Interesting Read in The Atlantic

[SHUSA]

You’re totally missing the point. Do you have a reading comprehension problem. My point is that if you do not value your employees, they will leave and then you will have to overpay on the market. Not a good strategy.

And what are you talking about when you say paying at market rate? I’m assuming you took this job at a salary that you felt was commensurate with your abilities. Or what your market rate was. What changed?

Every one of your responses shows more and more of your naivety.

Most successful businesses are successful because they have talent. They attract talent, they keep talent and they pay talent. You may need to look in the mirror.

im answering you not talking about a specific job. i dont have to look in any mirror.

your first point sounds like we are in agreement. not sure if you agree that companies are actually doing this. because again the data shows otherwise. and we all know internal promotions are lower than going elsewhere.

btw the most successful business (amazon) is literally doing the opposite of what youre saying they are doing. unless the #1 most successful business right now is somehow an outlier.

i agree about employee retention being important. but i dont think many companies invest in it. i think your point about drawbacks to jumping to a new company are baloney. get the money.

 

[SHUSA]

anyhoo. i think the pandemic is a massive shakeup in many ways for the job market. a big shakeup.

 

[HALL85]

im answering you not talking about a specific job. i dont have to look in any mirror.

your first point sounds like we are in agreement. not sure if you agree that companies are actually doing this. because again the data shows otherwise. and we all know internal promotions are lower than going elsewhere.

btw the most successful business (amazon) is literally doing the opposite of what youre saying they are doing. unless the #1 most successful business right now is somehow an outlier.

i agree about employee retention being important. but i dont think many companies invest in it. i think your point about drawbacks to jumping to a new company are baloney. get the money.

What data? I really think you don’t understand how it works. Any company has to manage labor costs but pay a competitive wage. They use all sorts of benchmarking data and have to follow some general guidelines or you won’t have control of your business. Think of it as a bell curve. The 10-15% of the people on the right are high performance/promotion types and are getting the promotions (8-12% is typical). The top people in that group are probably getting even better (special treatment). The 70% in the middle are either people that like what they do but don’t have aspirations for more responsibility or are average/good performers. They get raises in a market range each year. The bottom 10-15% you manage out of the organization.

If you don’t think a company cares about higher than normal turnover you are sadly mistaken. Where is your data on Amazon?

And there are pro’s and con’s of jumping. I’m not suggesting you shouldn’t jump. I have and although I got good bumps in many cases, that’s not why you do it IMO. Need to look at the whole opportunity. But that’s me.

 

[SHUSA]

What data? I really think you don’t understand how it works. Any company has to manage labor costs but pay a competitive wage. They use all sorts of benchmarking data and have to follow some general guidelines or you won’t have control of your business. Think of it as a bell curve. The 10-15% of the people on the right are high performance/promotion types and are getting the promotions (8-12% is typical). The top people in that group are probably getting even better (special treatment). The 70% in the middle are either people that like what they do but don’t have aspirations for more responsibility or are average/good performers. They get raises in a market range each year. The bottom 10-15% you manage out of the organization.

If you don’t think a company cares about higher than normal turnover you are sadly mistaken. Where is your data on Amazon?

And there are pro’s and con’s of jumping. I’m not suggesting you shouldn’t jump. I have and although I got good bumps in many cases, that’s not why you do it IMO. Need to look at the whole opportunity. But that’s me.

companies do not look at things on an individual basis. an employee could be making a company 2/3x their salary. but they are capped at the positions salary band. and capped at only being able to go to the immediate next position. im not arguing with companies doing it, i argue with trying to say they care about an individual while subjecting them to standards for the holistic company. the individual can surely prosper at one company. ive done it. but the business is simply not built to scrutinize and reward what every employee is truly worth. and because of that the climb to the top is easier/quicker somewhere else. there is no company loyalty anymore, and its not because the kids are wrong. its simply the market playing out.

Investigation into Amazon raises questions about workforce turnover, HR errors - Marketplace

Inside the investigation into "the Amazon that customers don't see."

www.marketplace.org

looking at the whole opportunity always seems good but the grass is rarely greener in that regard. either the same or worse. and youll never know until you start working. the money however is tangible and measurable. its a constant.

