difference between the NBA and NCAA now ???

[IronKaz1]

anybody? it used to be a priveledge to get a college scholarship and goto school for free via your talent, now its like who cares about your degree haha Ed O Bannon your mind was in the right place but what you did what ruin the purity of amateur athletics prior to the "PROS"......

 

[jack 1970]

It's a mess.$$ can be great but its distorted college sports.Unintended consequences.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

It's a mess.$$ can be great but its distorted college sports.Unintended consequences.

The money isn’t the problem. The no transfer rule is the problem.

People would be poaching players like crazy if there was no money involved and you can transfer without sitting out. Money just makes it crazier.

 

[jack 1970]

The money isn’t the problem. The no transfer rule is the problem.

People would be poaching players like crazy if there was no money involved and you can transfer without sitting out. Money just makes it crazier.

Both are problems.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

anybody? it used to be a priveledge to get a college scholarship and goto school for free via your talent, now its like who cares about your degree haha Ed O Bannon your mind was in the right place but what you did what ruin the purity of amateur athletics prior to the "PROS"......

Why is this ed obannon's issue? A game franchise was using likeness of past players and he did something about it

 

[Bluebeard]

Why is this ed obannon's issue? A game franchise was using likeness of past players and he did something about it

So if someone is using your likeness, THEN they should get paid or NIL. Should have been the ruling. His suit after many years, has created this mess of recruits naming their price to play. The rollout without guidelines was very bad, add the nositout and it’s a complete shitshow.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

So if someone is using your likeness, THEN they should get paid or NIL. Should have been the ruling. His suit after many years, has created this mess of recruits naming their price to play. The rollout without guidelines was very bad, add the nositout and it’s a complete shitshow.

No not his fault...the lack of foundation out of this is the root cause.

 

[PJVegas]

Why is this ed obannon's issue? A game franchise was using likeness of past players and he did something about it

UCLA selling clothing with his name & # certainly had nothing to it with it. What?
Conversely, receiving room/board, tuition etc for 4 years to earn a degree is not fair? How dare a school try to recoup some of that by selling product.
Solution: player gets a % of any profits for using their name. NIL is ridiculous solution. Dad.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

O'Bannon v. NCAA, No. 14-16601 (9th Cir. 2015)

Plaintiff O'Bannon filed suit against the NCAA and CLC, alleging that the NCAA’s amateurism rules, insofar as they prevented student-athletes from being compensated for the use of their names, images, and likenesses (NILs), were an illegal restraint of trade under Section 1 of the Sherman Act...

law.justia.com

 

[NYShoreGuy]

Ed O’Bannon’s Nephew Joins House v. NCAA Settlement Objectors

Chuck O'Bannon Jr. has followed in uncle Ed O'Bannon's footsteps when it comes to countering the NCAA.

www.sportico.com

 

[NYShoreGuy]

Ed O’Bannon’s Nephew Joins House v. NCAA Settlement Objectors

Chuck O'Bannon Jr. has followed in uncle Ed O'Bannon's footsteps when it comes to countering the NCAA.

www.sportico.com

 

[PJVegas]

Why is this ed obannon's issue? A game franchise was using likeness of past players and he did something about it

UCLA dared to sell clothing with his name & #, probably to recoup some of the cost of his room, board, tuition etc. based on his ability. How dare they?

In return, he also earned a degree!
Using his name, without permission, obviously presents a problem. Solution - agree to percentage of the profits, if any.
NIL created something that has changed the nature of the game and destroyed student athletes & maybe college athletics in general.

 

[PJVegas]

Why is this ed obannon's issue? A game franchise was using likeness of past players and he did something about it

UCLA dared to sell clothing with his name & #, probably to recoup some of the cost of his room, board, tuition etc. based on his ability. How dare they?

In return, he also earned a degree!
Using his name, without permission, obviously presents a problem. Solution - agree to percentage of the profits, if any.
NIL created something that has changed the nature of the game and destroyed student athletes & maybe college athletics in general.

