Day 200 - He kept us out of war

[knowknow456]

"This man will not get away with what he is doing," Trump told reporters. "If he utters one threat in the form of an overt threat ... or if he does anything with respect to Guam, or any place else that is an American territory or an America ally, he will truly regret it and he will regret it fast."

"I hope they are going to fully understand the gravity of what I said. And what I said is what I mean."

"We want to talk about a country that has misbehaved for many, many years, decades actually, through numerous administrations and they didn't want to take on the issue," he said.

"I have no choice to take it on -- and I am taking it on -- and we will either be very, very successfully quickly or we are going to be very, very successful in a different way, quickly."

 

[Pirata]

Your general point is fair and I agree with some of it, but please stop comparing this situation to the Cuban Missile Crisis. They are not even in the same league.

I don't think I am comparing it. Yes, they are not the same, but there are parallels which have for the last four months been discussed in print, on-line, and television.

To your point, Peggy Noonan's Op Ed in the WSJ on Thursday (MDW's Birthday!) says:

"What is happening with North Korea is not analogous to what happened in 1962, except for the word crisis."

However, even in that statement, she is acknowledging a parallel and a big one at that.

Here is one article worth discussing. It is an Op Ed from the Washington Post from August 9.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...bd5460f0d7e_story.html?utm_term=.20361fa3b649
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...bd5460f0d7e_story.html?utm_term=.20361fa3b649
The gist of it was that one of Kennedy's big fears was the risk of nukes being used due to some miscommunication or accidental action.

If you study the Boston Massacre, that was triggered by a mistaken discharge of a musket. That event contributed to propelling us toward the Declaration.

With Trump, the worry is his Tweeting rhetoric. I like Trump taking a hard stance but don't like the use of Twitter and I don't like his choice of words. KnowKnow has posted his Tweets and they speak for themselves.

I'll let you read the WAPO Op Ed yourself rather than interpret it.

I will highlight one parallel that the article presents.

It talks about the concern that if one missile hit the US back in 1962, it would have killed 600,000 which is more than was killed in the Civil War.

I look at NOKO and see that there are 7 Million people in Seoul, 35 miles from the boarder. There are 300,000 Americans in the vicinity. There are a bunch of Americans on Guam.

One misstep and there would be a horrible result.

But yes, the two situations are quite different and I don't think I ever stated that they were the same.

 

[cernjSHU]

So my point is that you like to tell other people what their point is. You consistent display your inability to make an effort to understand what someone is saying. you seem to like to figth and attack people rather than discuss a topic.

You take things literally when it suits you and bend the truth when it suits you. You state your opinion as fact. You sling insults and innuendo.

My point is that you and you ilk seem incapable of an intelligent discussion with anyone who might have a different world view. than your own.

That notwithstanding, I will respond to your inflammatory retort.



To the extent that I state that Trump will stand by the fire and fury comment, I believe that he will listen to the defense and intelligence community and respond appropriately to whatever actions NOKO takes. I am less worried about his words than I am about his actions. His statement is sending a clear message to NOKO that any and all military options are on the table.

He is not stating that as eloquently as I would like. If you compare his Tweets to Kennedy's address to the nation for the Cuban crisis, Kennedy was much more statesmanlike. Then again, times have changed. I'd prefer to see something closer to Kennedy's words but with a little more bluntness but not as much bluntness as Trump has done.

If you look at commentary on Churchill's speeches, there is a camp that says they were ineffective and perhaps he was drunk at the time he gave them. In the end, Churchill's actions did more than his words.

While words matter, I believe actions matter more.

Funny, I did not attack you nor do anything what you accuse me of doing in the above post. Yes, words do matter and when Obama said the red line comment and nothing came about it, he undercut his credibility among the world. He was rightfully criticized for that by the Republicans. Remember all we heard day and night how "feckless" the President was?

