Illegal Immigration and Crime

[400SOAVE]

Did anybody here bother to watch the two Congressional hearings? All you have to do is watch the first ten minutes of each hearing to learn that we're not talking about a few random crimes.

We're talking about hundreds of murders, and tens of thousands of other felonies.

Even if it were true that illegals commit less crime, what does that matter? They should not be committing any crimes. They aren't supposed to be here in the first place. We have enough of our own criminals already. What kind of ridiculous argument is that?

Below is a news report that came out today about minors being sent here. This program alone has cost almost $2 billion in the last two years. And once again, the Catholic Church and other religious organizations are part of it.

Meanwhile, hundreds of school districts around the country are cutting budgets, programs and laying off personnel. But the government and the church obviously don't give a fukc about that.

http://fullmeasure.news/news/shows/broken-dreams

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/orr/resource/preferred-communities-grants-by-affiliate#nj

 

[cernjSHU]

Ok, you want all illegals out of the country. How do you suppose you are going to do it? Building a wall? Please. This country does not have unlimited resources. So, in order to round up the illegals, how many people must be hired by the federal government to accomplish this task? Once you deport these people, how do you prevent them from coming back?

I will tell you the answer to this question and to many other issues in this country, i.e, drug dealing and Tax cheats. If people truly want to solve this issue and not just grandstand about it, then you must get rid of cash in this country.

Cash allows illegals to work and live. Cash allows drug dealers to deal and the blackmarket economy to exist without paying taxes. But do you really have the will for it?

Building a wall is folly. Said for simpletons to say "hey, that's a great idea" It is one of the worst ideas ever stated in politics. As an example of how bad it is, go see John Oliver's report on it. Not to mention that the Mexican Mafia has tunnels already built to get through the border.

We have the technology. Apple Pay works like a charm where it is accepted. How come no politician ever suggests this??????

 

[SPK145]

We have the technology. Apple Pay works like a charm where it is accepted. How come no politician ever suggests this??????

How many people don't have Smartphones, or bank accounts, or credit cards? Who's going to pay for all that?

Why are drugs illegal? What adults put in their bodies is their own business. Aren't we told we own our own bodies (Planned Parenthood, etc.)?

Why are taxes so high? We talk about tax plans and revenue raising but reducing spending goes hand-in-hand with that. Even you agree "This country does not have unlimited resources."

Why is that tax code so complicated? Simplify it, get rid of all special interest deductions, broaden the tax base, reduce the tax rate, limit politicians to their constitutional powers so they can't engineer social policy via the tax code (and they call them tax expenditures, so stupid), reduce tax avoidance.

Round up all the illegals? No, but as they show themselves, goodbye.

A sovereign nation isn't sovereign if they don't control their borders, both land and sea. Do you keep your doors wide open and unlocked? If not, why not?

 

[cernjSHU]

How many people don't have Smartphones, or bank accounts, or credit cards? Who's going to pay for all that?

Why are drugs illegal? What adults put in their bodies is their own business. Aren't we told we own our own bodies (Planned Parenthood, etc.)?

Why are taxes so high? We talk about tax plans and revenue raising but reducing spending goes hand-in-hand with that. Even you agree "This country does not have unlimited resources."

Why is that tax code so complicated? Simplify it, get rid of all special interest deductions, broaden the tax base, reduce the tax rate, limit politicians to their constitutional powers so they can't engineer social policy via the tax code (and they call them tax expenditures, so stupid), reduce tax avoidance.

Round up all the illegals? No, but as they show themselves, goodbye.

A sovereign nation isn't sovereign if they don't control their borders, both land and sea. Do you keep your doors wide open and unlocked? If not, why not?

You do not need a smart phone to accomplish this. Just debit cards with fingerprint verification or some other verification method. Most of the younger generation do not carry cash anyway.

I agree with you concerning drugs. Let them do it. Making it illegal does not stop anyone from using it. Put the money that is spent on drug enforcement on health care including drug treatment. I am ok with that.

Tax loopholes need to be taken out. Deductions should be limited. However, if you earn over a certain amount per year say $100,000 or $200,000 on capital gains, that should be treated like regular income. No way the super rich should be getting away with this. I would increase the number tax brackets. No way someone making $250,000 in this state should be treated the same as someone making 2.5 million.

Your suggestion about once the illegals show themselves, you say goodbye. Well, one, if they do get arrested, they do get deported for most crimes. And some ridiculous examples I have seen happen. I know of one example that the guy in 1990 pled out to possession of CDS. He lived a crime free and worked in a job for 16 years in this country. Then, around 2006, he applied for citizenship and the Feds see the conviction and decide to deport him.

Murders and other crimes are witnessed by illegals quite often. If they talk to the police about what they saw and they can get deported because they "showed" themselves, you will send all illegals underground and then many crimes would not be solved or proven in court because they have been deported.

This illegal immigration issue is so highly complex. Simple solutions or slogans do not work. Hence my suggestion of cashless society.