 

[dehere23]

Speaking of UCLA, they just landed Donovan Dent apparently. So guess he’s not following junior to X.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

Ed O’Bannon’s Nephew Joins House v. NCAA Settlement Objectors

Chuck O'Bannon Jr. has followed in uncle Ed O'Bannon's footsteps when it comes to countering the NCAA.

www.sportico.com

 

[Seton75]

UCLA selling clothing with his name & # certainly had nothing to it with it. What?
Conversely, receiving room/board, tuition etc for 4 years to earn a degree is not fair? How dare a school try to recoup some of that by selling product.
Solution: player gets a % of any profits for using their name. NIL is ridiculous solution. Dad.

the players generate a shitload of dough and they deserve a piece of the pie. if a chemistry student created a product that generated money they get the money and no one would care. why not athletes. if any of their nil were truly marketable they deserve to get comoensated. the real nil most would earn is minimal. NIL as it stands is ridiculous. it is pfp. and pairing the idiotic nil rules with unlimited transfers is incredibly dumb. dumb and dumber.

Without BE Seton Hall is a far lesser school. cant ignore that either. the school i attended was far less respected than the shu of today. my shu degree is more valuable, largely cause of terry and jerry and sha and dre and isaish. Thanks.

 

[nutterforthree]

It’s a way worse version of the nba with less continuity on rosters. The roster turnover for all ncaa teams is completely nuts

 

[SOBO1]

Agree, college basketball has turned into a shitty version of the nba.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

It’s a way worse version of the nba with less continuity on rosters. The roster turnover for all ncaa teams is completely nuts

Agree. Free agency every year for everyone is the problem. Schools either need to sign players for multiple years or a sit out year. When guys choose to sign a one year deal as opposed to a 2-3 year deal, the annual value should be lower.

 

[CL82]

The problem is that NIL payments coupled with unlimited transfers created de facto free agency, which in turn has resulted in a reshuffling of the rosters of those teams annually. For a lot of us, one of the things we really enjoyed about college basketball was seeing players develop over four years. Or watching a cohesive team full of less highly ranked players who stayed together four years, beating a bunch of young Mickey D players. All of that is gone now.

I don't blame any of the kids looking to maximize the return from their talent. I don't even blame the boosters who now have a legal venue to throw money at kids. I blame Emmert for failing to take leadership on this issue when it first emerged. There were a bunch of ways to deal with it. The easiest of which would've been to allow teams to purchase a player's NIL rights for an amount and still be considered an amateur athlete. The rule could say that a school has the ability to purchase an athletes name, image, or likeness for an amount not exceeding, pick a number, say $25,000 without the athlete losing his amateur status. If a kid thought his NIL rights were worth more than that, he should go pro, or semi pro. Ironically, many of us, including me, would have decried the fact that student athletes were now getting paid, but it would have been infinitely better than the wild west situation were now in.

Emmert is the perfect example of the Peter Principal. In every single place he's worked, he's left a steaming pile of shit behind, including, UConn where he "lost" a million dollars of state money. His ineptitude, spineless, and lack of foresight ruined the game that we all loved.

I hate that guy.

[/end rant.]

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

The problem is that NIL payments coupled with unlimited transfers created de facto free agency, which in turn has resulted in a reshuffling of the rosters of those teams annually. For a lot of us, one of the things we really enjoyed about college basketball was seeing players develop over four years. Or watching a cohesive team full of less highly ranked players who stayed together four years, beating a bunch of young Mickey D players. All of that is gone now.

I don't blame any of the kids looking to maximize the return from their talent. I don't even blame the boosters who now have a legal venue to throw money at kids. I blame Emmert for failing to take leadership on this issue when it first emerged. There were a bunch of ways to deal with it. The easiest of which would've been to allow teams to purchase a player's NIL rights for an amount and still be considered an amateur athlete. The rule could say that a school has the ability to purchase an athletes name, image, or likeness for an amount not exceeding, pick a number, say $25,000 without the athlete losing his amateur status. If a kid thought his NIL rights were worth more than that, he should go pro, or semi pro. Ironically, many of us, impossibly me, would have decried the fact that student athletes were now getting paid, but it would have been infinitely better than the wild west situation were now in.

