Nets’ all-in trade for James Harden didn’t end with title

Halldan1

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Just deserts or do you feel bad??????





Nets’ all-in trade for James Harden didn’t end with title​

By Marc Berman

The Nets traded the franchise’s future on Jan. 19 to add James Harden to Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving.

They dispatched Caris LeVert, Jarrett Allen, Taurean Prince and Rodions Kurucs, as well as 2022, 2024 and 2026 first-round picks and the right to swap first-round picks in 2021, 2023, 2025 and 2027 in a three-team package to acquire Harden from Houston.

And all it got them in the end was an Eastern Conference semifinals knockout by the Bucks. As thrilling and loud as it was for Game 7 on Saturday at Barclays Center, the Nets died in overtime, 115-111, and lasted just one round further than the rebuilding Knicks.

In the end, the trade got them a hamstring-impaired Harden. Coach Steve Nash had Harden play all 53 minutes Saturday, but he played most of it erratically as the Bucks took the Nets out in overtime.

As Harden deferred in OT, the Bucks’ two stars emerged: Giannis Antetokounmpo scored the tying bucket in the final minute and Khris Middleton netted the game-winner.

The Nets’ stars couldn’t get healthy enough. Kyrie Irving missed the final four games of the series with aright ankle sprain Kevin Durant called “gruesome’’ after the loss Saturday.

“[I feel] like s- -t, honestly,’’ Harden said. “So many emotions. Me personally, frustration for myself [not] being durable and being myself [like] the last so many postseasons. Dealing with his particular hamstring, it’s frustrating. I’m frustrated. We did everything we could.’’

It wasn’t the playoff-record 13 turnovers Harden committed in the Rockets’ 2015 Western Conference finals loss that clinched the series for the Warriors, but it wasn’t good.

In his third game back after suffering the hamstring injury, Harden was more limber, but more errant. Bucks point guard Jrue Holiday rose up at the end to hit big shots and free throws down the stretch, and also got a key late offensive rebound to pull out the victory.

Harden finished with 22 points as he got to the free-throw line for a 10-for-10 showing. But he shot 5-for-17 overall and 2-for-12 from 3-point range and committed four turnovers, including one hideous one with 4:30 left in regulation on a long feed to nobody. Harden also committed a bad foul on Middleton with 1:05 left and the Nets down two in regulation.

Nash said Harden was essentially playing on “one leg,’’ but didn’t trust his bench to give the veteran a breather in the finale.

“With myself and Ky out, it’s too much pressure on KD,’’ Harden said. “If we’re not injured and Ky is on the floor, it’s a totally different case.’’

The Nets’ Big 3 were injured off and on all season and Harden called that process “draining.’’ Harden said he had a grade 2 hamstring strain going.

“It’s very difficult to fight through it when the three best players are in and out of the lineups,’’ Harden said. “We have to take care of our bodies and be back next year.’’

The Nets’ Big 3 ain’t getting any younger, though.

“I knew it was possible [we wouldn’t win the title], we’re missing Kyrie and James is on one leg,’’ Nash said. “I still thought we could win it tonight. The game could’ve gone either way. We faced too many obstacles this year.’’

The Nets have been villains after since trading for “The Beard,’’ and now the villains are dead.

“I’m kind of oblivious to all the noise,’’ Nash said before the contest when asked if he liked that his team has been villains since the Harden trade. “So I forgot about that. If we’re still the villains, then we’ll embrace it.’’

Complaining of lack of mobility, Harden played 88 combined minutes in the first two games he was back, and then all 53 Saturday. Maybe Nash could’ve given his one leg a breather.
 

Halldan1

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As a Yankee fan I have no right to say this but I strongly root against money bought super teams. Unless of course it's my team. :cool:
 
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Halldan1

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In the short term the trade was a no doubt about it great thing for the Nets. If the 3 stars were heathy no one was even in their league.

Problem is 2 of the stars were bought and that is not a good thing for basketball.

2 or 3 super teams with the remaining 27 or so teams locked in mediocracy or with virtually no chance to win the title is not good for the league as a whole.
 

NYShoreGuy

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To say the trade didn't work after harden and kyrie get hurt is silly. The trade brought the best basketball that nyc has seen in decades.
Last night was as close to a knicks early to mid 90s atmosphere area has seen in pro hoops in a while
 

NYShoreGuy

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In the short term the trade was a no doubt about it great thing for the Nets. If the 3 stars were heathy no one was even in their league.

Problem is 2 of the stars were bought and that is not a good thing for basketball.

2 or 3 super teams with the remaining 27 or so teams locked in mediocracy is not good for the league as a whole.
Phoenix denver utah all sustainable products for now, mostly drafted and developed young core...again i ask this it was ok for celtics lakers, bulls, spurs pistons to have super teams because it was different then vs now?
 

Halldan1

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There will always be a few outliers but two things.

1. Can they ever win a title short of the super teams being injured as they have been this season?

2. How long before the players on those teams leave to form new super teams?

Not healthy to have most of the top ten established stars in the league be on 2-3 teams.
 

JRSlim2284

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As a Knicks fan, I'm laughing in all of the petty ways.

