consequences” next time he has a bad game, but today is case and point why Sha leaves him out there through his struggles.

Dawes is simply the only player on our roster with the ability to shoot us back into a game in a matter of minutes. And that’s exactly what he did today. Down 10 early with no signs of life and Al ignited the spark that led us to yet another top 10 win.

Dare I say he looked Myles Powell-esque? Incredible game by an incredible kid.

 

[shu09]

He played well today. Still a couple boneheaded decisions that nearly could have cost the them, especially that one late, though.

Look, the guy can clearly catch and shoot. Did that great today. But the bad still outweighs the good in his entire tenure as a Pirate. Just the facts.

 

[chickenbox]

He played well today. Still a couple boneheaded decisions that nearly could have cost the them, especially that one late, though.

Look, the guy can clearly catch and shoot. Did that great today. But the bad still outweighs the good in his entire tenure as a Pirate. Just the facts.

He handled the offense for half of the first half when KR was out. Was more than just shooting.

He definitely makes bad decisions each game. But it's not like others do not or that we have better options.

 

[ShoreGold]

Dawes has to be more consistent. Then the BooBirds will shut up!!

 

[SOpirate]

He played well today. Still a couple boneheaded decisions that nearly could have cost the them, especially that one late, though.

Look, the guy can clearly catch and shoot. Did that great today. But the bad still outweighs the good in his entire tenure as a Pirate. Just the facts.

He did a lot more than catch and shoot today, and his entire pirate career for that matter.

 

[JoePeppitone2012]

He’s made amazing progress !

He’s making some mistakes but not as many and scoring the ball !

 

[shu09]

He did a lot more than catch and shoot today, and his entire pirate career for that matter.

Sorry, I can't get the countless turnovers, dumb passes, and the circus at the end of last year's BET game out of my head.

It's a weird take on your part, to be honest. What I've seen out of him since he's been here has been obvious as to his shortcomings. Just not a fan of him. Maybe you know him personally (seems like you do from the original post and others you've made). So I get that you're sticking up for your guy. All good.

 

[Fishjam]

Credit where credit is due. Al was excellent today! He and Kadary kooked the best backcourt in the BE 44-18!!

 

[NYC Pirate]

Absolutely kept us in the game when Marquette was having it easy. He played a solid game with a couple of mistakes. Actually, Richmond, Wusu and Dawes made some awful plays in the last few minutes. I thought they needed to get him some more shots in the second have, but the strategy was for Richmond to exploit Marquette going to the rim. He gets a very good grade in this game.

 

[SOpirate]

Sorry, I can't get the countless turnovers, dumb passes, and the circus at the end of last year's BET tournament game out of my head.

It's a weird take on your part, to be honest. What I've seen out of him since he's been here has been obvious as to his shortcomings. Just not a fan of him. Maybe you know him personally (seems like you do from the original post and others you've made). So I get that you're sticking up for your guy. All good.

What’s weird to me is that dawes is the only player who gets excoriated for his errors.

Yeah the DePaul debacle was terrible but a lot else went wrong in that game other than his sloppy play at the end. Which is kind of my point.

Some posters choose to zero in on Dawes’ mistakes when in reality he’s no more boneheaded / mistake prone than our other regular players. I mean KR practically tried to gift this game to MU with three consecutive inexcusable turnovers in a row at the end.

 

[JTSHU]

He played well today. Still a couple boneheaded decisions that nearly could have cost the them, especially that one late, though.

Look, the guy can clearly catch and shoot. Did that great today. But the bad still outweighs the good in his entire tenure as a Pirate. Just the facts.

Nonsense. Hes kept us in so many games we could have easily lost. I wasnt a fan of the rushed step back side step 3s all the time. But its hard to find a guy who shoots w confidence. A big issue is guys driving into so much traffic and feel like theyve gotta shoot it.

 

[shu09]

What’s weird to me is that dawes is the only player who gets excoriated for his errors.

Yeah the DePaul debacle was terrible but a lot else went wrong in that game other than his sloppy play at the end. Which is kind of my point.

Some posters choose to zero in on Dawes’ mistakes when in reality he’s no more boneheaded / mistake prone than our other regular players. I mean KR practically tried to gift this game to MU with three consecutive inexcusable turnovers in a row at the end.

