I don't like what they have done as I see it as disrespecting people who had nothing to do with the problem. I believe they would have a greater effect if they would agree to go into urban communities to help stop the violence which has created a lot of the issues in the community. If they would step in and tell the youth of America to go to school and stay out of gangs. This would do a lot more than kneeling during the anthem.
Going too far?
- Thread starter Halldan1
- Start date
NFL forbade the Cowboys from honoring the police offers slain by the sniper, but allows this BS. Sad.
Thank you Colin K for starting his mess. Wonder how many players realize his communist leanings? He loves the Castros and all they've done for Cuba including its educational system, which he thinks is better than in the US. CK is delusional and a disgrace and as they said in the 60s either love the US or leave it. He should leave.
Thank you Colin K for starting his mess. Wonder how many players realize his communist leanings? He loves the Castros and all they've done for Cuba including its educational system, which he thinks is better than in the US. CK is delusional and a disgrace and as they said in the 60s either love the US or leave it. He should leave.
Whomever crossed the line got a warning and the post was edited.
Maybe if our workplace was on national TV and they played the national anthem to start off, we we would, specially if we were one of the few people in the world capable of doing our job. I wonder if the one company capable of building the next trump bldg took a knee, does don can the project and decide to change plans.
WE aren't like fb players. Capitalism says so.
IMO, Kaapernick's intellect is questionable. I liken him to Chauncey Gardner from "Being There" in that I suspect he likes to watch TV and that is where he gets his information from and forms his opinions.
This is his thesis:
“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.”
Its hard to tell if "oppresses Black people" is referring to the broader topic or is directly tied to his last sentence.
If we we focus on his last sentence he is clearly calling out the police for shooting black people. For this grievance, he is protesting on National TV.
2016 Police Shootings Resulting in Death: 963
Of those, 233 were black.
Of the 233, 16 were classified as unarmed.
For the same year contrast that with 15,070 murders, of which 7,881 were black victims and 6,095 were committed by blacks. Where's the concern?
50,000+ opioid deaths in the same year. Where's the concern?
44 NFL players accused of assault and abuse of their wives. Where's the concern?
Of the 233 blacks killed by police, pick your number of how many of those you truly think were truly pre-mediatated murder.
And so Chauncey Kaapernick watches TV and gets caught up in the few sensational cases and starts his protest.
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This is his thesis:
“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.”
Its hard to tell if "oppresses Black people" is referring to the broader topic or is directly tied to his last sentence.
If we we focus on his last sentence he is clearly calling out the police for shooting black people. For this grievance, he is protesting on National TV.
2016 Police Shootings Resulting in Death: 963
Of those, 233 were black.
Of the 233, 16 were classified as unarmed.
For the same year contrast that with 15,070 murders, of which 7,881 were black victims and 6,095 were committed by blacks. Where's the concern?
50,000+ opioid deaths in the same year. Where's the concern?
44 NFL players accused of assault and abuse of their wives. Where's the concern?
Of the 233 blacks killed by police, pick your number of how many of those you truly think were truly pre-mediatated murder.
And so Chauncey Kaapernick watches TV and gets caught up in the few sensational cases and starts his protest.
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Kaepernick has chosen to make whatever point he is trying to make in the most high profile way possible.
Whether he is right or whether I agree with him are separate discussions but I thank God every day that I live in a country that allows that kind of protest and those kinds of discussions to happen.
Whether he is right or whether I agree with him are separate discussions but I thank God every day that I live in a country that allows that kind of protest and those kinds of discussions to happen.
Will anybody ever ask the question of why during the 1 minute of the anthem? There's roughly 10,000 minutes in a week. We don't see them protesting in any of those other minutes. They are in the spotlight on the platform for at least 3 hours a Sunday, why do they choose to protest for 1 minute. Why can't the guys not on the field kneel during the game? If the issue is more important than a football game, and the NFL allows them to protest in the workplace, why can't both teams concede extra points where everybody but the kicker and long snapper kneel on extra points? Or is the game more important than the issue.
I can say things I think are acceptable. You can tell me I disrespected you. While the NFL players say they are not disrespecting the flag and the country, others strongly disagree. If the ultimate goal is to move the conversation forward about bad cops take the focus off the flag. Don't continually protest during the anthem because more people talk about that than social injustice.
Finally I'm curious to why we focus on bad cops. There are bad lawyers, doctors, accountants, garbage men, financial advisors, shoe salesmen, etc. The focus needs to be on more than just bad cops if you want to fix social injustice.
