Iowa Caucus Winner

[SHUHoopsFan]

I know very little as well, but did my research before purchasing and talked to a lot of folks. Not an elegant analogy, but why does someone need to own a Lamborghini that can go 200 mph (and pay $400,000) for it? I know a few guys that own them and I've shot one at the range. One of them is a collector and one likes the feel of firing it occasionally at the range. Another guy is ex-military. And I'm sure there are people that think that they want to be better armed than any bad guy that will ever show up at their door. I think the mistake most non-owners make is that they group all gun owners in a one demographic.

I agree that if you want to be ignorant about the motivation to own guns, watch cable news. I have found most gun owners more than willing to talk about their interest, none of which I can say that I walked away from thinking, "Jeez, they shouldn't own a gun!"

While your analogy is not elegant, I ask the same questions about cars as I do guns. Why make a car that goes 200mph when the top speed limit in the country might be 80mph? What good can come of it? Maybe police cars and ambulances can go 100mph great, but why for the general consumer?

 

[Merge]

1) Automatic weapons are illegal, you can’t buy one.

2) Assault weapons are nothing more than cosmetics perpetuated by the gun control lobby.

I that there is a bit of room for debate there. Since we decided that guns firing at an automatic rate should not be legal, is there a rate which should and should not be legal? An automatic rifle can around 10-15 rounds per second and a semi auto is around 3 per second. Where is the line for real self defense / hunting purposes?

There should be reasonable measures like background checks with no national registry and red flag laws that completely protect due process. Neither side likes these.

In that scenario, is there a way to track / penalize bad actors who purchase guns legally and sell them on the black market?
I think a chain of custody is pretty important. Make all gun sales and transfers occur through a licences dealer or transfer agent who is responsible for a background check. Anyone selling their gun outside of that process could be held liable for any related criminal activity with the gun.

I agree with you on red flag laws. We need them, but established in a way that protects due process.

To 85's point, I would also be in favor of much harsher penalties for carrying a gun without a license, and committing a crime with a gun.

I don't think most of us here are very far apart on this issue at all.

 

[HALL85]

While your analogy is not elegant, I ask the same questions about cars as I do guns. Why make a car that goes 200mph when the top speed limit in the country might be 80mph? What good can come of it? Maybe police cars and ambulances can go 100mph great, but why for the general consumer?

Not to be obvious, but probably because there are people that want to buy them and car makers that can make them profitably. You can take a car like that to a track and legally drive it at those speeds, keep in in your garage or whatever suits you. As long at the owner is responsible why penalize someone because it could be abused? Look at the amount of interest and the money that is spent at Barrett-Jackson.

 

[HALL85]

I that there is a bit of room for debate there. Since we decided that guns firing at an automatic rate should not be legal, is there a rate which should and should not be legal? An automatic rifle can around 10-15 rounds per second and a semi auto is around 3 per second. Where is the line for real self defense / hunting purposes?




In that scenario, is there a way to track / penalize bad actors who purchase guns legally and sell them on the black market?
I think a chain of custody is pretty important. Make all gun sales and transfers occur through a licences dealer or transfer agent who is responsible for a background check. Anyone selling their gun outside of that process could be held liable for any related criminal activity with the gun.

I agree with you on red flag laws. We need them, but established in a way that protects due process.

To 85's point, I would also be in favor of much harsher penalties for carrying a gun without a license, and committing a crime with a gun.

I don't think most of us here are very far apart on this issue at all.

I think there is also a lot of middle ground, but I go back to why nothing has really happened. It's not just party affiliation either. Obama has a majority in Congress when the Sandy Hook tragedy occurred. Which is why I question those polls and sources of who is voting. It's not just the NRA, but they are an easy target. Same thing with Opioids...Purdue was a convenient target, but the list is long of those responsible (and not acting on it).

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Not to be obvious, but probably because there are people that want to buy them and car makers that can make them profitably. You can take a car like that to a track and legally drive it at those speeds, keep in in your garage or whatever suits you. As long at the owner is responsible why penalize someone because it could be abused? Look at the amount of interest and the money that is spent at Barrett-Jackson.

People want to buy coccaine, people want to sell coccaine and make a profit too. Why penalize those that like a small dose because it could be abused

 

[SPK145]

I that there is a bit of room for debate there. Since we decided that guns firing at an automatic rate should not be legal, is there a rate which should and should not be legal? An automatic rifle can around 10-15 rounds per second and a semi auto is around 3 per second. Where is the line for real self defense / hunting purposes?




In that scenario, is there a way to track / penalize bad actors who purchase guns legally and sell them on the black market?
I think a chain of custody is pretty important. Make all gun sales and transfers occur through a licences dealer or transfer agent who is responsible for a background check. Anyone selling their gun outside of that process could be held liable for any related criminal activity with the gun.

