Maybe the dumbest move in college history

[ArtieLange9]

This is how you ruin a college basketball program

https://t.co/yoFdhDHsso

Side note

Orr not keeping Freddie may be #2 on the list though. Basically set the table for Nova and the J Wright era ...

SHU could of been what Nova is today had TA not gone for the $ or SHU didn't poney up for a huge raise after the sweet 16 run.....

If we had shelled out 1 mil a year for 10 years and a huge buyout, TA never goes to UM. The talent TA had lined up for us was insane. We were in Melo's top 3. We prob would of gotten Shavlok Randolph. The Nova kids were all locks. Foye was our backup plan.

Scary...

 

[Hall91]

What could have been indeed.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

This is how you ruin a college basketball program

https://t.co/yoFdhDHsso

Side note

Orr not keeping Freddie may be #2 on the list though. Basically set the table for Nova and the J Wright era ...

SHU could of been what Nova is today had TA not gone for the $ or SHU didn't poney up for a huge raise after the sweet 16 run.....

If we had shelled out 1 mil a year for 10 years and a huge buyout, TA never goes to UM. The talent TA had lined up for us was insane. We were in Melo's top 3. We prob would of gotten Shavlok Randolph. The Nova kids were all locks. Foye was our backup plan.

Scary...

tubby smith is old now like what 65, 20 years ago next month he replaced pitino at kentucky and really won a national title with pitino roster leftovers, he has not been to an elite 8 since 2005 and really has been irrelevant as a head coach at two other high major schools minnesota and texas tech but hey i am sure he is being compensated well with income

 

[ArtieLange9]

All he has to do is keep the kids Father as an assistant. Instead he demotes hI'm and expets no hard feelings

 

[hallgrad80]

This is how you ruin a college basketball program

https://t.co/yoFdhDHsso

Side note

Orr not keeping Freddie may be #2 on the list though. Basically set the table for Nova and the J Wright era ...

SHU could of been what Nova is today had TA not gone for the $ or SHU didn't poney up for a huge raise after the sweet 16 run.....

If we had shelled out 1 mil a year for 10 years and a huge buyout, TA never goes to UM. The talent TA had lined up for us was insane. We were in Melo's top 3. We prob would of gotten Shavlok Randolph. The Nova kids were all locks. Foye was our backup plan.

Scary...

Amaker was offered a new contract and SH believed that he was staying.

 

[Seton75]

I was told by a guy in the know at the time that his goal was to make us a huge program, and then he may leave. But the disaster of yr 4 scared him and he changed his mind and slogged off before the job was done.

 

[knowknow456]

Don't care about Memphis too much.

1. Amaker and Orr were never going to do what Jay Wright did at Nova with or without Hill. As coaches go, Wright is just better than those two. In addition the SHU upper management was a mess at that time and only got worse until Hobbs showed up. That's a decade in the wilderness.

2. As I recall, Amaker was paid very well (comparatively speaking) for a first time 30 year old head coach. Money was not the issue. I believe he was always leaving; it was just a matter of when.

 

[ArtieLange9]

Don't care about Memphis too much.

1. Amaker and Orr were never going to do what Jay Wright did at Nova with or without Hill. As coaches go, Wright is just better than those two. In addition the SHU upper management was a mess at that time and only got worse until Hobbs showed up. That's a decade in the wilderness.

2. As I recall, Amaker was paid very well (comparatively speaking) for a first time 30 year old head coach. Money was not the issue. I believe he was always leaving; it was just a matter of when.

Your clueless......

TA was making around 400k and severely underpaid. Say what you want about TA's coaching but recruiting was set up for him to dominate the area. That Ray, Foye, Frazier, Sumpter class was SHU bound with TA or Hill at SHU.

 

[knowknow456]

Perhaps....but brighter minds than mine will have the correct numbers. My recollection is that we gave him a seven year deal right out of the gate....then watched him contemplate leaving for Michigan after one year. Money was not the issue.

 

[lloyde dobler]

Was he underpaid at that time as one of the youngest head coaches in the country? That's very debatable. He was also getting anything he wanted, like the new basketball offices in Walsh.

