Michael Stephens (ref) decided the game in Butler's favor.
- Thread starter Flnj86
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I disagree.. Butler had foul trouble. We didn't give Angel the ball enough to capitalize.
They went straight up on most of Desi's drives... When we can't hit jumpers, teams can pack the paint and wait there and either pick up the charge or just caught off the driving lanes.
They went straight up on most of Desi's drives... When we can't hit jumpers, teams can pack the paint and wait there and either pick up the charge or just caught off the driving lanes.
Blaming refs for losing is a losing proposition.
Even in the '89 final game, as painful as that was, there were sufficient opportunities prior to that call that would have made it a non-issue.
Kinda like blaming a field goal kicker for blowing a game on the final kick or assigning the loss of a golf championship to one putt.
Just MHO.
Even in the '89 final game, as painful as that was, there were sufficient opportunities prior to that call that would have made it a non-issue.
Kinda like blaming a field goal kicker for blowing a game on the final kick or assigning the loss of a golf championship to one putt.
Just MHO.
I didn't feel the refs were favorable to one team or the other. There were questionable calls both ways, but that's par for the course. SHU lost because Butler was the better team.
We lost because Whitehead isn't around to carry the Team on his back. The Refs had nothing to do with it.
Stephens sure as hell did not follow him over to the bench. He was on the opposite sideline perpendicular to the FT line where the official who makes a foul call is supposed to go. Demi had to have said something. On TV, you could clearly see him tell Willard that he warned Desi several times on the floor to no avail. Raft also mentioned this during the immediate sequence after the tech.
When all is said and done, Desi needs to learn to shut his mouth. He got into a fracas with a Butler player too that was broken up. Very immature.
With that said, some of the touch fouls in the 1st half were ridiculous. I think it was Ish or Nzei's first when the Butler player was holding the ball waiting for the rest of his team to come down the floor when they called a reach-in. Didn't quite understand the advantage there, but what are you going to do.
I watched the entire incident from the foul thru the Technical and Stephens CLEARLY followed him to the bench looking for an argument. Maybe it didn't come across on TV but sitting at the game it was clear as day. To the OP, would I say that the refs cost us the game? Probably not. Butler is very good and we did not play well. But Michael Stephens clearly enjoys the spotlight and every game he has one or two "hey look at me" moments and I hate it.
with all do respect, there are the same posts every game. So-and-so isn't getting this, so-and-so isn't getting that. These refs stink, etc. etc. At some point, isn't it time to look in the mirror and think maybe the team isn't doing something right or maybe Desi did say something he shouldn't have said, got warned, then continued?
Check the video, around 34:20: Stephens is walking away, Desi said something. Got warned, said something again then got whacked with a T. Even before that, when he got called for the travel two possessions before, he was complaining. Then at the 35 minute mark, Tim Brando repeated what Stephens told Willard "Stephens just said I told the kid twice..."
Check the video, around 34:20: Stephens is walking away, Desi said something. Got warned, said something again then got whacked with a T. Even before that, when he got called for the travel two possessions before, he was complaining. Then at the 35 minute mark, Tim Brando repeated what Stephens told Willard "Stephens just said I told the kid twice..."
How did he follow him to the bench? Stephens was in the paint walking towards the other sideline when Desi clearly said something that the whole court could hear.
Color me surprised.
PirateLife 89 exactly describes correctly where Stephens was standing.
Not sure what to tell you other than that clip doesnt show anything. The camera cuts away from Desi and MS and only picks up with Desi sitting on the bench and MS giving the Tech. If you were in the arena you would have seen Desi walking to the bench and MS wanting to continue their chat, but Desi kept walking. Not knowing what was said, my take would be that MS wanted to talk to Desi about the play or what Desi might have said and Desi wanted no part of it and just kept walking to the bench. The "i told him twice" comment could have been MS telling Desi twice to stop walking bc you could clearly see that MS wanted to chat.