Now we have a President who is getting into a ridiculous war of words. It's so juvenile that he thinks that his attack on a country will be the likes this world has never seen? This shows a fundamental lack of knowledge of history. Blitzkreig, DDay, Battle of the Buldge and lest not forget the dropping of two atomic bombs on Japan. So what is he referring to? The only thing he could be referring to is dropping multiple nuclear bombs on NK. However, I just think he likes hearing himself talk like a gangster thug.

In the end, I don't believe Un will initiate any form of aggression besides missile tests. He knows otherwise that will result in the end of his regime. He wants to have the threat on Nukes to protect against a US invasion or preemptive strike. A very rational thought by him. NK will not start this war.

Also, despite what Trump says will not use a preemptive strike against NK because it risks too many lives especially of our allies in South Korea and Japan. I believe this is all about two idiots who want to talk trash. But nothing will come out of this. More sanctions will be imposed against NK and we will continue on.

 

[Pirata]

In an effort to lighten the tone of this thread I bring up the all time classic move "Dr. Strangelove".

For you young guys that may not have seen it, it is a Stanley Kubrik masterpiece. It is a 1964 comedic masterpiece with incredibly dry and dark humor. The first time it I was a kid and thought it was a serious drama. As I got older, I discovered its humor.

The synopsis is that General Jack Ripper can't get it up and flips out because he thinks the "Ruskies" have contaminated his "precious bodily fluids". He orders an all out nuclear strike on Russia. The movie then plays out the ensuing effort to recall the bombers.

Here is just one of many classic scenes. In this one, George C. Scott delivers a monologue to the President (played by Peter Sellers, who played three roles in the movie).

Again, it is a comedy.

 

[Pirata]

 

[Pirata]

Sellers was also supposed to play Major Kong but they gave the role to Slim Pickens.

 

[Pirata]

I did not attack you nor do anything what you accuse me of doing in the above post

Here is an example of you stating an opinion as a fact:

The only thing he could be referring to is dropping multiple nuclear bombs on NK.

Other than that, I agree with the rest of your post.

 

[SPK145]

Maybe Trump is just saber rattling to bring China to the table? Seems to have worked with the last Useless Nations sanctions vote.

 

[Muggsy Blue]

So you think Trump knows what he's doing?

 

[SPK145]

So you think Trump knows what he's doing?

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.

 

[Muggsy Blue]

Not yet he hasn't.

 

[knowknow456]

Today, per Secretary of Defense James Mattis

"War is up to the President, perhaps up to the Congress, the bottom line is we will defend the country from an attack, for us that's war, that's a wartime situation,"

"We will defend the country from any attack, at any time, from any quarter. Yes, that means for a lot of young troops they're going to be in a wartime situation, welcome to reality.

But it's not declaring war, it's not that I'm over here Dr. Strangelove doing things like that, but “you don’t shoot at people in this world unless you want to bear the consequences.”

 

[Pirata]

8/10/17 - Per Secretary of Defense James Mattis at DIUx:

Full Transcript: https://www.defense.gov/News/Transcripts/Transcript-View/Article/1275373/
Excerpts:

"So the diplomats and the intelligence community I think have characterized it quite accurately, and you see the diplomatically led effort to get this under control gaining traction"

"right now, Secretary Tillerson, Ambassador Haley, you can see the American effort is diplomatically led. It has diplomatic traction. It is gaining diplomatic results. And I want to stay right there right now."

"The tragedy of war is well enough known; it doesn't need another characterization, beyond the fact that it would be catastrophic."

"you need two rails, and we have two rails that are mutually supporting. Right now we keep the diplomatic track out in front, and that is aligning a lot of allies, bringing on board people who often don't agree on all issues."


Video of the above.

 

[knowknow456]

There is concern this topic is not getting an appropriate amount of attention. Following is the most recent tweet I could find on the matter from the President

Kim Jong Un of North Korea made a very wise and well reasoned decision. The alternative would have been both catastrophic and unacceptable!

7:39 AM - Aug 16, 2017
Updates will follow from time to time as needed.