 

[Seton75]

As amazing as this is to say, Amaker was a hotter name in recruit than just about anyone at the time. McD aas called him up asking if he was interested. His coaching in his first three yrs here was at worst very good, at least based on performance. SHU fans did 180s on him after yr 4. After yr 3, most hoped he stayed here forever

 

[ArtieLange9]

Like I said, it was very short sided thinking by SHU not offering him a big tim extension after the Sweet 16 Year.

 

[sportsfantatic44]

Memphis gave Smith 5 years and $15.45 million. Wow.

 

[ArtieLange9]

Memphis gave Smith 5 years and $15.45 million. Wow.

That's robbery.........

 

[halltheway]

We were always a stepping stone and he did it.. with both feet.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

This is how you ruin a college basketball program

https://t.co/yoFdhDHsso

Side note

Orr not keeping Freddie may be #2 on the list though. Basically set the table for Nova and the J Wright era ...

SHU could of been what Nova is today had TA not gone for the $ or SHU didn't poney up for a huge raise after the sweet 16 run.....

If we had shelled out 1 mil a year for 10 years and a huge buyout, TA never goes to UM. The talent TA had lined up for us was insane. We were in Melo's top 3. We prob would of gotten Shavlok Randolph. The Nova kids were all locks. Foye was our backup plan.

Scary...

Randy Foye was ours. I don't think we were getting any of the other guys who committed to Nova. Allan Ray, Curtis Sumpter, and Kyle Lowry all probably would have still gone to Nova regardless. I know Freddie did a great job at recruiting, but we actually had a head coach who was considered one of the best young coaches in the game with one of the brightest futures. Amaker played the recruiting game and he played it better than most of the big boys. I wish he knew then what he knows now.

 

[hallgrad80]

Signing a contract means absolutely nothing in college BB. How many times have we seen a coach sign a contract extension and leave before the ink was dry. SH was always going to be a stepping stone for Amaker the only question was how long he would stay before he left .

 

[ArtieLange9]

Randy Foye was ours. I don't think we were getting any of the other guys who committed to Nova. Allan Ray, Curtis Sumpter, and Kyle Lowry all probably would have still gone to Nova regardless. I know Freddie did a great job at recruiting, but we actually had a head coach who was considered one of the best young coaches in the game with one of the brightest futures. Amaker played the recruiting game and he played it better than most of the big boys. I wish he knew then what he knows now.

Hill was very well connected to St Rays at the time, Gary D is very tight with Freddie. Jason Frazier played a HS game at Walsh his Jr. Nardi was a lock as well. I was around the bball program in those days, I know......

 

[Seton75]

Signing a contract means absolutely nothing in college BB. How many times have we seen a coach sign a contract extension and leave before the ink was dry. SH was always going to be a stepping stone for Amaker the only question was how long he would stay before he left .

I still say he had no intention of leaving so fast, but the disaster of yr four scared him and he took the bigger money and ran away. And, I would love to have remembered posters' opinions of him the day after D Lane's three beat undefeated Cuse, or the day we beat Temple w/o Sha. And his job of keeping his first SH team working hard to get an NIT berth may have been his best work here.

 

[Pirate64]

This is how you ruin a college basketball program

https://t.co/yoFdhDHsso

Side note

Orr not keeping Freddie may be #2 on the list though. Basically set the table for Nova and the J Wright era ...

SHU could of been what Nova is today had TA not gone for the $ or SHU didn't poney up for a huge raise after the sweet 16 run.....

If we had shelled out 1 mil a year for 10 years and a huge buyout, TA never goes to UM. The talent TA had lined up for us was insane. We were in Melo's top 3. We prob would of gotten Shavlok Randolph. The Nova kids were all locks. Foye was our backup plan.

Scary...

Poneying up is easy to say. We still have an abysmal 9% alumni giving rate and it was worse back then.

It's all about having the money. We didn't and we still don't .

More Alums have to put SHU on their donation list and then put them on top of that pile. We give to a lot of charities- 50 bucks here, 50 there. But SHU gets 2/3 of our annual contributions. Works for us. Fostered our dreams.

 

[Seton75]

Poneying up is easy to say. We still have an abysmal 9% alumni giving rate and it was worse back then.