Emmert is the perfect example of the Peter Principal. In every single place he's worked, he's left a steaming pile of shit behind, including, UConn where he "lost" a million dollars of state money. His ineptitude, spineless, and lack of foresight ruined the games that we all loved.

I hate that guy.

[/end rant.]

The coaches have been getting paid big bucks for years. Let's say players still couldn't get paid. What coaches make and were at risk of losing as long as there is unlimited free agency with no sit out, those coaches would be poaching players left and right for their own benefit. I'm not as much against the disgusting world of paying players. It's really not new. The crazy amounts are but the act of paying them isn't. This transfer thing is killing the game more than anything.

 

[its haLL baLL]

They've gotta do something. I heard the framework for this idea on a podcast this week (sorry, can't remember which one) but essentially the concept is all players sign two-year contracts instead of what we currently have.

If a player wants to leave while they're still under contract, then the school they are leaving for would have to compensate their current school like a transfer fee in soccer. So this way, the mid-majors and lesser P5 programs can get rewarded for finding and developing these players and would have some control over their rosters.

And if the school won't let the player leave, it's only a two-year commitment and the player would have immediate eligibility in year 3. This would go both ways, too, so if the school makes a bad investment they can't punish the kid after one year and tell him there isn't a place for him on the team in year two and not pay them.

It's far from perfect, but I think it would at least help level the playing field somewhat and provide some continuity on the rosters from year-to-year.

 

[shupat08]

They've gotta do something. I heard the framework for this idea on a podcast this week (sorry, can't remember which one) but essentially the concept is all players sign two-year contracts instead of what we currently have.

If a player wants to leave while they're still under contract, then the school they are leaving for would have to compensate their current school like a transfer fee in soccer. So this way, the mid-majors and lesser P5 programs can get rewarded for finding and developing these players and would have some control over their rosters.

And if the school won't let the player leave, it's only a two-year commitment and the player would have immediate eligibility in year 3. This would go both ways, too, so if the school makes a bad investment they can't punish the kid after one year and tell him there isn't a place for him on the team in year two and not pay them.

It's far from perfect, but I think it would at least help level the playing field somewhat and provide some continuity on the rosters from year-to-year.

But there is already unlimited transfers based on court rulings. This scenario won't happen.

 

[its haLL baLL]

But there is already unlimited transfers based on court rulings. This scenario won't happen.

It was a sports podcast so they weren't getting into the legality of it, it was more of a concept that all parties might agree upon that would benefit college sports.

There are so many things that need to be addressed for any changes to the current system to be possible. Contracts, whether the players are employees, etc. But I think everyone has to realize and agree that the current system is unsustainable and something needs to change.

 

[Medugorje]

A partial solution is the old sit out year when you transfer. Nobody in their right mind would pay you a huge some of money if you could not play for a year. This would drop the portal big time and increase graduation rates.

 

[shupat08]

A partial solution is the old sit out year when you transfer. Nobody in their right mind would pay you a huge some of money if you could not play for a year. This would drop the portal big time and increase graduation rates.

Again, courts have ruled that this is not allowed.

 

[seton1996]

Again, courts have ruled that this is not allowed.

Exactly everyone likes to blame NCAA and their leadership, they fought against all these things killing the sport, the courts ruled against them at every turn.

 

[shupat08]

Exactly everyone likes to blame NCAA and their leadership, they fought against all these things killing the sport, the courts ruled against them at every turn.

It's amazing. People are either still in denial or don't actually understand what has happened over the past 5 years.

 

[Seton75]

i was talking with my son about the obannon suit. he said the whole ncaa video game was filled with look alikes and he remembers a 6'4 guard who never missed a big 3 who was modeled after terry d. anyone rememver it that way?

 

[Seton75]

It's amazing. People are either still in denial or don't actually understand what has happened over the past 5 years.

imo not sharing so much money with the guys who earned it forced the courts hand. suppose 15, 20 yrs ago the ncaa said mens hoops and fb make so much money that schools are now allowed to give up to 50k cash to each player and the amount would be adjusted every few years as media revenue changes.

i wonder if something so simple would have worked. i am quute sure a large numner of fans would have been aggressively against it.