I can say things I think are acceptable. You can tell me I disrespected you. While the NFL players say they are not disrespecting the flag and the country, others strongly disagree. If the ultimate goal is to move the conversation forward about bad cops take the focus off the flag. Don't continually protest during the anthem because more people talk about that than social injustice.
Finally I'm curious to why we focus on bad cops. There are bad lawyers, doctors, accountants, garbage men, financial advisors, shoe salesmen, etc. The focus needs to be on more than just bad cops if you want to fix social injustice.
Great post...your last paragraph hits home. Many, many more die from social injustice healthcare than from law enforcement. Not even close.
Lots of people ask this question. I am surprised you haven't heard it asked.
Lawyers, doctors, accountants financial advisors and (unionized) garbage men all have professional organizations that monitor and eliminate the bad ones. Are you saying we need more government oversight of these professions to fix social injustice?
Police officers aren't unionized? I'm saying we need to focus more on people treating people better no matter the profession. There's more to social injustice than just bad cops.
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What is the answer for spending only 1 of their 180 minutes on the big stage on the protest?
Do you really think their organizations remove the bad ones? That's a bit naive.
I agree. However, Colin Kaepernick does not have to protest everything equally.
I don't know for sure if there is a singular answer. Speaking only for myself, the first minute maximizes the political effect of the protest. If the players choose to protest in some other coordinated way inside the game itself I would be ok with that.
Attorneys and CPAs are disbarred all the time so there is a process to remove the bad ones. My being naive is not relevant. If you don't believe those professional organizations are doing enough, then you are calling for more government oversight.
While I find it annoying, I have no issue with someone whining over the repercussions of their free actions. For the most part, I choose not to react to it.
If the players choose to protest in some other coordinated way it won't piss as many people off and we can focus on social injustice not whether or not they are respectful, not what did Trump say, but the actual issue. In anything you want to accomplish knowing the audience is extremely important.
And bad cops are removed or fired as well. Thousands still die each year from Medical social injustice and it goes unaddressed by the AMA.
Well... It has us talking... So maybe because it is a peaceful protest that worked?
Are you sure? I have no idea what they do with those other minutes.
It is a short moment that everyone is watching and has zero impact on their job.
If they chose to protest on the sideline during a timeout. No one would notice or care. The fact that there is a debate on the board about it shows it was effective.
I don't get the outrage against Kap. You may not agree with all of his beliefs, but he has made us all think and talk about the issue in a more meaningful way. He did so peacefully and modified it based on a discussion with someone who served.
by the way... this would have eventually died out if not for potus throwing gasoline on it.
It has us talking about the protest not the issue.
Well they are not putting their fame and platform to good use if we don't know what they are doing the rest of the week.
I can argue this does impact their jobs. Any industries job revolves sales. They are paid to maximize revenue by being the best of the best. But being the best of doesn't get you paid. You can win a championship, but if you win in a sport no one watches, you don't get paid. Nobody cares about ping pong, so they don't get paid. Half the country is conservative. If they alienate a large number of people sales goes down, which has an effect on their job. Michael Jordan understood money and business better than anyone when he said Republicans buy sneakers too.
This isn't a republican vs democrat issue. Using a plat
The players job is to play football.
Their agents job is to maximize how much money they are paid.
The players are still doing their job. Their choice may earn them less money doing so in the future, but they are doing their job.
That's not true. Many police departments have added training programs to address implicit bias and deescalation.
More police are wearing body cameras
There are other community programs try and build trust between communities and their police officers.
None of that will fix anything overnight but there has been some progress.
I hope you own or had owned a business. If your salesman gives the greatest sales pitch ever but did something to piss off the customer in the parking lot before he walked in the door and lost you the business....would you say great job buddy? Their job is more than what they do during play. They have to represent the NFL in a certain way, otherwise there are fines and penalties.
This protest has turned into NFL vs Trump's comments to walk out. And together the NFL, NFLPA, and owners are all united in that fight, for one reason, and one reason only.....$$$$$.
It's amazing what a couple hundred videos of people burning your merchandise will do. Amazing how the Pittsburgh Steelers will all stand for the anthem this week. I wonder if there is a reason they won't kneel with so many others????? I guess seeing people burn your stuff and knowing they aren't going to invest any money into you changes the tune being sung just a tad.
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That may be true but Colin Kaepernick doesn't have to protest everything.
Each post you make infers the same thing - social injustice (medical, legal, finance, hauling) is not being controlled by market forces and you are calling for more government oversight.