 

[HALL85]

companies do not look at things on an individual basis. an employee could be making a company 2/3x their salary. but they are capped at the positions salary band. and capped at only being able to go to the immediate next position. im not arguing with companies doing it, i argue with trying to say they care about an individual while subjecting them to standards for the holistic company. the individual can surely prosper at one company. ive done it. but the business is simply not built to scrutinize and reward what every employee is truly worth. and because of that the climb to the top is easier/quicker somewhere else. there is no company loyalty anymore, and its not because the kids are wrong. its simply the market playing out.

Investigation into Amazon raises questions about workforce turnover, HR errors - Marketplace

Inside the investigation into "the Amazon that customers don't see."

www.marketplace.org

looking at the whole opportunity always seems good but the grass is rarely greener in that regard. either the same or worse. and youll never know until you start working. the money however is tangible and measurable. its a constant.

That story shows the author has an angle that he’s trying to prove. Hourly warehouse jobs are mundane, redundant tasks, and have productivity measures. These are not typically career path positions. HS grad, unskilled labor. And the author admits that the manager to employee ratio is also unusually high because of the degree of automation; so there’s just fewer management positions to promote.

its really up to the individual; you can put your time in with one company and work your way up or jump at opportunities with new companies which may give you a short term income boost, but you may find yourself behind someone for the next position because they were there before you (assuming equal performance). There are many different ways to advance but at the end of the day you need to perform and not just show up.

 

[SHUSA]

That story shows the author has an angle that he’s trying to prove. Hourly warehouse jobs are mundane, redundant tasks, and have productivity measures. These are not typically career path positions. HS grad, unskilled labor. And the author admits that the manager to employee ratio is also unusually high because of the degree of automation; so there’s just fewer management positions to promote.

its really up to the individual; you can put your time in with one company and work your way up or jump at opportunities with new companies which may give you a short term income boost, but you may find yourself behind someone for the next position because they were there before you (assuming equal performance). There are many different ways to advance but at the end of the day you need to perform and not just show up.

honestly, im a little bit on the lazy and non risky side which lends itself to staying at one place. whats the best job i can structure around my life, not the other way around.

 

[HALL85]

honestly, im a little bit on the lazy and non risky side which lends itself to staying at one place. whats the best job i can structure around my life, not the other way around.

So you want to be paid above market rate but you don’t want to put in the extra work or take any risks. Do I have that right?

 

[sami]

So you want to be paid above market rate but you don’t want to put in the extra work or take any risks. Do I have that right?

#notthesecondgreatestgeneration

 

[SHUSA]

So you want to be paid above market rate but you don’t want to put in the extra work or take any risks. Do I have that right?

what? no thats not right at all.

none of what i wrote was about me specifically unless otherwise stated. i never once said i personally deserve to be anything.

and none of what my comment said alluded to me not working hard or "extra" (your gen loves working harder not smarter). i simply said im not the one to actively seek risk (although i have in the past with poor results)

something something reading comprehension.

 

[HALL85]

what? no thats not right at all.

none of what i wrote was about me specifically unless otherwise stated. i never once said i personally deserve to be anything.

and none of what my comment said alluded to me not working hard or "extra" (your gen loves working harder not smarter). i simply said im not the one to actively seek risk (although i have in the past with poor results)

something something reading comprehension.

There we go again with the generalizations...."your generation"...lol

You want to get ahead, the combination of working harder AND smarter is your best chance. I don't think that's a generational thing to be successful.

Given the way you've described yourself, maybe you're not the best spokesperson for someone who is focused on advancing themselves....just my opinion.

 

[SHUSA]

There we go again with the generalizations...."your generation"...lol

You want to get ahead, the combination of working harder AND smarter is your best chance. I don't think that's a generational thing to be successful.

Given the way you've described yourself, maybe you're not the best spokesperson for someone who is focused on advancing themselves....just my opinion.

because ive gone so in depth describing myself. not trying to be a spokesperson for anything. just having a conversation. and point out the trends that are most definitely happening today.

and i have no problem that you took two sentences on a message board and decided im not focused on your personal definition of advancing oneself.

side note, what does the 85 mean in Hall85?

 

[HALL85]

And I'm trying to give you the perspective of having hired and promoted people for close to four decades, and having interacted with hundreds of companies and what strategies they use. 85 was my grad date.

 

[SHUSA]

And I'm trying to give you the perspective of having hired and promoted people for close to four decades, and having interacted with hundreds of companies and what strategies they use. 85 was my grad date.

yup and i appreciate you explaining your personal experience.