It's always about the refs

[Halldan1]

But the POV is different depending upon your rooting interest. That's why I'll complain at times about whistles but rarely note their effect on the outcome.

From the Nova perspective....



KrazyKat
All VUSports.com Team
Horrible shooting game. Didn't think the defense was all that great. Many missed open looks.

Swear the refs had the +14 points for SHU tonight after some of those head scratching foul calls in the last minute to prevent the Cats from going up more than 14...



Different rooting interests almost always see the game differently. Our posters are complaining about the refs as well. But with contrasting sets of eyes.

Bottom line, you have to play through whistles. On the road expect the 50/50 calls to usually go against you and vice versa at home.

Of course who you are playing and their coach's name plays a part as well.

 

[Shuathelete]

The difference is that Nova fans are well known for being complete Homers and delusional. And I think 100% of the board agrees the refs aren't what decided the game, as we would have lost regardless

 

[Pirate6711]

The refs had very little impact on this game and I can't imagine anybody complaining about them on either side. But that's what fans do...

 

[hbkmyr]

The refs didn't lose this game for us. BUT, the biggest difference was when the fouls were called. Everytime we tried to make a run, the refs decided to pull the whistles out. The fouls on Nova were called when the game was (basically) decided.

 

[sportsfantatic44]

The refs had very little impact on this game and I can't imagine anybody complaining about them on either side. But that's what fans do...

Teams combined for 57 free throws. I'm sorry the officiating was abysmal all the way around. No surprise when Pat Driscoll is doing a game. And yes, we weren't going to win at Nova but there is nothing worse than watching teams shoot free throws all night.

 

[KrazyKat]

Please take that post with a grain of salt. It was mostly in jest.

The line was 14 and I think 'Nova was up 13 and called for three fouls in the last minute when typically it is the team behind who gets called for fouls trying to stop the clock and get extra possessions to trade 3 for 2 or 1.

In no way was it meant to imply the refs were in SHU's favor and 'Nova wasn't getting the calls that game. There were many both ways that were confounding but 'Nova probably got more in its favor being the home team.

Anyway, good effort last night. The Hall gives 'Nova fits most of the time. The return game in two weeks will be a battle.

 

[Halldan1]

Please take that post with a grain of salt. It was mostly in jest.

The line was 14 and I think 'Nova was up 13 and called for three fouls in the last minute when typically it is the team behind who gets called for fouls trying to stop the clock and get extra possessions to trade 3 for 2 or 1.

In no way was it meant to imply the refs were in SHU's favor and 'Nova wasn't getting the calls that game. There were many both ways that were confounding but 'Nova probably got more in its favor being the home team.

Anyway, good effort last night. The Hall gives 'Nova fits most of the time. The return game in two weeks will be a battle.

My point was not in any way to criticize you or your fans.

I always go to the opponent's boards after games and dollar to donuts you'll see complaints about the refs. We do the same here.

Bottom line, the better team each night most always wins the game.

 

[Shuathelete]

And yea they probably were headscratching fouls as the refs were trying to even up the stats once the game was out of reach.

 

[lloyde dobler]

That Nova poster was right -- Singh hammered the guy right in front of their bench and instead SHU got the ball back. There was also an odd whistle or two towards the end favoring the Hall when the game had been decided.

But blaming the refs for a loss like last night is lame. Face it, the better team won. This SHU team is going to play ugly in a lot of games because its main strength is going to be its defense. Earn wins, not offensive style points.

 

[Halldan1]

Remember when Willard got the T late in the first half against DePaul after what I considered bad officiating in that half against us.

Well in the second half the whistles went against the Blue Demons 12-2 deep into the game.

A coincidence? I think not considering how many times DePaul attacked the basket in the final 20 minutes against our half court D.

Expect to get the 50/50 calls at home. It's a fact of life.

 

[Pirate6711]

Teams combined for 57 free throws. I'm sorry the officiating was abysmal all the way around. No surprise when Pat Driscoll is doing a game. And yes, we weren't going to win at Nova but there is nothing worse than watching teams shoot free throws all night.

There were 57 free throws because the teams were hammering each other. In a game like that, it's impossible to call every foul, especially when the strategy of one of the teams (Seton Hall in this case) was to essentially dare refs to call fouls since they wanted to take Villanova out of the game physically.

