Delta Air Lines will force unvaccinated employees to pay $200 more per month for health insurance
It is believed to be the first major company to institute a policy like this
Health Coverage Segregation
- Thread starter NYShoreGuy
- Start date
You know they do the same thing for smokers. Or give discounts to people who submit to biometric testing and healthy habits.
It would be taken much better if rates were increased for the increased cost of protection and then a discount given for vaccinated people. Would be a non-story.
It would be taken much better if rates were increased for the increased cost of protection and then a discount given for vaccinated people. Would be a non-story.
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
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Seems like common sense. Healthcare costs must be skyrocketing right now. Just look at how much traveling nurses are being offered to go work.
The question is where does it stop. Should the guy not working out pay more? Should the guy eating fast food daily pay more? Should a guy who drinks soda pay more than the guy who doesn’t? It’s all common sense but where is the line where you don’t have to tell them everything you do?
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
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You do realize health insurance companies offer incentives for getting an annual checkup for certain conditions, gym memberships, etc? They'll save money being preventative, just like if everyone was vaccinated.
This also exists in home insurance. I pay higher home insurance for the type of dog I have. It's only common sense.
Yes and I also realize having a gym membership and going to the gym and working out are 2 different things. Going getting an annual checkup and being healthy are 2 different things. A 400lb man with a gym membership who doesn’t go but gets his annual checkup isn’t common sense to get a reduced rate. The guy who doesn’t want a gym membership but runs outside daily and does pushups is probably more deserving.
BMI is a stupid number, but of course it is including in the screening. I had to explain to a life underwriter that a 6’2” cop who was probably 14% body fat was not “obese” because of his BMI. He was jacked.
The point was if companies look at vaccine status, there should be some type of body composition factor.
Technology is to the point where we can pinpoint this right now. It’s just a matter of affordability and implementation. Genomics sequencing for what you are personally at risk for in the future, wearables to monitor your current health and activity and sensors that can predict an event before it happens.
One of the reasons I would like to see deregulation of insurance to the point where I can shop for the policy that matches my health status and commitment to be healthy.
One of the reasons I would like to see deregulation of insurance to the point where I can shop for the policy that matches my health status and commitment to be healthy.
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
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In my former company you had to provide a quarterly document that showed all the times your gym card was scanned. If you didnt have X amount of scans than you didnt get the discount. There is no perfect solution, but giving people financial incentive to be healthy saves us all money in the long run.
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
Guest
Agreed. That's actually a nice solution. Do X amount of steps per day and get X discount. I like it.
Yes it does but the government caters to the food lobbyists who find ways to make higher profits with terrible preservatives and other junk that makes us unhealthy
Point is, there is. That was the point I made first above.
Do you not see discounts for health screening and other preventative activities as being similar? The cannot target specific numbers for specific discounts.
It’s a basic tenet of insurance underwriting - law of big numbers. If a population is going through health screening and getting bloodwork done to obtain discounts, enough of them with poor numbers will take the free counseling to consider increasing health. The general health of the population will improve. You know what? The general health of the population would also improve by taking the Covid vaccine. Stop with the long term unknown argument, we’re talking health insurance and the simple fact is there are fewer hospitalizations amongst the vaccinated. That is what the insurance carrier cares about. Note, they generally offer flu shots at these wellness events too…
Hancock Life offers a vitality product with premium discounts and a free Fitbit or discounted Apple Watch if you link your device.
You hit targets to maintain status and reduce your premium.
Await the “I’m not linking my wearable to some big brother company/government” community.
Maybe they can just inject a tracking device… wait, maybe they have 🤔
what if you have a commitment to being healthy (eating, exercise, etc) but also have conditions out of your control? like type 1 diabetes? feel like insurance wouldnt care if youre healthy you still have diabetes and thats expensive for them. (just and example)
in what way? on the surface it seems like people get increases and discounts based on their choices. but really it ends up based on things they cant choose.
If you know someone had Diabetes Type 1, then you know it’s genetic and they will need to manage it differently (ie insulin, A1c monitoring, etc.)
Having a pre-existing condition like Type 1 diabetes would not be factored in. In group health, like employer sponsored plans, it’s just part of the overall risk of the population. In individual health, part of the ACA did away with the health underwriting and pricing variances with pre-existing conditions.
Pricing is based on age.
Pricing is based on age.
just as long as they would be able to recieve similar discounts for eating healthy and exercising. or is that only for the population that can improve their bottom line?
the risk population is why ive found out employer plans stink compared to individual plans, which isnt that much of an insight. and i guess pregnancy is looped under risk for these conpanies
i think its actually cheaper for certain people to just pay for their own plan and get copays on things like outpatient surgeries + have a low OOPM rather than cheap premiums with companies that guarantee youre paying the oopm after one procedure.
well at the time i got a tax credit but think the regular amount was $6000 for the year. so if an employer plan has an oopm of $7k+ on top of any premium its something to look at.