He is not. There are many on this team who make similar errors and are called out for it. But Dawes is the biggest offender.

 

[Piratz]

He shot it great today and we desperately needed it. Good for him!

The sloppiness is always going to be there and it's maddening. Question is if he can possibly make it up with shooting. He did today. 👏

 

[Medugorje]

All I can say is thank God for Dawes. He makes some mistakes but so do his teammates. I will take him any day on my team.

 

[SOpirate]

He is not. There are many on this team who make similar errors and are called out for it. But Dawes is the biggest offender.

I’ve seen you’re usually a very reasonable poster but calling him “the biggest offender” is simply an opinion and not based in reality.

 

[shu09]

I’ve seen you’re usually a very reasonable poster but calling him “the biggest offender” is simply an opinion and not based in reality.

It's an indisputable fact. You and I are watching different games if you think he isn't.

Who is, in your opinion?

 

[SHUSA]

He played well today. Still a couple boneheaded decisions that nearly could have cost the them, especially that one late, though.

Look, the guy can clearly catch and shoot. Did that great today. But the bad still outweighs the good in his entire tenure as a Pirate. Just the facts.

also was a big reason for the initial marquette 10-0 run. and had an additional crucial turnover that was luckily called back to shu ball that woudl have been turnover #5. even on his best days like today he contributes to throwing the game away.

he had a good game today, but this is no gotcha moment. without a dre davis miracle bucket this was probably a loss brought on by dumb stupid play.

 

[MTOleBlue]

He played well today and made his shots. That’s what we have needed and what he has not done consistently this year. Also need fewer boneheaded plays but those seem to come whether he is shooting well or not so just have to adapt to those…

 

[SOpirate]

It's an indisputable fact. Who is, in your opinion?

Statistically it’s by far Richmond. He’s averaging 3.0 TO’s a game, while Dawes is averaging 1.9 game. You live with it for obvious reasons, but to say Dawes is more mistake prone is wrong. Plain and simple.

Dre davis isn’t very far behind Dawes either with 1.4 a game and has the ball in his hands a lot less.

What statistics are you basing your “indisputable fact” on?

 

[shupat08]

A lot of people have been hyping Dawes up for 2 seasons in this board and tried to frame him as the golden boy on this team and refuse to point out his faults.

So the obvious counter to that rises up as well. And now we have posters watching games from two extreme positions on Dawes.

 

[shupat08]

Statistically it’s by far Richmond. He’s averaging 3.0 TO’s a game, while Dawes is averaging 1.9 game. You live with it for obvious reasons, but to say Dawes is more mistake prone is wrong. Plain and simple.

Dre davis isn’t very far behind Dawes either with 1.4 a game and has the ball in his hands a lot less.

What statistics are you basing your “indisputable fact” on?

What about Dawes lack of defensive chops? Hand down in 3pt shooters faces, losing shooters through picks, not rotating properly?

This is the problem. People only point out what helps their pre set opinions of Dawes..

 

[SHallguy2]

Bottom line is nobody wants to win as much as this Kid. He needed to play inside the flow of the game. He’s now doing that, letting the game come to him instead of forcing shots. Guys who say players are not getting better under our coach are crazy. Dawes is the perfect example, 10 games from now you will know why he has not giving up on him.

 

[Bluebeard]

We beat back to back top 7 teams at home with a road win over a top 23 and posters want to point out all the bad plays that Dawes made? I’m baffled.

 

[SOpirate]

What about Dawes lack of defensive chops? Hand down in 3pt shooters faces, losing shooters through picks, not rotating properly?

This is the problem. People only point out what helps their pre set opinions of Dawes..

Okay, valid point. But tell me, is Dawes the only player on this team who struggles to defend the peremiter at times? It’s been our Achilles heel on D all year, and fixating on him like he’s the only culprit is such a strange hill to die on.

 

[shupat08]

Okay, valid point. But tell me, is Dawes the only player on this team who struggles to defend the peremiter at times? It’s been our Achilles heel on D all year, and guys fixating on him like he’s the only culprit is such a strange hill to die on.

No, but I tend to think aside from Sanders and Coleman that Dawes is the biggest culprit. That I will say, but all of them do it.