 

[shupat08]

imo not sharing so much money with the guys who earned it forced the courts hand. suppose 15, 20 yrs ago the ncaa said mens hoops and fb make so much money that schools are now allowed to give up to 50k cash to each player and the amount would be adjusted every few years as media revenue changes.

i wonder if something so simple would have worked. i am quute sure a large numner of fans would have been aggressively against it.

Who knows. I just find it funny how many on this board are opposed to unbridled free market capitalism when it impacts SHU bball negatively.

 

[seton1996]

i was talking with my son about the obannon suit. he said the whole ncaa video game was filled with look alikes and he remembers a 6'4 guard who never missed a big 3 who was modeled after terry d. anyone rememver it that way?

Correct, the way the NCAA video games usually worked the college names & logos were used from major conferences, while the rosters had no names, they usually had the numbers, skill sets and physical attributes similar to actual players.

 

[Seton75]

no pro sport that i know of is run like ncaa sports. baseball has a salary cap and known penalties if you exceed, published salaries, multi year contracts and they get paid to play, no nil bullshit

we have innuendo and free agency every year and kids who dont have enough cache to sell a bag of chips selling their nil for five hundred grand

if i wanted to design a system to consolidate hoops talent in fewer schools i am not sure i could have done a better job than how this is laid out. imo that is a large reason why things are as they are, so the fb schools can dominate. just cause you think people are following you doesnt have to mean you are paranoid

 

[shupat08]

Correct, the way the NCAA video games usually worked the college names & logos were used from major conferences, while the rosters had no names, they usually had the numbers, skill sets and physical attributes similar to actual players.

And then when you'd recruit high school and transfer players. All the names would be in a first name and last name database and scrambled. Like I def had a player with the first name "Shaheen" on my roster and another player with the last name "Holloway" on my roster.

 

[CL82]

Who knows. I just find it funny how many on this board are opposed to unbridled free market capitalism when it impacts SHU bball negatively.

I get your point, but speaking for myself I don't like the fact that s system has been created that seems perfectly to make it impossible for teams like Seton Hall to play high-level college basketball. Connecticut, by virtue of greater resources and a surprising amount of foresight in getting out in front of the NIL thing and probably a good portion of dumb luck, is better positioned, but the game has changed and not for the better in my opinion. That's what bothers me the most.

For what it's worth, "unbridled free, market capitalism" doesn't seem to optimize the result of athletic contests, even at the pro level. That's why, as has been pointed out, even professional leagues, have salary caps, and other mechanisms designed to redistribute talent. Consolidating all the talent in a few high resource markets doesn't make for an interesting product in the long run. I suspect the college level will eventually be mechanisms put in place to take care of that, but not until smaller schools, like Seton Hall, have been squeezed out of the process.

Note too that when I talk about "smaller schools" being squeezed out of the process, I don't exempt Connecticut from that. As I noted above, we are definitely better positioned by virtual being a state school, but eventually, if you're not in the P2, you're gonna be relegated to the minor leagues. More than anything else that explains why Connecticut is so vested in getting a viable football program and moving to one of the "P4 conferences". It is survival. That sucks, and it really, really does, but that's the reality of it, at least as I see it.

 

[CL82]

Again, courts have ruled that this is not allowed.

The answer, I think, is to pay kids a premium to enter into a longer-term contract, which has a forfeiture provision in the event they leave before the end of the term. It would take a while for the market to figure out the pricing, but at some point kids may say you know what I'll commit for two years and take the bigger cash grab. Of course, that becomes an exercise in mathematics for big schools to simply offer enough NL to offset any loss from the kids for future provision. And essence that's not any different than how coaches are being done now.

 

[jack 1970]

The problem is that NIL payments coupled with unlimited transfers created de facto free agency, which in turn has resulted in a reshuffling of the rosters of those teams annually. For a lot of us, one of the things we really enjoyed about college basketball was seeing players develop over four years. Or watching a cohesive team full of less highly ranked players who stayed together four years, beating a bunch of young Mickey D players. All of that is gone now.

