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Later Coleman

Look at the way the tournament is playing out, if you don't have NIL its over.

You cant even buy low and develop because when a kid shows signs of being good they are going to be poached.

Jerry hit the nail on the head with his post.

Hopefully the NCAA does something about it but from the football conferences perspective it really doesn't matter because they can fund it.

If we cant keep a kid like Coleman, who really wasn't great, the future is bleak... but hopefully I am wrong

Coleman vs Desi
Coleman vs Rhoden

I think they are all similar skill sets but Rhoden and Desi the only difference is they had a better team around them so they got less shots.
Coleman vs Desi
Coleman vs Rhoden


Each on a better team but, remember: are we comparing the three after their sophomore years? If so, Coleman is ahead of them.

Another consideration before [further] bashing Coleman: if with his current stats he was the no. 7 guy at St. John's and wanted to come to the Hall, don't you think we'd welcome with open arms, and the rapid- hypers on this board would be doing handstands? In a New York minute.
 
Coleman vs Desi
Coleman vs Rhoden


Each on a better team but, remember: are we comparing the three after their sophomore years? If so, Coleman is ahead of them.
Both of those players were more physical players than Coleman. I think both of them would bully Coleman as sophomores. Coleman is more of a smooth player, but those guys were gritty, do the dirt-work players that I don't see in Coleman. As I said Coleman has a much smoother player with a more natural offensive game. He may even be more fun to watch but I'd sign up for sophomore Desi or Rhoden over Coleman.
 
I cooled a bit on Coleman towards the end of the season, so I’m not completely disappointed that he’s walking away. But Shaheen clearly wanted him back and he’s leaving anyway despite our supposed improved financial condition. Which is great.
Even if we made a comparable offer, good players want to play in the tournament and on a winning team. We are in a total rebuild unless we somehow land several outstanding players.
 
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Coleman with any competent players around him would be an absolute stud. Next year on a "real" team expect 12-15ppg, 6 rebounds, 1.5 stl, and an all conference nod.
 
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Have to assume Coleman had offers well over a month ago. My guess it’s either Louisville or Georgetown.
 
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As long as we replace him with something better, fine by me. I have very little confidence in that happening, but I’ll withhold judgment.

I don't think "better" is an option for us to be completely honest.

Our only chance for success right now from my view is finding the guy that can give us 80% of what Coleman would have next year at 20% of the cost and we need Sha to step up and coach the guys to actually run an offense and play like a team.

I like Coleman. A shame to lose him, but we're just not going to be able to complete on price until NIL is better regulated and there is a salary cap.
 
Good luck to him - we are both better off.

Lets re-load except for Godswill and 2 others.
 
...and we need Sha to step up and coach the guys to actually run an offense and play like a team...
Who feels confident that this will happen. We lacked so many things last year, but the look of our offense is what got me the most down.
 
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Coleman vs Desi
Coleman vs Rhoden


Each on a better team but, remember: are we comparing the three after their sophomore years? If so, Coleman is ahead of them.

Another consideration before [further] bashing Coleman: if with his current stats he was the no. 7 guy at St. John's and wanted to come to the Hall, don't you think we'd welcome with open arms, and the rapid- hypers on this board would be doing handstands? In a New York minute.
2024-253029100933.6164422.38938129.295102134.761491101595.3630511.76044546815.6
2015-16343388326.0151300.5033283.38687126.690511201715.0651471.45975442112.4
2019-20301577325.898222.4413398.3374369.623441491936.4702341.1318362729.1

Maybe not Rhoden but Desi had comparable numbers and both Jared and Desi played a lot less minutes. To be fair to Rhoden he was not starting and was behind Powell, Mamu, McKnight and Samuel in depth chart for shots.

I think Colemans production if played for St Johns this year would be similar to Rhodens sophomore year.
 
I find it odd they couldn’t find a loophole. Earl Timberlake played for 3 teams in 3 years. It’s not brain surgery to beat the ncaa.
They would have found a loophole or eventual ruling, but they didn't want to risk it as there was some uncertainty by both players and schools recruiting them at that point. The final decision came right before season started for the kids that were transferring multiple times. Femi was on the previous year's team, and he did decide to transfer at that point to New Mexico, he was eventually able to suit up and did not have to sit out.
 
I would absolutely shocked if he stayed. Solid player but in this environment with many options and big $$ he is good as gone. Time to move on. Another year with 9 or 10 new players. Maybe more. Crazy times.
 
