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Dem Debate?

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HALL85

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Jul 5, 2001
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Anyone planning on watching tonight? Personally, I don't have any idea what O'Malley, Chaffee or Webb stand for, so I'm most interested in their positions, leadership style and vision for the country. I'm sure there will be some attacks on Hillary to try to bring her back to the pack, but really hope to see how they differentiate themselves and what they stand for.

There is nothing else I need to know about Hillary at this point, so more curious as to which one Hillary shows up (angry, robot or awkwardly trying to be funny). Sanders is pure entertainment and a non-starter especially now that he is a self-proclaimed Socialist Democrat. We already have one of those in NYC and see how well that's going....

You know Biden will be watching....
 
Of course I will be watching.

No way angry Hillary shows up. She knows the mistakes she made in 2008.
My bet is that she is going to try to appear steadfast on all of her answers. She is probably going to get attacked by O'Malley the most and is going to have prepared answers on pretty much every possible criticism. I doubt she will go after anyone on the stage like she did with Obama. She is just going to present her case as to why she is the best candidate to lead the party.

I will not be voting for her, but I expect she will do very well.

Sanders is performing much better than I expected. I watched some of the problem solver convention yesterday and in the panel afterwards, some of the attendees noticed that there is a similar tone between Sanders and Trump. He has built his support on the same grassroots / social media methods that helped Obama. Now he has to introduce himself with the elderly and minority populations. Although a little too far left for me, I am still glad he is running because he has pulled Hillary (who I still expect will be our next president) to the left with him. I am not counting him out yet at all. His policies have broad support and he could be a problem for Hillary if he can attract minority voters.

Webb is the guy I hope can build some momentum out of the debate. I think in a normal year without a favorite to win 2 years away from the election, he could have been a much stronger candidate. I think he will shy away from attacking Hillary and could be trying out for the VP spot. I still think Virginia will be the most important state to win for democrats in 2016, so if Webb can perform well and polls in Virginia are showing they like him then he is the VP pick. Otherwise I expect McAuliffe as her VP.

O'Malley is easily likable for most people, but he is going to be the one to attack the patry and Hillary to make a splash. Not sure how that will play.

Chaffee - I got bored just typing his name. He needs to show some charisma. I expect he will be the first to drop out.

I think Biden knows this is Hillary's to lose, so he will only enter the race if he gets win that something from her e-mail is going to be released that will devastate her chances.
 
I will DVR in case something interesting shows up - otherwise I will be watching baseball. Other than Clinton and Sanders, I couldn't even begin to separate the other guys so this may be their one chance to differentiate from each other.

I have been waiting for something juicy to pop out of the email scandal but so far it has been mostly disappointing. McCarthy may have inadvertently helped her with his comments on the Benghazi investigation.
 
knowknow456 said:
McCarthy may have inadvertently helped her with his comments on the Benghazi investigation.
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I think he definitely did. Her favorability numbers have even started to show improvement.


imrs.php
 
I really wish they had allowed Larry Lessig into the debate. He has no shot, but his issue (getting money out of politics/subsidized elections) is the only issue that truly matters, so it would be nice to force the debate to happen.
 
I'm interested to hear what Jim Webb has to say. He is the only moderate (Blue dog Dem????? if there is still such a thing) in the group and it will be interesting to see how he frames his comments relative to the far left tilt of the democrat comments / discussions./ talking points so far. Echoing a comment above, he might make a good VP choice if the Dems want to put some balance into a ticket that presumably would be Hillary or Bernie at this point.
 
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Bobbie Solo said:
He has no shot, but his issue (getting money out of politics/subsidized elections) is the only issue that truly matters, so it would be nice to force the debate to happen.
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I agree that they probably should have allowed Lessig to participate, but I see a campaign finance debate happening anyway. Isn't that one of Bernie's main positions as well?
 