This post I've attached below is why:

A lot of people have been hyping Dawes up for 2 seasons in this board and tried to frame him as the golden boy on this team and refuse to point out his faults.

So the obvious counter to that rises up as well. And now we have posters watching games from two extreme positions on Dawes.

 

[SHUSA]

Statistically it’s by far Richmond. He’s averaging 3.0 TO’s a game, while Dawes is averaging 1.9 game. You live with it for obvious reasons, but to say Dawes is more mistake prone is wrong. Plain and simple.

Dre davis isn’t very far behind Dawes either with 1.4 a game and has the ball in his hands a lot less.

What statistics are you basing your “indisputable fact” on?

lol care to look at usage? and richmonds usage provides MUCH more benefit for the team.

imo richmonds 3 TOs isnt even bad considering his 4.5 assists and 15 pts he averages a game (and the doubles he commands)

 

[shu09]

Statistically it’s by far Richmond. He’s averaging 3.0 TO’s a game, while Dawes is averaging 1.9 game. You live with it for obvious reasons, but to say Dawes is more mistake prone is wrong. Plain and simple.

Dre davis isn’t very far behind Dawes either with 1.4 a game and has the ball in his hands a lot less.

What statistics are you basing your “indisputable fact” on?

It's not about the raw number of turnovers, it's about how costly the turnovers are and the usage rates of particular players. His turnovers are more costly than anyone else and his usage is lower than Richmond. Richmond's raw turnover rate is naturally higher because his usage is higher (28.2 vs. 20.2).

Look at turnover rate: Richmond 20%, Dawes 18.3%. A lot closer than what you make it out to be. With Richmond, you live with a few of his turnovers because he's so important to the team (#1 in points over replacement, #1 in usage). Dawes is the X factor because of how valuable his good play is (see today) versus how the team performs when he plays poorly. He's so mercurial, you never know what you're going to get. If he plays as he did today, Seton Hall will win more often than not. If he doesn't, the opposite will happen. He is very important, hence the microscope on his play and boneheaded turnovers.

Statistics also don't reveal basketball IQ. You need your eyes for that, and what we see with Dawes is quite revealing as to his basketball IQ. Dawes does two things very well - free throw shooting and catch/shoot threes. Not a good defender and average at a lot of everything else. If I'm an opposing coach, I'm telling my guys to stay glued to him on the three point line but also try to get him to handle the ball (take it out of Richmond's hands).

 

[SOpirate]

No, but I tend to think aside from Sanders and Coleman that Dawes is the biggest culprit. That I will say, but all of them do it.

This post I've attached below is why:

I can only speak for myself but I haven’t noticed anyone hyping him up as the savior of Seton Hall basketball.

I get what you’re saying though, people gravitate towards the extremes a lot. IMO Dawes can be a very frustrating player at times, but he’s no more flawed than anyone else on this roster. And there isn’t a better option at the shooting guard position on currently.

It was said coming into the season that we’ll live and die by Dawes, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that his best stretch as a pirate has come these last 3-4 weeks.

 

[hallstorm]

The shot clock violations are quite interesting.

While they’re infuriating, the team is taking better shots and choosing their shots more wisely and this includes Dawes.

He is rarely shooting quick 3’s early in the shot clock. It’s making a big difference and some of the other guys seem to get their game going because the possessions are longer

 

[shupat08]

I can only speak for myself but I haven’t noticed anyone hyping him up as the savior of Seton Hall basketball.

I get what you’re saying though, people gravitate towards the extremes a lot. IMO Dawes can be a very frustrating player at times, but he’s no more flawed than anyone else on this roster. And there isn’t a better option at the shooting guard position on currently.

It was said coming into the season that we’ll live and die by Dawes, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that his best stretch as a pirate has come these last 3-4 weeks.

I also think whatever happened after the Rutgers game and then the upperclassmen benchings during the Monmouth game seems to have changed this entire season.

 

[chickenbox]

he had a good game today, but this is no gotcha moment. without a dre davis miracle bucket this was probably a loss brought on by dumb stupid play.

But you think this wasn't probably a loss without Dawes today?