It's all about having the money. We didn't and we still don't .

More Alums have to put SHU on their donation list and then put them on top of that pile. We give to a lot of charities- 50 bucks here, 50 there. But SHU gets 2/3 of our annual contributions. Works for us. Fostered our dreams.

Back then our big guys weren't in jail...were they?

 

[Piratz]

I don't know if Amaker could've ever coached the talent. Probably would've needed the '00 class to take over and push the vets out, sort of like what happened recently with KW and the '14 group.

However, we would've cleaned up if we kept Amaker/Hill or even just Hill. That's an absolute fact, IMO. Believe Foye was the tightest with Hill.

 

[Pirate6711]

Back then our big guys weren't in jail...were they?

Right before. Brennan got sentenced in 2001, I believe. Kozlowski got busted (which took Walsh down as well since he was on Tyco's board approving the expenses) in the summer of 2002 and sentenced in 2005.

 

[dehere23]

Dead on re: Jay Wright and Nova. The downturn for the Hall and St. John's in the early 2000s led to the creation of the Nova monster. Many if not all of those Nova kids go to one of those two schools if the Amaker stuff doesn't go down and if Mike Jarvis didn't piss SJU's program down the drain (Jason Frazier was such a fixture at SJU's practices at one point that they he could have had his own parking spot). Jay got that class, won with them after a few years, and has really never looked back.

This is how you ruin a college basketball program

https://t.co/yoFdhDHsso

Side note

Orr not keeping Freddie may be #2 on the list though. Basically set the table for Nova and the J Wright era ...

SHU could of been what Nova is today had TA not gone for the $ or SHU didn't poney up for a huge raise after the sweet 16 run.....

If we had shelled out 1 mil a year for 10 years and a huge buyout, TA never goes to UM. The talent TA had lined up for us was insane. We were in Melo's top 3. We prob would of gotten Shavlok Randolph. The Nova kids were all locks. Foye was our backup plan.

Scary...

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Hill was very well connected to St Rays at the time, Gary D is very tight with Freddie. Jason Frazier played a HS game at Walsh his Jr. Nardi was a lock as well. I was around the bball program in those days, I know......

I'm not going to disagree we had a good chance with a couple Nova kids had Hill stayed. I'm just saying Jay Wright himself did a good job recruiting as well.

 

[hallgrad80]

Right before. Brennan got sentenced in 2001, I believe. Kozlowski got busted (which took Walsh down as well since he was on Tyco's board approving the expenses) in the summer of 2002 and sentenced in 2005.

That's not what Walsh was charged with by the SEC. He was charged with failing to disclose , while he was a member of Tyco's Board , that he was to receive a finders fee in connection with the acquisition of CIT by Tyco . The fee was to be compensation for bringing CIT to Tyco's attention which led to its acquisition by Tyco.

 

[NYShoreGuy]

Dead on re: Jay Wright and Nova. The downturn for the Hall and St. John's in the early 2000s led to the creation of the Nova monster. Many if not all of those Nova kids go to one of those two schools if the Amaker stuff doesn't go down and if Mike Jarvis didn't piss SJU's program down the drain (Jason Frazier was such a fixture at SJU's practices at one point that they he could have had his own parking spot). Jay got that class, won with them after a few years, and has really never looked back.

Jason fraser was barely healthy for his time at nova

 

[dehere23]

No doubt but I think out of HS he was the biggest coup of that group and gave lots of juice to Novas class

Jason fraser was barely healthy for his time at nova

 

[SHUisNJsTeam]

Poneying up is easy to say. We still have an abysmal 9% alumni giving rate and it was worse back then.

It's all about having the money. We didn't and we still don't .

More Alums have to put SHU on their donation list and then put them on top of that pile. We give to a lot of charities- 50 bucks here, 50 there. But SHU gets 2/3 of our annual contributions. Works for us. Fostered our dreams.

That's why I still believe alumni relations still needs a lot of work. With everything that Dr. Esteban accomplished during his time at SHU this is still the one area with the greatest need. Improve this and all of the other areas will instantly improve even more.

 

[Piratz]

Don't forget the alumni are also carrying more debt owed for those sparkling SHU diplmoas than ever before, lol.