Yes it is. But Bernie has been a part of the current system where they spend all their time begging for money and it's worked out pretty well for him. I love the guy, but I'm not completely sold that he would truly do something to change it if he were elected. He has skin in the game already. If I had to bet on it, I'd say he is sincere about changing the system, but still. We KNOW Lessig is based on the way his campaign has been formed and ran so far. He would pull that debate topic into full view in a way the rest wouldn't.

Hilarious that PiratePride thinks Hillary isn't a moderate. Prolly the same type of thinking that casts Obama as a liberal when he leans so far right or at least center on most issues. She is the most hawkish of the Dems running, and stands to the right of Rand Paul on foreign policy. When all is said & done and she unfortunately wins the presidency, it will simply be more of the same establishment politics and policies that we've seen since 1988 or 1992, depending on your perspective. And you better believe she will scale up our military involvement overseas, at the very least for fears of seeming weak bc she's a woman.

At least I feel confident in the fact that she will fight strongly for women's rights here & abroad, as well as putting left-leaning people on the Supreme Court.
 
It's all relative isn't it Bobbie? Obama leaning right?????? now THAT'S hilarious.

BTW, what IS Hillary's stand on foreign policy? Hope it doesn't entail hitting anymore reset buttons. We see where THAT got us.
 
Spliting time between the debate and the Mets/Dodgers game.

From what I've seen, Webb and Clinton are the only legitimate candidates on the stage. It's unfortunate because Webb's poll numbers are so low but maybe tonight bumps him up a little. I doubt that though.

Sanders is a joke. Free college, free drugs, free everything! Incredibly naïve for a man who has been around as long as he has.

O'Malley is the Cruz of the Democratic party. A cartoon character and so fake.

Chafee is the Rand Paul of the Democrats. Totally irrelevant, unprepared and awkward.

VP Biden: PLEASE RUN!!
 
Felt bad for Webb. He really didn't perform well, but was never really given the opportunity. There were multiple questions where he and Chafee were completely ignored.

Other than Webb, it played out pretty much as I expected.

Hillary performed very well overall. A couple missteps, but nothing that will hurt her.

Bernie needed to introduce himself to the people who hadn't heard of him or his policies and I think he did that very well. I think his main messages will play very well with most people left of center.

O'Malley was decent enough but way too much pandering. He went after Hillary a few times but I don't think anything really landed.

Chafee - Wow he was horrific. I can't believe he admitted voting for something he didn't know anything about. There is no excuse for that at all.

Anderson Cooper offered some difficult questions and followed up when they were avoided. Good job by him for that but again, ignoring Webb for most of the debate really bothered me.
 
Cooper did a great job of being tough, or at least attempting to. No problem with that at all. But where were those attempts from Tapper during the Republican debates? No no, we must handle the conservatives with kid gloves for fear of them whining about it later. Ridiculous. CNN treated them all very lightly & instead hoped they'd all beat each other up (which kind of happened) instead of being good journalists.

Sad that they bring in a Latino journalist, and keep his topics to immigration & weed. Way to bust apart those stereotypes CNN.

Don Lemon needs to get off my television. Can't take that moron seriously, and should not be involved in a serious debate amongst adults.

Not ONE question about campaign finance reform, despite it polling very very high among voters. Sad how in the pocket of lobbyists the networks are (in addition to the politicians, obviously.)

Agree with everyone else that Sanders & Hillary did well, the other 3 not so much. Webb was right about being snubbed for time, but the minute you complain about it, you look really bad. No one likes a complainer. He also looked more like a moderate Republican than a Democrat, so good luck with that dude.

I didn't think O'Malley came off as slimy as everyone is saying, but maybe I need to watch again. Hillary has been pulled VERY far to the left, which is fantastic. I just don't believe she'll actually do what she says with some of the more progressive stances she is taking now. She is a hawkish, establishment candidate that is deep in the pocket of Wall Street. I think she'll pull the same shit Obama pulled once he got in office.
 
shu09 said:
Spliting time between the debate and the Mets/Dodgers game.