As a basketball fan, this team should've won. But injuries rocked them. A fully healthy Kyrie or Harden helps the Nets win the series convincingly
 

NYShoreGuy

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There will always be a few outliers but two things.

1. Can they ever win a title short of the super teams being injured as they have been this season?

2. How long before the players on those teams leave to form new super teams?

Not healthy to have most of the top ten established stars in the league be on 2-3 teams.
Bulls 91 to 93 had jordan and pippen, 96 to 98 added rodman and kukoc

Spurs robinson and duncan

Rockets olajuwon drexler

Celts bird parrish mchale

Lakers magic worthy kareem

Give me an nba team that won a title last 40 years with one great player only?
 

TomD82

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Bulls 91 to 93 had jordan and pippen, 96 to 98 added rodman and kukoc

Spurs robinson and duncan

Rockets olajuwon drexler

Celts bird parrish mchale

Lakers magic worthy kareem

Give me an nba team that won a title last 40 years with one great player only?
I agree. And arguably you can say there is not even a team with 2 that won. Spurs also had Parker and Ginobli and the Rockets had guys like Horry and Sam Cassell. The Celtic team with Pierce, Garnet and Ray Allen? You have no shot in the NBA with one great player and barely with 2.
 

TheHall87

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Without Harden and with Kyrie, the Nets could (should) have won Game Three to go up 3-0. If that happens we may not be having this conversation and the Nets are preparing for the Eastern Conference Finals. Injuries happen and they dogged this team and its main pieces all year long.

You can say two guys were bought, but this is where they chose to go as free agents as per their collectively bargained rights. The object is to win and not just win but win championships.
 

SHU_Pirate1

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I don't feel bad for the Nets and I'm one of those who hate these superstar fake constructed teams. I do feel bad for Durant who left it all out there. He put forth another amazing performance but the supporting cast was pitiful missing open shots all over the place. They had so many chances to ice that game at the end and in OT where Durant got them there and got them the lead. Actually made me angry to watch. Joe Harris was the worst, missing those open looks was so frustrating. Apparently I'm not the only one as a Net's fan actually burned his jersey after the game!🔥😮
 

dehere23

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Bulls 91 to 93 had jordan and pippen, 96 to 98 added rodman and kukoc

Spurs robinson and duncan

Rockets olajuwon drexler

Celts bird parrish mchale

Lakers magic worthy kareem

Give me an nba team that won a title last 40 years with one great player only?
The first Rockets team won with only one great player (Dream).

Early Manu and/or Parker weren’t really good players or even really stars.

LB Pistons won with a collection of borderline all star, very good to solid players. No mega star.
 

Halldan1

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Chalk that up to injuries with the Lakers and Nets.

The Lakers bought the title (James) last year and the Nets would have this year (Durant/Irving) if healthy.
 

NYShoreGuy

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Chalk that up to injuries with the Lakers and Nets.

The Lakers bought the title (James) last year and the Nets would have this year (Durant/Irving) if healthy.
Lebron was in 2nd season last year i think trading for AD was more for title than just lebron signing there
 

Halldan1

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Sources: Brooklyn Nets guard Spencer Dinwiddie plans to decline $12.3M player option​


ESPN

Brooklyn Nets guard Spencer Dinwiddie plans to decline the $12.3 million player option on his 2021-22 contract and become an unrestricted free agent before Monday's deadline, sources told ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski.

Dinwiddie missed most of this season because of an ACL injury in his right knee, appearing in just three games. He was attempting to potentially return in the NBA Finals, but the Nets were eliminated in the Eastern Conference semifinals by the Milwaukee Bucks on Saturday.

Dinwiddie, 28, has struggled with ACL injuries before. During his junior year at Colorado, Dinwiddie tore his left ACL in a game and missed the remainder of the season.

Dinwiddie was a key player for Brooklyn last season, starting in 49 games when Kyrie Irving and Caris LeVert were out with injuries. He averaged 20.6 points and 6.8 assists in the 2019-20 season, but was diagnosed with COVID-19 in late June and did not travel to Orlando with the Nets for the season restart.

The 6-foot-5 Dinwiddie has averaged 12.9 points and 5.0 assists over parts of seven seasons with the Nets and Detroit Pistons.
 

Seton75

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Imo. Lakers not as good as the nets by a good deal. Lakes not as good as Milwaukee either.

Lakers and nets did what the Knicks have been tring to do since, to quote mushnick, Spencer deadwood.
 

Halldan1

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No doubt. And every other team that could as well.

Hell, my Yankees probably win half of their titles if they couldn't simply outspend everyone.

Now they can't and have won 1 title in the last 20 years.
 

Seton75

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No doubt. And every other team that could as well.

Hell, my Yankees probably win half of their titles if they couldn't simply outspend everyone.

Now they can't and have won 1 title in the last 20 years.
And ironically, if George wasn't suspended they prob wouldn't have won 4 of their recent titles. No way is he dreaming of Brosius and O'Neil .
 

TheHall87

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No doubt. And every other team that could as well.

Hell, my Yankees probably win half of their titles if they couldn't simply outspend everyone.