 

[SHUSA]

But you think this wasn't probably a loss without Dawes today?

he had a good game and was STILL almost a loss with a big contribution from dawes in that department. considering we erased the 10-0 run that marquette sustained when he was on the court, i think its certainly possible we win without him. this game had major contributions from everyone who played.

the defensive intensity was the biggest reason for the win imo. look at the rebounding disparity. we pretty much eliminated any second chance points. i wouldnt say dawes was crucial for either of these.

 

[SOpirate]

It's not about the raw number of turnovers, it's about how costly the turnovers are and the usage rates of particular players. His turnovers are more costly than anyone else and his usage is lower than Richmond. Richmond's raw turnover rate is naturally higher because his usage is higher (28.2 vs. 20.2).

Look at turnover rate: Richmond 20%, Dawes 18.3%. A lot closer than what you make it out to be. With Richmond, you live with a few of his turnovers because he's so important to the team (#1 in points over replacement, #1 in usage). Dawes is the X factor because of how valuable his good play is (see today) versus how the team performs when he plays poorly. He's so mercurial, you never know what you're going to get. If he plays as he did today, Seton Hall will win more often than not. If he doesn't, the opposite will happen. He is very important, hence the microscope on his play and boneheaded turnovers.

Statistics also don't reveal basketball IQ. You need your eyes for that, and what we see with Dawes is quite revealing as to his basketball IQ. Dawes does two things very well - free throw shooting and catch/shoot threes. Not a good defender and average at a lot of everything else. If I'm an opposing coach, I'm telling my guys to stay glued to him on the three point line but also try to get him to handle the ball (take it out of Richmond's hands).

When you’re getting into basketball IQ that’s something that’s subjective. You bring up a good point about usage, but it’s not like Dawes isn’t featured prominently in the offense. He’s often given the ball late in the shot clock and asked to create, naturally that is going to lead to him forcing things sometimes.

Also Wusu with his negative assist to turnover ratio is a lot more frustrating IMO, he just doesn’t get as much attention because he’s not asked to create like Dawes is.

Anyway, you’re correct about his importance and the reason he’s under a microscope. Like I said, you’re clearly someone who doesn’t base criticism on emotion, but some people on here do. There’s just something very keyboard warrior-ish about it that grinds my gears.

 

[shu09]

Thanks, I'm certainly not looking to argue with you, I respect your opinion (and I think you respect mine). No keyboard warrior nonsense from me, I value objectivity and try to keep a level head about everything. Hence, you don't see me jumping all aboard the SH NCAA bandwagon, even though I'd love for it to happen. LOL.

Yes, basketball IQ can be subjective, I'll give you that. But I honestly think it's apparent with the player in question here. FWIW, I am not a huge Wusu fan either and agree with you on him.

 

[SHUSA]

wusu is also extremely frustrating he just doesnt shoot as much. not sure if he had a good or a bad game today. looked a lot slower than everyone else on the court and had the usual bonehead turnovers. hes much better defensively and puts effort in the paint on both ends.

 

[hallwins]

What about Dawes lack of defensive chops? Hand down in 3pt shooters faces, losing shooters through picks, not rotating properly?

This is the problem. People only point out what helps their pre set opinions of Dawes..

He was outstanding today on defense. He dogged Kolack all over the court. Did you watch the game?

 

[shupat08]

He was outstanding today on defense. He dogged Kolack all over the court. Did you watch the game?

I guess you've missed all the other games this year.

 

[hallwins]

I guess you've missed all the other games this year.

Yes discount his role in 3 wins over top 10/25 teams when he closed games offensively and played great d on the Big East player of the year, because he played poorly against Monmouth.

What can Dawes do to change your perspective? I think the answer is nothing.

Honestly, I thought some of you were losing interest in college basketball because of NIL. I guess no such luck.

 

[shupat08]

Yes discount his role in 3 wins over top 10/25 teams where he closed games offensively and played great d in the Big East player of the year, because he played poorly against Monmouth.

What can Dawes do to change your perspective. I think the answer is nothing.

Honestly, I thought some of you were losing interest in college basketball because of NIL. I guess no such luck.

😂 I'm not?

You are actually proving my point about the posters on this board re Dawes.

I also saw Sanders and Coleman dogging Kolek today.

 

[TomD82]

He did a lot more than catch and shoot today, and his entire pirate career for that matter.

He is better at catch any shoot and coming off screens without the ball than he is in the pick and roll and trying to create off the dribble.