An official is never going to issue a technical foul for walking away and not listening to an explanation. What gets you a tech are the comments when you bitch, don't listen, then bitch
And, just to clear it up, I have immense experience in officiating: varsity football, baseball and basketball. We are not trained to toss technical fouls out like candy on Halloween. You have to earn it. We'll never know what was said, but I'm sure there was colorful language.
And, just to clear it up, I have immense experience in officiating: varsity football, baseball and basketball. We are not trained to toss technical fouls out like candy on Halloween. You have to earn it. We'll never know what was said, but I'm sure there was colorful language.
Over his career Desi has gotten way too many (entirely deserved) Techs. I agree that he does need to learn to zip it up and it has definitely cost us. My view was that this one in particular was a bad call. Just think that this was one of Mike Stephens "look at me" moments, and he handed out a bad T.
Unless you're a piece of shit like Stephens, who is out there to make a spectacle of himself.
Aaaaaaaaaannndd there it is.
The refs made them lose? Oh no! Shame on them! Wha wha wha.......
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So, first its Clougherty in 1989, Tim Higgins/Jim Burr/ Ed Hightower and Ted Valentine for how many years. Now its Michael Stephens. Its never that the players/coaches say things that they shouldn't say?
Seems to me like there is an everlasting line of referees who don't like Seton Hall.
Yeah...ok.
We always like to complain about the officiating, but you unless you've put on the stripes for something other than a backyard pick-up game, you have no idea what its like. The amount of time and dedication to understand not only the rule book, but the philosophy and spirit behind each rule, knowing that every single play is expected to be perfect or future assignments are in jeoperdy. The agony behind a blown call is unbelievable.
But, you know, they still go out there every day to perform a thankless job for people like those on this board to sit and criticize them if they breathe wrong.
Solo - I've seen you at games, even talked to you briefly back when I was a student broadcaster for WSOU. You're telling me from where you sit, you've never once heard a coach/player slip and say something to an official that they shouldn't have said (outside of the Bobby Gonzalez/Karl Hess shenanigans from 2009-10)? From watching that game last night, you know Desi said something he shouldn't have just based on his/willard's/sha's reaction.
Why can't both be true? We all know Desi is a hothead, and everyone except you knows Stephens is a bad ref with a penchant to try & grab the spotlight. Calling him out is not an all out frontal assault on your entire profession. Ease up man, no one is saying all refs are crooked. We're saying Stephens is a bad one, just like there are bad people in every job everywhere.
Never said he wasn't a hot head. In fact, I cringe like the rest of you for some things. All I'm saying is this time, you knew it was coming. Right when Desi traveled two possessions before. Stephens does have an edge to him, but doesnt make him a bad ref. His resume (I think he's worked the last two Final Fours) speaks for itself. Also, his schedule: Big East, ACC and B10.
No it doesn't, at least to me. The AD/coaching/referee fraternity is just a private good ol' boys club circle jerk that rewards the people that have been there the longest and are known. This lie that gets pumped out every year that the "best" refs are the ones who get the biggest games is nonsense. You wait your turn, earn your stripes, and as the years drag on and everyone becomes familiar with one another, the opportunities arise. That mentality is also why the refs are never penalized for their bad behavior and are allowed to work way too many games.
I was directly in line behind Desi looking directly at Stephens. They were staring hard at one another. Stephens was jawing at him. Desi's head did not move. And suddenly, Stephens went ballistic and T'ed him up (and then started walking towards him then the scorer's table).
Since both KW and SH were not looking AT Desi, they could not have seen what his face / mouth were doing (hence their perplexity at the sudden T).
Desi almost sure as crabgrass in your patch of lawn mouthed the two magic words "blank you". It's easy as hell for anyone to decode those two words, silently mouthed.
Honestly folks, this is not that hard to figure out.
I don't think Desi had a T this year before the Butler game. I could be wrong, but there is no question Desi has been much more composed this year.
Stephens is the referee version of a show boat. He always wants to be part of the story. A good referee also recognizes the situation of player frustration and does not engage the player in conversation after a close call and then stare the player down on the walk to the bench, and then be staring at the player when he sits on the bench. He did not like that Desi got into a tangle a few plays before with a Butler player and was looking to send a message.