It did keep the game close for a good stretch of the 40 minutes, but you're not going to win many games using that strategy.

 

[Bud Boomer]

It seemed like a lot of our fouls came off offensive rebounds. Being out of position and slapping at the ball (as often occurs on offensive rebounds) is usually a good way to draw the ref's attention. Nova rebounded 43% of its own misses last night, so it shouldn't be surprising they shot a lot of free throws.

 

[TheBluePirate]

Earn wins, not offensive style points.

Absolutely.

I've continued to think about how refs see (after watching three kicked balls in the WBB match the other night, directly in front of a ref, without a whistle).

• There are things they must watch for - and the list is a long one - I may be looking for hand-checks at the top of the perimeter and stop looking for them down at the rim (where body hacks are routine)
• A human head and focus of eyes do not align in fast speed conditions - my face may be square on but my eyes are askance
• Range of focus in terms of a rapidly moving observable ground (field) - you could be looking directly along a line of sight to the kicked ball but be focusing further out (or nearer in) the field
• I think those items are fairly obvious - the last one is what I've been thinking about a lot - when one team is faster than the other team (faster meaning "more skilled") - whether perceived or actual - I think it's easier for a ref to see a foul (or "foul") on the slower team (slower meaning "less skilled"). I think they see our hand checks a bit more easily than the body blows delivered by an Ochefu for example.
• Emotion is a factor - refs have to feel the moment and the flow - this is the 50/50 call going to the home team most of the time (except - see Gonzo years).

It mostly evens out. I did that detailed study of referees two or more years ago. The key thing I learned is that all refs - over their entire body of work - have teams they penalize less compared with teams they penalize more. It's just how it goes. If the aggregate of all refs against all teams showed that in the end everything was a wash (comparing team vs team) then we'd all have nothing much to complain about. This is not the case.

(1) Some refs diverge significantly from their peers when calling games against a particular team.
(2) Some teams seem to get significantly more of these "divergent" foul rates versus others.

At least as of two years ago, St John's and Seton Hall got the absolute worst treatment in the league and Nova got the best, by far.

Now - I really do not think refs come in "hating" SJU or SHU - I think the only team-dependent factor from my initial list at the top is SKILL (speed - quickness - etc). A sloppy team is going to get hammered all day long. There's no two ways about it. Yes - adulation of an elite team is some kind of element - but I really do not see it as the predominant factor.

My bet is that our whistle will have improved somewhat since two years ago - and that we may actually get a pretty even up whistle because we are more skilled top to bottom than we have been in years past.

 

[hbkmyr]

I'm probably just ticked off by the foul on Ish after we cut it to 2. They were hammering each other all night and they call a ticky tack foul 20 feet from the ball. I think Nova scored their next 4 or 6 points from the FT line after that.

 

[sami]

aside from the foul calls, the two killers were the out of bounds plays... the one where Arch stepped out before the foul by Whitehead, and the other when late during our run, the ball looked like it went off Hart and Nova got the ball. They even played it back and the Fox guys said it appeared to be a wrong call.

I don't think the foul calls were that lopsided, bad both ways.

 

[HallB]

hbkmyr hit the nail on the head...listen, you expect VU to have the favorable calls at home and due to Jay Wright's holier than thou reputation. But, it was the timing and judgment of the calls made. Perhaps Ish fouled him, but 20 feet from the player with 20+ seconds left on the shot clock. Sometimes a ref has to use some judgment too. That lead to 3 of the next 4 possessions with questionable foul calls leading to 6 quick points, and the game was over. I think SHU fans simply wanted to see what would happen if these calls were not made. Clearly, the Hall had the momentum, the Cats looked shaky on offense, and then they were bailed out. That is all.

 

[HallBall10]

The Refs may have had Seton Hall with the points but they had Nova on the money line. -i'm joking but yeah it appeared the refs were trying to narrow the foul discrepancy at the end of the game. -Half joking.

 

[Rimas]

2 point game then right with even fouls then they get at least 3 more tick tack calls in a row.

 

[TomWall]

Please don't forget the Arch flop on the 3 pointer at a critical point of the game. And Gordon took 13 shots which are mostly drives and never got to the line.