If you can’t offer the most money you need to at least offer an environment of success and or measurable growth. If someone can make more money elsewehere, win more elsewhere and grow more as a player elsewhere, why exactly would said player want to come here / stay here?

That’s where @Fishjam ’s post recently about innovation comes into play. Seton Hall needs to soul search / strategize where they can offer some sort of advantage. Realistically, its not going to be money.

Build a robust scouting & development system that shows tangible player growth. Overpay difference makers and then fill in the gaps with your system.

Personally, I don’t think Sha fits that vision. You’d be better off with elite X&O tacticians and accepting they’ll leave every 3-4 years.

Look at Drake. 3 great hires in a row. Haven’t missed a bit (and a D2 transfer who was CPoTY). It can be done.
 
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Before everyone buries Coleman, isn't there a chance he goes into the portal but ultimately comes back? It's what DAW did last year.
Not if we can get someone to replace him that shoots the 3 at 35% or better and is bigger and can play the 3 or 4 spot! No way do I want him back.
 
If you can’t offer the most money you need to at least offer an environment of success and or measurable growth. If someone can make more money elsewehere, win more elsewhere and grow more as a player elsewhere, why exactly would said player want to come here / stay here?

That’s where @Fishjam ’s post recently about innovation comes into play. Seton Hall needs to soul search / strategize where they can offer some sort of advantage. Realistically, its not going to be money.

Build a robust scouting & development system that shows tangible player growth. Overpay difference makers and then fill in the gaps with your system.

Personally, I don’t think Sha fits that vision. You’d be better off with elite X&O tacticians and accepting they’ll leave every 3-4 years.

Look at Drake. 3 great hires in a row. Haven’t missed a bit (and a D2 transfer who was CPoTY). It can be done.
Leave every 3-4 years...oh, you mean the coaches leave every 3-4 years I guess...lol

Xavier had a run of many excellent hires. As I remember only one guy who didnt kill it.
 
I don't think "better" is an option for us to be completely honest.

Our only chance for success right now from my view is finding the guy that can give us 80% of what Coleman would have next year at 20% of the cost and we need Sha to step up and coach the guys to actually run an offense and play like a team.

I like Coleman. A shame to lose him, but we're just not going to be able to complete on price until NIL is better regulated and there is a salary cap.
If we have $5 million, I think we can get 2-3 players equal to or better than Coleman. It will cost most of the kitty, but that’s ok. Our compensation structure should be very top heavy.

If we go with communism approach again, you are right that we will not have enough for anything except replacement level players, lottery tickets, and scrubs.
 
If we have $5 million, I think we can get 2-3 players equal to or better than Coleman. It will cost most of the kitty, but that’s ok. Our compensation structure should be very top heavy.

If we go with communism approach again, you are right that we will not have enough for anything except replacement level players, lottery tickets, and scrubs.
I agree with this. Besides having a top tier PG the roster must also have a less expensive PG. No hybrids either.
 
Good luck to him - we are both better off.

Lets re-load except for Godswill and 2 others.
Good luck to him - we are both better off.

Lets wait on that one. How many Colemans will line up to play for a 2-18 squad?
 
If we have $5 million, I think we can get 2-3 players equal to or better than Coleman. It will cost most of the kitty, but that’s ok. Our compensation structure should be very top heavy.

If we go with communism approach again, you are right that we will not have enough for anything except replacement level players, lottery tickets, and scrubs.

I could be wrong, I'm just very pessimistic in the current environment and I don't see how we will be able to compete without a cap. We may have $5M but the schools we're competing against have at least double what we have. Once it is in their mind to leave for money, we're not going to be able to compete on price.
 
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Coleman with any competent players around him would be an absolute stud. Next year on a "real" team expect 12-15ppg, 6 rebounds, 1.5 stl, and an all conference nod.
I’m not so sure. If you asked me in mid January I would have agreed. But the last dozen games or so he became a volume player that scored a lot of his points when the game was a blowout in the second half. When teams clamped down on him in the first half he was often 0-8, 1-9. 2-10 at best.

His offensive efficiency numbers aren’t great with the highest usage rate on the team. And his defensive efficiency numbers are terrible.

You say he’d be a lockdown defender at 25 mpg—he hasn’t shown that (and often carried his offensive woes into defensive mishaps). He isn’t a physical defender at all and doesn’t move his feet very quickly to gain position.

Can he become more efficient? Hard to know right now.

Maybe.
 
Many of these comments remind me of showing buyers homes. They all want better but dont have the budget to match their taste. Dont u think a better coleman will cost more $ than coleman? Its the market
 
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