From what I've seen, Webb and Clinton are the only legitimate candidates on the stage. It's unfortunate because Webb's poll numbers are so low but maybe tonight bumps him up a little. I doubt that though.

Sanders is a joke. Free college, free drugs, free everything! Incredibly naïve for a man who has been around as long as he has.

O'Malley is the Cruz of the Democratic party. A cartoon character and so fake.

Chafee is the Rand Paul of the Democrats. Totally irrelevant, unprepared and awkward.

VP Biden: PLEASE RUN!!
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Pretty much the way I would describe it, especially your descriptions of Chafee and O'Malley. Funny that the party of inclusion can only prop up five, old, white, rich candidates, with another (Biden) waiting in the wings.

I give Sanders credit because he is passionate and he genuinely believes what he says, although his views are totally out of touch with the exception of campaign reform. Is it me, or does Bernie sound like the George Steinbrenner character (Larry David) from Seinfeld?

Webb is credible but I think struggled a bit being on a stage like that for the first time. He'll get better, but it doesn't seem like it'll matter

Hillary stuck to her sound-bytes but nauseating the way she plays the female card in every question. I thought it interesting and funny that she called the pharmaceutical industry her greatest "enemy". That would be the industry that employs millions of Americans, most of which are college-educated, provides life saving or quality of life medications, supports most of our 401K retirement plans and has one of the highest percentage of female workers of any industry.

CNN? Came across like more of an entertainment production than debate. Video message from Obama begging voters to continue to vote Democrat, endless commercials and Cheryl Crow singing the National Anthem? The first question wasn't asked until exactly 30 minutes after the debate started!

09, as you said, free, free, free was the underlying theme along with shameless pandering for the African American, Hispanic and LGBT vote. All the free stuff AND expanding Social Security and paid family leave...great...I guess we can expect that $19 trillion deficit to double or triple, but that doesn't matter.

Hillary's greatest threat at this point is the FBI. She can make it sound like a partisan issue, but I don't think the FBI is part of the Republican party. From what I saw, there is little competition to derail her last night.

I was hoping for better from Webb, O'Malley and Chaffee, but came away underwhelmed from that group.
 
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underwhelmed... is a good overall one word summary.

I was pulling for Webb and I liked much of what he had to say. He was the only one who gave an honest answer to the "Do Black Lives Matter" question and his answer to the most pressing issue question was on point and delivered his three part answer crisply, concisely and accurately in my opinion. I particularly liked his answer to the question about what would the candidates do differently than Obama. Paraphrasing, he would not use executive privilege so cavalierly, but make every effort to go to congress. He was the only candidate in my opinion who gave me confidence that he would work both sides of the aisle. So unlike our current POTUS.
He didn't pander to any focus groups in his responses and seemed to give honest, straight talk type answers.

He does need to improve his on stage demeanor, though. He looked uncomfortable and his face was strained .... . Someone said above... that he shouldn't have complained about time.... and I agree.

His poll numbers I think will get a boost... but not nearly enough to make a difference.

One thing that we did learn last night.... Clinton admitted to being a progressive. It was .. do you classify yourself as a moderate or progressive.... this was after Bernie Sanders just made one of his impassioned socialist statements and got a nice applause........ her answer.. well its clear.. after she hemmed and hawed us a bit .......I'm a progressive.
 
After hemming and hawing for a moment, she also stumbled before saying "Progressive" ... I truly thought she was going to say "I'm a moderate Progressive".

That would have been hilarious.
 
And I understand Webb got less time then everyone else... But he then proceeded to spend all of his allotted time arguing about how he was getting no time.

That was pretty entertaining.

I like a few of Chafee's ideas... But he is super awkward.
 
HALL85 said:
Pretty much the way I would describe it, especially your descriptions of Chafee and O'Malley. Funny that the party of inclusion can only prop up five, old, white, rich candidates, with another (Biden) waiting in the wings.

A Jewish socialist was on the stage. The dems are probably nominating the first women to ever run for pres? And they are replacing the first black pres. That seems kind of inclusive to me. lol
Click to expand...
 