 

[SPK145]

Tax loopholes need to be taken out. Deductions should be limited. However, if you earn over a certain amount per year say $100,000 or $200,000 on capital gains, that should be treated like regular income. No way the super rich should be getting away with this. I would increase the number tax brackets. No way someone making $250,000 in this state should be treated the same as someone making 2.5 million.

Capital gains should be treated as regular income but the tax rate on all income should be much lower. Dividends should not be taxed as dividends are paid out of already taxed funds. Employer contributions for healthcare, etc. should be treated as ordinary income as well, again, with the income tax rate on all income much lower. Flat tax with a standard deduction based on a capped family size with no other itemized deductions is the fairest way to go. Progressive tax rates is just another special interest group, political thing. Taxation should be to raise revenue in an easy and fair manner, not a punishment for success. A flat tax as I describe accomplishes this.

 

[SPK145]

Your suggestion about once the illegals show themselves, you say goodbye. Well, one, if they do get arrested, they do get deported for most crimes. And some ridiculous examples I have seen happen. I know of one example that the guy in 1990 pled out to possession of CDS. He lived a crime free and worked in a job for 16 years in this country. Then, around 2006, he applied for citizenship and the Feds see the conviction and decide to deport him.

Murders and other crimes are witnessed by illegals quite often. If they talk to the police about what they saw and they can get deported because they "showed" themselves, you will send all illegals underground and then many crimes would not be solved or proven in court because they have been deported.

I'm not talking about JUST crimes here. When your first act is to enter this country ILLEGALLY, you don't have any civil rights after that. Some crimes won't be solved. Some crimes won't ever be committed as well.

Why are your examples any more valid than 400SOAVE's??

 

[Seton75]

Breaking the law to come to the USA is not OK. Well said by SPK above.

When Perot made the deficit the topic du jour in 92, he lost, but the budget was balanced five years later. Then the compassionate conservative gave it all away. Maybe Trump's bluster will make us take care of this issue once and for all. Like SPK says, we lock our doors at night.

 

[Seton75]

It is about respecting the immigration laws. Using the lib logic on this, a poor guy should be forgiven for robbing a bank. (and I am almost always on the side of the libs, I just think on this one they are full of shit.)

And as far as the Muslim ban, I would love to see so many millions of Americans if a Muslim from Syria moved next door. And had a bunch of his bretheren visiting. Trump's words were actually we have to ban their immigration till we get a handle on who is coming in. The newly elected mayor of London says Trump would not allow him in. He would not be banned. We know about him. But how much risk should we accept from people we allow to come here? You just bought ten boxes of Cheerios. You have been told one Cheerio may be fatal if swallowed. Please fix your child a bowl. That is the immigration policy Trump's foes support. Or else they misrepresent what he actually said in the first place.

 

[cernjSHU]

I'm not talking about JUST crimes here. When your first act is to enter this country ILLEGALLY, you don't have any civil rights after that. Some crimes won't be solved. Some crimes won't ever be committed as well.

Why are your examples any more valid than 400SOAVE's??

I'm not talking about JUST crimes here. When your first act is to enter this country ILLEGALLY, you don't have any civil rights after that. Some crimes won't be solved. Some crimes won't ever be committed as well.

Why are your examples any more valid than 400SOAVE's??

My examples are there to point out that it is not an easy solution. No one is saying that we should have open borders. And no one wants people to commit crimes. If you want to deport all these people, then please first find a way you can actually protect the borders. And a wall is not the answer.

I work in reality that there will always be illegals in this country. Just like it has been for over 100 years and probably since the start of this country. Probably many of us on this board had forefathers that came here illegally as well. So, once they are here, what to do with them? Do you go looking for them? Do you just get rid of them as they commit crimes? Do you get rid of them even though they have infant children that are born in this country? Do you deport them when they get convicted of a crime? (Which is being done now).

Your comment that some crimes won't be solved is not a trade off I want. I want that illegal to be able to go up to the police and say I know information about a crime and who did it without the fear of being deported. I know of a case in which an American killed a mother and her two infant children in which the only witness that barely survived was an illegal. Due to her, the Murderer was arrested and convicted. What are we to do? Thank you for solving our triple murder and almost getting killed by one of our outstanding Americans, now get out?

There was an Elizabeth Police officer who was shaking down illegal immigrants for money knowing they would not report it for fear of being deported. There are in urban communities a thing called "Papi Hunting." Where American born people hunt and rob illegals because 1) they have cash on them because they work jobs like construction and landscaping and 2) They have a fear of reporting the crime because many think they will be deported.

The illegal communities are probably more victimized than average Americans by Americans.

I understand that we need to come up with someone to make the borders less porous. But fear mongering about the crimes illegals commit and asinine ideas like building a wall does not solve anything. It is a very complex issue with no easy answer. So instead of demonizing the illegals, how about coming up with some rational solutions instead of say, let's get rid of them all. Cause that ain't reality.

 

[cernjSHU]

It is about respecting the immigration laws. Using the lib logic on this, a poor guy should be forgiven for robbing a bank. (and I am almost always on the side of the libs, I just think on this one they are full of shit.)