I don't blame any of the kids looking to maximize the return from their talent. I don't even blame the boosters who now have a legal venue to throw money at kids. I blame Emmert for failing to take leadership on this issue when it first emerged. There were a bunch of ways to deal with it. The easiest of which would've been to allow teams to purchase a player's NIL rights for an amount and still be considered an amateur athlete. The rule could say that a school has the ability to purchase an athletes name, image, or likeness for an amount not exceeding, pick a number, say $25,000 without the athlete losing his amateur status. If a kid thought his NIL rights were worth more than that, he should go pro, or semi pro. Ironically, many of us, including me, would have decried the fact that student athletes were now getting paid, but it would have been infinitely better than the wild west situation were now in.

Emmert is the perfect example of the Peter Principal. In every single place he's worked, he's left a steaming pile of shit behind, including, UConn where he "lost" a million dollars of state money. His ineptitude, spineless, and lack of foresight ruined the game that we all loved.

I hate that guy.

[/end rant.]

Emmert was a politician in academic clothing.Saw it at UW.Always thinking about the next job.

 

[TheHall87]

anybody? it used to be a priveledge to get a college scholarship and goto school for free via your talent, now its like who cares about your degree haha Ed O Bannon your mind was in the right place but what you did what ruin the purity of amateur athletics prior to the "PROS"......

This post. Wow.

A "priveledge" (sic) to get a college scholarship and go to school for free?"

If I'm good enough it's not a privilege. A school saw enough in me to offer me a scholarship. I created that opportunity for myself. You are making money off me far exceeding the cost of the scholarship (which is paper cost btw) and yet it's a privilege for me to pay for free.

The NCAA once profited off player's names, images and likenesses while at the same time not allowing their student-athletes to do the same. Please explain how that is right. Seems hypocritical to me.

Finally, "ruin the purity of amateur athletics." Please call us from the mid-1970's and tell us how it is. Seriously, the purity of amateur athletics died long before Ed O'Bannon stood up for his rights.

Last question, when you go to games do you go to watch the players or do you go to watch the coaches sporting nice suits or a nifty quarter-zip sweater. If it's the former, you should have no issue with players getting paid because that's who is generating the lion's share of revenue. Up until now, the guys responsible for bringing the money, don't see much of it.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Last question, when you go to games do you go to watch the players or do you go to watch the coaches sporting nice suits or a nifty quarter-zip sweater. If it's the former, you should have no issue with players getting paid because that's who is generating the lion's share of revenue. Up until now, the guys responsible for bringing the money, don't see much of it.

this is the only part I disagree with because if you base things on the principle of the statement, then the players at a Don Bosco vs St Peter’s Prep should get some money too. I pay to watch the players not the coaches.

These are not professional leagues. The fact the schools can make money off it is great but which school is closing if college sports ends tomorrow. None of them. The only reason this problem exists is because the NFL doesn’t have a minor league and the G-League is trash. Anybody want to name their top 5 favorite G-League players. I’ll bet most can’t name the G-League team closest to where they live. The only reason these players have value is because people love their school. 50 maybe 100 people are going watch Cooper Flagg play in the G-League. He has 1% of the value in the G League than he does at Duke. The players need the school more than the school needs the players.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

This post. Wow.

A "priveledge" (sic) to get a college scholarship and go to school for free?"

If I'm good enough it's not a privilege. A school saw enough in me to offer me a scholarship. I created that opportunity for myself. You are making money off me far exceeding the cost of the scholarship (which is paper cost btw) and yet it's a privilege for me to pay for free.

The NCAA once profited off player's names, images and likenesses while at the same time not allowing their student-athletes to do the same. Please explain how that is right. Seems hypocritical to me.

Finally, "ruin the purity of amateur athletics." Please call us from the mid-1970's and tell us how it is. Seriously, the purity of amateur athletics died long before Ed O'Bannon stood up for his rights.

Last question, when you go to games do you go to watch the players or do you go to watch the coaches sporting nice suits or a nifty quarter-zip sweater. If it's the former, you should have no issue with players getting paid because that's who is generating the lion's share of revenue. Up until now, the guys responsible for bringing the money, don't see much of it.

The ncaa once profited and scholarship athletes couldn't even work side jobs in their offseasons