I agree with you on red flag laws. We need them, but established in a way that protects due process.

To 85's point, I would also be in favor of much harsher penalties for carrying a gun without a license, and committing a crime with a gun.

I don't think most of us here are very far apart on this issue at all.

All sounds fair to me except criminals are going to be criminals, see Chicago, Baltimore, et al, that have the strongest gun control.

 

[Merge]

All sounds fair to me except criminals are going to be criminals, see Chicago, Baltimore, et al, that have the strongest gun control.

but the majority of guns confiscated which were used for crimes in Chicago came from other states.
Having tough gun laws in Chicago doesn't really work when you can drive a couple hours to avoid them. Need to find a way to prevent people from purchasing guns legally and then selling them on the black market.

 

[Merge]

Obama has a majority in Congress when the Sandy Hook tragedy occurred.

That is not correct. It was 2012. Republicans controlled the house.

Even if it were, like I was saying earlier, a lot of legislation is opportunistic.
Trump would have a much better opportunity to pass gun control legislation because he could get the gun crowd behind some "common sense" legislation.

The left might complain whatever it is doesn't go far enough (and I am sure they would) but he wouldn't face the kind of backlash that a democrat would.

 

[Merge]

While your analogy is not elegant, I ask the same questions about cars as I do guns. Why make a car that goes 200mph when the top speed limit in the country might be 80mph? What good can come of it? Maybe police cars and ambulances can go 100mph great, but why for the general consumer?

Side note, I got an electric car recently and one of the battery saving options is to set a maximum speed.
I didn't know that was a thing that existed, but now that I do, shouldn't that be set on all cars at like 85 since that is the highest speed limit in the US? Hobbyists could even be able to disable it at a race track or whatever.

 

[HALL85]

People want to buy coccaine, people want to sell coccaine and make a profit too. Why penalize those that like a small dose because it could be abused

Ok, not as elegant...lol. That's a bit of a different animal since cocaine is illegal.

We can have a whole different discussion on allowing recreational drug use and penalties. Personally, I don't care what someone puts in their body as long as I don't have to be financially responsible for them.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Ok, not as elegant...lol. That's a bit of a different animal since cocaine is illegal.

We can have a whole different discussion on allowing recreational drug use and penalties. Personally, I don't care what someone puts in their body as long as I don't have to be financially responsible for them.

Coccaine is illegal because of the way it can be abused, which I agree with 100%. My point is cars, guns, etc all have a limit where they can be abused, if the government is meant to protect its people, they should without a doubt do something to stop the potential of abuse.

 

[HALL85]

Coccaine is illegal because of the way it can be abused, which I agree with 100%. My point is cars, guns, etc all have a limit where they can be abused, if the government is meant to protect its people, they should without a doubt do something to stop the potential of abuse.

Agree on that, so it would make sense to look at gun death/injury statistics and focus on root causes and legislate accordingly.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Agree on that, so it would make sense to look at gun death/injury statistics and focus on root causes and legislate accordingly.

Root causes? How far do you really want to go? I'm sure the amount of sugar we put into our bodies daily impacts our brains making people crazy. I'm sure the video games kids have been playing for years has an impact. The amount of screen time and what we watch as an impact. I'm all for it, but you'll put everyone out of business except the organic farmers when it's all said and done. OR you legislate knowing we have these factors in our country.

 

[HALL85]

Root causes? How far do you really want to go? I'm sure the amount of sugar we put into our bodies daily impacts our brains making people crazy. I'm sure the video games kids have been playing for years has an impact. The amount of screen time and what we watch as an impact. I'm all for it, but you'll put everyone out of business except the organic farmers when it's all said and done. OR you legislate knowing we have these factors in our country.

Not sure where you are going with that, but maybe start with how many gun deaths are caused by accident, suicide, domestic violence, commission of a crime, drug deal related., etc. Last stats I saw were 24K of 39K of all gun fatalities are suicides. That's not good for headlines and talking points, but if we really care about saving lives....

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Not sure where you are going with that, but maybe start with how many gun deaths are caused by accident, suicide, domestic violence, commission of a crime, drug deal related., etc. Last stats I saw were 24K of 39K of all gun fatalities are suicides. That's not good for headlines and talking points, but if we really care about saving lives....

My point is the root cause may be mental health. Then what’s the root cause of mental health. And how far can we play this game.

 

[HALL85]

My point is the root cause may be mental health. Then what’s the root cause of mental health. And how far can we play this game.

I think you try to do what’s reasonable and address those areas that have the greatest impact, in this case deaths and injuries.