Do not compare someone illegally entering a country to a violent crime. Bad analogy.
Do you know that crossing the border illegally is just a misdemeanor? And it is not a crime if they overstay their Visa which is what happens most of the time.
This is not a serious crime. And should not be equated with violent criminals.

 

[Seton75]

Do not compare someone illegally entering a country to a violent crime. Bad analogy.
Do you know that crossing the border illegally is just a misdemeanor? And it is not a crime if they overstay their Visa which is what happens most of the time.
This is not a serious crime. And should not be equated with violent criminals.

Fine. It is like accepting a person who embezzled money cause they needed some money.

If you are correct in stating that crossing the border illegally - with the goal of living here - is a misdemeanor, then what the demonstrates to me is the folly of how that law has been written.

 

[cernjSHU]

Fine. It is like accepting a person who embezzled money cause they needed some money.

If you are correct in stating that crossing the border illegally - with the goal of living here - is a misdemeanor, then what the demonstrates to me is the folly of how that law has been written.

Yeah, that analogy doesn't work either. Embezzling money is a felony not a misdemeanor. And overstaying your Visa is not a crime at all. Like I said, the language that Trump uses is to fire up people not based on the law or reason. It is fear mongering and demagoguery.

 

[Seton75]

Yeah, that analogy doesn't work either. Embezzling money is a felony not a misdemeanor. And overstaying your Visa is not a crime at all. Like I said, the language that Trump uses is to fire up people not based on the law or reason. It is fear mongering and demagoguery.

Should our laws be obeyed by people who wish to move here?

 

[SPK145]

My examples are there to point out that it is not an easy solution. No one is saying that we should have open borders. And no one wants people to commit crimes. If you want to deport all these people, then please first find a way you can actually protect the borders. And a wall is not the answer.

Anecdotal evidence just muddies the water, lord knows I'm just as guilty of thatl!!!

A wall is not THE answer but it certainly should be a part of ANY solution.

Just as big a problem as you also allude to is the overstaying of visas. Need to come up with a way to track anyone with a visa, a visa is a temporary permit to be in the country, not a license to stay, visa holders should be tracked as well as humanly/technology will allow. Microchip them if you have to.

 

[cernjSHU]

Anecdotal evidence just muddies the water, lord knows I'm just as guilty of thatl!!!

A wall is not THE answer but it certainly should be a part of ANY solution.

Just as big a problem as you also allude to is the overstaying of visas. Need to come up with a way to track anyone with a visa, a visa is a temporary permit to be in the country, not a license to stay, visa holders should be tracked as well as humanly/technology will allow. Microchip them if you have to.

A wall is not the answer or part of the solution. Like I said there are already tunnels underneath the border. That is throwing an immense amount of money at a solution that has no effect. John Oliver's funny yet informative clip on Trump's Wall.

Microchipping people? Pretty draconian. There are so many people that the US wants here to work. Foreign Nationals that work for companies like Toyota, BMW etc, for example. So you are going to microchip these executives? I don't think so. Let's assume that it is really unobtrusive to chip. Then most likely it will be just as easy to remove to stay here. Very difficult issues.

 

[SPK145]

The chip part was sarcasm but we need a way to actually track visa holders.

 

[cernjSHU]

The chip part was sarcasm but we need a way to actually track visa holders.

Sorry, I didn't catch it. In today's political arena, what may seem absurd is actually being taken quite seriously. If Trump read this board, I am sure it will be part of his new immigration policy. lol. I can see it now:

Chipping and Porting.

 

[400SOAVE]

Ok, you want all illegals out of the country. How do you suppose you are going to do it? Building a wall? Please. This country does not have unlimited resources. So, in order to round up the illegals, how many people must be hired by the federal government to accomplish this task? Once you deport these people, how do you prevent them from coming back?

I will tell you the answer to this question and to many other issues in this country, i.e, drug dealing and Tax cheats. If people truly want to solve this issue and not just grandstand about it, then you must get rid of cash in this country.

Cash allows illegals to work and live. Cash allows drug dealers to deal and the blackmarket economy to exist without paying taxes. But do you really have the will for it?

Building a wall is folly. Said for simpletons to say "hey, that's a great idea" It is one of the worst ideas ever stated in politics. As an example of how bad it is, go see John Oliver's report on it. Not to mention that the Mexican Mafia has tunnels already built to get through the border.

We have the technology. Apple Pay works like a charm where it is accepted. How come no politician ever suggests this??????

You want to know how stop illegal immigration? Here's a simple way to do it:

Enforce exiting law.

BTW, two illegal aliens were sentenced today for murdering a 90-year-old man.

If you watch this news report, the "reporter" does not bother to mention that detail in her report. Only the anchor mentions it during the awkward talk-back at the end.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/...ced-to-37-years-for-murder-of-elderly-farmer/

Basically, any day of the week we can post a story about a serious crime involving an illegal alien.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Previously detained by ICE

Then released so he can murder

Ex-UPS worker dressed in uniform kills 3 in front of 2 kids during home invasion

Alonzo Pierre Mingo, 37, was charged Monday with three counts of second-degree murder for allegedly killing three during a Coon Rapids home invasion.

nypost.com