I'm not calling for anything. Just pointing out facts. I don't care what CK does either. His issue doesn't hit my top 50 radar.
I don't agree with that at all.
It isn't a result of him specifically but it is a response by a movement of people, which he is a focal point
Curious to what people are making of the fact the Steelers will all be standing during the anthem. Is this a sign that fan support and money is more important than the protest? Do people think Steelers ownership is forcing them to stand? Hundreds of videos on the internet of burning merchandise of the franchise with the most superbowl wins. People announcing they will never watch another game again. Trump has never asked for the players not to protest. He has asked them to respect the flag and not protest during the anthem. By saying they will all stand for the anthem is this a win for Trump?
Looks like Trump has 4 W's in the NFL so far which in my opinion is primarily due to steelers fans burning their stuff all over the Internet. The steelers and broncos both announced they will be standing. The packers and bears already stood. Will the #takeaknee group now boycott the NFL? If so this will be the end of politics in any sport because the mighty NFL will be no longer if large groups boycott the NFL no matter what they do.
Standing/kneeling is not a sporting event - there are no winners and losers. Nothing has changed in the past month. There are still many players who believe race is an issue in this country just as there are many fans who don't want to mix politics with their sports.
The teams standing together locking arms showed solidarity to each other in the face of criticism from outside forces. They made their point last week so most of the players are prepared to move on. The players who feel compelled to kneel will continue to do so.
The teams standing together locking arms showed solidarity to each other in the face of criticism from outside forces. They made their point last week so most of the players are prepared to move on. The players who feel compelled to kneel will continue to do so.
CK choosing the initiator and poster boy for this issue was not the ideal person to gain broader support (with his cop/pig socks and Castro shirt). Very few took him seriously. Sad because it became the celebrity cause de jour that didn't create any meaningful changes.
I would hope all players think race is an issue. Nobody is saying it's not. Race is still an issue and it's going to be until true leaders step up. Sadly I believe race issues are much worse today than they were 10-15 years ago. I think all people need to treat people of other races better. However there are proper ways to peacefully protest. I think the biggest misconception is that quiet and peaceful is respectful. People can quietly and peacefully disrespect others. Anyone can quietly and peacefully give another person the finger. That's not acceptable either. Based on the steelers fans burning jerseys, I would guess that is how some people feel when a knee is taken during the anthem. I'm all for being unified in solidarity linking arms while standing when the flag is out and the anthem is sung.
I'm curious to see if any players kneel this week. So far there is more out there saying teams won't kneel as opposed to will kneel.
Two of those ways are burning the American flag and kneeling during the National Anthem. The fact we are able to do so without government retaliation is a good thing.
People who burn their jerseys and cancel their NFL package do so because they want to mix sports and politics. it is entirely possible to be opposed to players taking a knee while still watching the game.
It is entirely possible to say America has social injustices that need to be fixed without insulting so many Americans by taking a knee or burning a flag. In sports when people go about things the wrong way many say hit them where it hurts the most, the scoreboard. People have decided to hit the NFL where it hurts the most, the wallet. CBS, NBC, FOX, ESPN all have the most to lose short term as they have deals for another 4-5 years. But after that the NFL is in trouble. They might be in trouble regardless with CTE tests being available at some point, which may cause more players to be advised by doctors to end their career if they don't want life long consequences.
I've mentioned on this board before that my grandmother was a Sergeant in the Army and was very serious about flag code. She would comment about how it was inappropriate anytime she saw someone wearing apparel with the flag, or when she saw people driving their cars with frayed flags flying from the top.
Anyone who is insulted by a knee yet (probably) violates US flag code is a huge hypocrite and their anger/burning of Jerseys is probably more about their own racism than the actual respect given to the flag.
We have all seen a huge flag being brought out at football games horizontally. That is against US flag code... The same exact code that says people should stand for the national anthem. Why did no one care about the lack of respect shown to the flag then? Because their outrage is fake.
If you want to be a stickler, be a stickler both ways. That's like me saying the only people who really care about social injustice are the ones who don't own music that degrades women as b******. People who are true to the cause of fighting for social injustice would never tolerate that kind of music going through their earbuds and into their brain. The people who listen to that music, their outrage is fake.
I think most people want 1 minute of general respect. Protest when you come out for half time. Protest the other 10,000 minutes each week. Get a player on CNN, MSNBC, FOXNEWS, etc every single night of the week to talk to the American people. For just one minute don't alienate the people who view that anthem with almost the same respect as the cross.
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