Hillary's a woman?? I think we need to do some DNA testing....lol
 
Merge said:
Bernie needed to introduce himself to the people who hadn't heard of him or his policies and I think he did that very well. I think his main messages will play very well with most people left of center.
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Which is what, GET OFF MY LAWN???

He's an old, whacko, crank.
 
Maybe she should be asked to unzip her pants to see whether she has a penis. Would that be enough or would you still need DNA confirmation?
 
Hillary's a woman?? I think we need to do some DNA testing....lol
Muggsy Blue said:
Maybe she should be asked to unzip her pants to see whether she has a penis. Would that be enough or would you still need DNA confirmation?
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Unzip her pants...The thought of it just made me throw up dinner...thanks:)

But, wait, Caitlin has a penis and she's a woman, right?
 
SPK145 said:
Which is what, GET OFF MY LAWN???

He's an old, whacko, crank.
Click to expand...

It's get money out of the political process and reduce income inequality. I know you don't agree with him, I don't even agree with him on some of his specifics but his message does resonate with people as evidenced by the massive crowds that he attracts. Now he has had a chance to sell his message to a broader audience. We'll see how it plays.
 
Bernie basically plays to the Occupy Wall Street crowd. If he focused more on campaign reform he would broaden his base...wealth redistribution and only black lives matter not resonating with anyone who doesn't protest for a living.
 
HALL85 said:
If he focused more on campaign reform he would broaden his base...wealth redistribution and only black lives matter not resonating with anyone who doesn't protest for a living.
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He did focus on it at the debate. CNN is at fault there for not focusing on it as that is an issue which clearly differentiates the candidates.

Clearly though his message is resonating. He has more supporters than Trump and brings out a bigger crowds than anyone.
 
Merge said:
He did focus on it at the debate. CNN is at fault there for not focusing on it as that is an issue which clearly differentiates the candidates.

Clearly though his message is resonating. He has more supporters than Trump and brings out a bigger crowds than anyone.
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Blaming the media? I thought only Republicans did that...lol. I actually think Bernie has hit his ceiling much like Trump, with the only difference is there are probably more working class people (Trump) that Occupy Wall Streeters (Sanders). Neither will get the nomination, but they have found an audience for sure.
 
I don't expect either one to get the nomination. I'm shifting away from Jeb towards Rubio on the right. I still expect Hillary on the left but the crowds sanders has been getting reminds me a lot of Obama in 2008... He also has very little minority support so there is actually a lot of room for him to build more support.
 
NFW does Rubio get the nod. How many polls won, and by what percentage are needed till people stop saying Trump is not going to win. He is DOMINATING. BTW, I am not a supporter of his (my liberal wife is). But he dominates the news every day and has hardly spent any money.

I wonder if Trump's success will spur Blumberg to run? I know he thought about it as a third party candidate and was sure the odds are too stacked against a third party winning.
 
Sorry, Trump is only dominating because of the size of the field. Once candidates start dropping the other voters will pick a party line candidate.

I'm not saying it's impossible but most prediction markets have his chances around 10%. Jeb and rubio's odds are 3 times better right now... Even with Trumps large lead in polling.
 
Merge said:
the crowds sanders has been getting reminds me a lot of Obama in 2008....
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Actually for those who remember Sanders campaign reminds me a lot more of Gene McCarthy's anti-war crusade of 1968 and the campus battle cry of "Keep Clean for Gene" for the throngs of students joining his bandwagon.

The eventual Dem candidate Hubert Humphrey was given the nomination despite winning zero primaries.