I’m talking future. To get the discount you would have to comply with the treatment and testing protocol. Like I said before, agree to do daily blood tests, be monitored, use insulin, weight management etc. if you don’t follow you lose the discount.
as you should. but you are not the subject of this topic. you are fairly healthy individual. i was talking about those who have life long conditions they need to manage.
gotcha. thanks for clarifying. definitely more of a hassle then the normal diet and exercise. im actually working on a project for adherence although its on the side of the pharma brand.
insurance discounts hopefully work. money talks. if that doesnt work i cant have hope for much else.
It’s all balanced, don’t focus solely on MOOP (maximum out of pocket). There are various key elements.
MOOP
Deductible
Premium
all plans, group or individual, have to spell out all 3 with coinsurance/copays clearly defined for each level/service. All plans, group or individual, will have “metal levels” or bronze/silver/gold/platinum. In general, the insurance company will pick up the tabs at 60% for bronze, 70% for silver, 80% for gold and 90% for platinum. MOOP has an upper limit defined by ACA (affordable care act) but plans can have lower limits.
Easentially, the more you’re on the hook for, the lower the premiums. The more you expect the insurance company to foot, the higher the premiums. If you’re relatively healthy, you go for a high deductible plan with a low premium and invest the difference in an HSA to build a pool for future use, with many tax benefits similar to an IRA.
There are many factors to look at when comparing plans, not just a MOOP, not just premium.
Most times, group insurance is cheaper. Can’t just look at one number to determine, but consider many administrative costs are borne by the employer and sometimes there’s a subsidy. That’s why COBRA can seem like it’s so expensive, because you may be paying for Cadillac coverage and getting billed at 102% to cover the costs.
Always happy to take it offline if someone wants to speak to personal details. I don’t do individual plans but we as a company do, I’m just not contracted to write it for the few individuals I’ve passed to my group department (who has individuals contracted for individual policies). But I can help you understand coverage/benefits and group vs. individual vs. marketplace. No, there’s no cost… yes, I’m going to tell you the benefits of working with me on insurance (life, disability, long term care) and investments… lol, got kids to feed. I’m not an aggressive salesman, and those here I’ve worked with a bit would attest. I’m education first, help you understand what you have and don’t have, and show you things to consider. If that leads to business, then great. If it doesn’t, hopefully you appreciated the info and think of me on other situations or referrals.
great write up and definitely agree. although ive never had the metal tiers with an employer. usually just 2 options or an hsa. never had an hmo option through an employer.
people with ongoing conditions can almost predict which plan is best based on planned work for the year.
nyshoreguy has shared his medical work extensively this year and it sounds like he can plan on getting a ton of work done next year too. its a math equation based on all of the criteria you mentioned. maybe he should speak with you.
appreciate the post
The tiers were there, maybe just not apparent. When selecting choices from an employer menu, you likely saw differences in deductibles and something to the effect of 80% or 70% coinsurance. That’s essentially the tier. Higher coinsurance (insurer pays more), higher premiums.
If you’re good at budgeting/saving, you’re better off paying less in premium and saving the difference in your HSA. At the end of the day, your maximum out of pocket cost is the same but you bank more if you don’t need to use it. But save that difference in premiums, don’t go spending it! Wake up in 10 years and have $20-30k or more sitting in your HSA. That is a powerful way to save for future medical expenditures or even use to pay long term care insurance premiums. And at age 65, the 20% penalty for non-medical usage is eliminated and you can use those funds for non-qualifying purposes, but will pay income tax. Then, it’s just like IRA funds.
HMOs are kinda old school, PPOs and EPOs are more prevalent these days. Eliminates the requirement for a PCP as gatekeeper but still incentivizes staying in network. All are managed care networks
the HSA seems like the move. it always seemed like an extra headache on top of the original headache but im going to check it out in november. appreciate it!
only to be used on healthcare, which seems like u dont do too much of that kind of spending. youre in a good spot either way. some great advice here
If you have a HSA, spend out of pocket if you can. Save the receipts and you can reimburse yourself at any time in the future for the value of those expenses, all tax free. Invest every penny you can and let it sit and grow.
Behind permanent life insurance…. A max funded, non-MEC variable universal life policy is the most tax-advantaged tool out there and it’s not even close.
Your point about the IRS putting the limit on HSA contribution, how about a near limitless contribution to a vehicle that will grow tax deferred and if used properly can provide tax advantaged income (tax free really, but there is some care necessary) throughout retirement? Sure, it’s funded with after tax dollars but if done right you’ll never pay taxes on growth and future income.
Our company requires 6 criteria to be met. $3,400 per year total impact on premiums if not met.
BMI, BP, LDL, Glucose, Tobacco, a PCP exam, and registering for Telemedicine.
BMI, BP, LDL, Glucose, Tobacco, a PCP exam, and registering for Telemedicine.
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