Tom K
 
Since Hillary was Secretary of State and was involved in at least some of our current foreign policy in the Mideast and elsewhere globally, why were there no questions during the debate (if you can call it a "debate"-- BTW, who were those guys on stage with her?????????) about the current chaos in the Mideast? Why no questions about the 2012 Benghazi attack, which Hillary's and the POTUS' decisions resulted in Americans being killed, why no questions about the emails, etc. Why were the emails deleted in the first place? Why all softball questions? The so-called "debate" was a joke. I will admit that Hillary is good at "packaged" questions however, catch her off-guard, ask her a question she is not expecting, and the true Hillary comes out because she cannot remember all of her lies. The Clinton Campaign, the Democratic/Liberal Party, my friends on this board etc., will spin it to support their positions however, if you look at the facts, Hillary was the worst Secretary of State this country has ever had, even her supporters have difficulty naming her specific accomplishments while she was Secretary of State. This is a pattern with Hillary, she would sell her soul, do or say anything, flip-flop on her positions, (which she is beginning to do) etc., to reach her ultimate goal. For the future of this country, I pray it does not happen.

Spin Away...
 
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I do not like Hillary Clinton and I will never vote for her but wow, talk about paranoia.
 
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Say what you want about Hillary Clinton's performance as Sect of State but there have been two books that came out written by former Secretaries of Defense: Robert Gates and Leon Panetta. Both were critical of President Obama's foreign policy decisions but both praised Hillary Clinton performance.

Tom K
 
shu09 said:
I do not like Hillary Clinton and I will never vote for her but wow, talk about paranoia.
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Conservative republicans can be critical of foreign policy under Obama/Clinton given the tremendous positive impact the 8 years under Bush had on the US and the world. lofl Nary a peep in those years. And dems were too scared to do what they may have thought was sane cause they were afraid to be branded unpatriotic in the aftermath of 911, which surely would have happened. I don't think Obama has done a good job with foreign policy, but he is like a carpenter working in a room filled with expensive glass and he isn't allowed to tmove them, so he can only hope nothing falls when he hammers in a nail.
 
To tag on to your points, we can probably look back at the last 16 years (Bush/Obama) and find a lot of fault with the strategy and execution in our foreign policy. These are volatile times and we are dealing with a number of destabilized areas. Quite frankly, I would love to see one of these candidates step up and articulate an overall strategy vs. tactics and platitudes. Strategy can change, but everything we have done over the last 16 years has been in a reactive mode or done in a partisan fashion. As a Secretary of State, you are pretty much being told what to do, so hard to either be critical or give credit of accomplishments, unless you totally "f" something up. We screwed up in Benghazi. Was that all HC's fault? I don't know, but that was an unprecedented disaster.

One of our Directors at the company I work is a Syrian immigrant who came here 15 years ago, couldn't speak a word of English and took a job as a lab tech. Self-taught English, hard working, part of the community, great guy. He is obviously most concerned about ISIS...taking leaders down like Quadafi, Hussein and Assad just destabilize the region and create a vacuum for ISIS. He indicated that there is very little difference between the rebels and ISIS in Syria, because the both want to take Assad out and move between both organizations based on where they think they have the best chance. He feels arming the rebels is like handing weapons to ISIS.

If there was a time this country needed leadership....
 
The "Vietnamization" of the VN War is a phrase guys like me grew up with. People got rich off that policy I am sure, and American kids got killed and maimed while we were doing it. And it didn't work. And now we talk about the failure of the Iraqis we arm, or Afghanis, to actually defend themselves. And we express shock that the jeeps and guns we supplied them with are being used by ISIS or the bad guy of the month. Why don't we wake the F up? SPK's idol (Ron Paul) got attacked by Giuliani for suggesting that our intrusive foreign policies have something to do with the situation in the Middle East. And with the chaos that seems to surround our drone experience, I wonder if Middle East citizens will ever see us as anything but the enemy.
 
HALL85 said:
Quite frankly, I would love to see one of these candidates step up and articulate an overall strategy vs. tactics and platitudes
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Two candidates have articulated a relatively clear overall strategy.

Trump strategy - Why are we there? Why do we have to do everything. Let them kill each other .(Source - 60 minutes)

Christie - I will call up Putin and tell him these are our no fly zones. Cross them and we will shoot you down. I will not back down.

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/10/christie_on_syria_id_shoot_down_russian_jets_commi.html
 
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