Now they can't and have won 1 title in the last 20 years.

They still can outspend everyone (except maybe the Dodgers). They have chosen not to.

They made the business decision that it wasn't worth it to them to spend dead money for going over the luxury tax. The same decision the Red Sox made a few years ago.

From 2000-2013, the Yankees had the top payroll in baseball and they have been lower than No. 3 in MLB payroll once since 2000. They are No. 2 to the Dodgers this year and were No. 1 in the prorated season last year.
 

NYShoreGuy

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No doubt. And every other team that could as well.

Hell, my Yankees probably win half of their titles if they couldn't simply outspend everyone.

Now they can't and have won 1 title in the last 20 years.
The Yankees could decide to spend as much as they want to with luxury tax penalties....i never understood yankee fans to be honest....reggie catfish winfield martinez boggs giambi tex all signed guys and yankees were not so great 80s to 93 94
 

dehere23

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The Yankees could decide to spend as much as they want to with luxury tax penalties....i never understood yankee fans to be honest....reggie catfish winfield martinez boggs giambi tex all signed guys and yankees were not so great 80s to 93 94
They had some talented teams in the mid-80s, after the early 80s success, that were poorly constructed. And they gutted a loaded farm system during that period.

Spending has always helped Yanks and other big market teams. But 1996-2001 was built most on the farm system, and post-2001-2010 were still teams in which the farm system played a huge role. Even today, without having a lost season since 1992 (a remarkable stat) the reason is not only $, but good player development and scouting as well. Other teams with deep pockets have bottomed out over the past 25 years. The Yankees haven’t and been able to successfully rebuild on the fly.
 

Halldan1

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They still can outspend everyone (except maybe the Dodgers). They have chosen not to.

They made the business decision that it wasn't worth it to them to spend dead money for going over the luxury tax. The same decision the Red Sox made a few years ago.

From 2000-2013, the Yankees had the top payroll in baseball and they have been lower than No. 3 in MLB payroll once since 2000. They are No. 2 to the Dodgers this year and were No. 1 in the prorated season last year.
Well yeah. But you then pay an exorbitant luxury tax figure and no one has a financial bottomless pit.

That plus the sons don't have the same emotional attachment towards the club that dad did. He made decisions based on that emotion. They make them based on financial concerns.
 

TheHall87

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Well yeah. But you then pay an exorbitant luxury tax figure and no one has a financial bottomless pit.

That plus the sons don't have the same emotional attachment towards the club that dad did.

He made decisions based on that emotion. They make them based on financial concern.

This is all true. As I said, they can outspend if they choose to but it comes at a large price. And I'm not suggesting they do so. It's also true that no one has a bottomless pit.

Obviously I'm not privy to their financial data but I'd venture that the Yankees could greatly increase their outlay including the luxury tax and still turn a handsome profit year to year if they wanted to.

I'll contrast that with the Nets who are owned by the deep pocketed businessman Joseph Tsai. The NBA salary cap for 2020-21 is just over $109 million. Since the cap is a soft number most teams exceed the cap anyway.

The Nets payroll for this season ended up at more than $166 million. Since the luxury tax doesn't kick in until more than $132 million, the team's luxury tax number ended up being just over $33 million (the total taxable amount came in just under $166).

But, with the different tax thresholds, the Nets are estimated to have a luxury tax bill in excess of $100 million. That works out to a total payroll of $266 for this year.

I'd be interested to know how much a run to an NBA Championship would have been worth to the team as opposed to a second round exit.
 
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Fishjam

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I certainly don't feel bad for the Nets as injuries are part of the game. Harris really hurt them and so did the underrated injury to Jeff Green.

I was a Celtics fan in the Bird years and have been a distant Knicks and Nets fan since then but mostly lost interest in the NBA. Started tuning into the Nets out of curiosity this year and was just blown away at the skill level they possessed offensively. It was frustrating as they could never keep all 3 players on the court for long but when they did it was a spectacle to watch.

I don't care too much about the Superstars choosing to play together. They've earned their freedom as Free Agents and basketball will always be subject to super teams as it only takes 2 Great players with the right supporting cast to make a championship caliber team.

You still need to stay healthy and earn it on the court. And as we've seen throughout the Playoffs, health is far from a given.
 

ed odowd

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According to article in NYPost today Nets considering 4 year extensions for the big 3 which would total around &700 million. Buying a title cost a helluva lot more than it used to,but if they sign all three will likely get one in the four years.

 

JRSlim2284

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They'd be dumb not to do that. When healthy, thats arguably 3 of the top 25 players in the league.
 

Halldan1

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Slim, just 3 of the top 25? Don't you think maybe 3 of the top 10 or so?
 

TheHall87

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They'd be dumb not to do that. When healthy, thats arguably 3 of the top 25 players in the league.

Slim, just 3 of the top 25? Don't you think maybe 3 of the top 10 or so?

I think 20 to 25 is about right. In no particular order you have LeBron, AD, Giannis, Curry, Embiid, Westbrook, Kawhi, Lilliard, Jokic, Devin Booker, Doncic, Jayson Tatum, Beal and Trae Young in the conversation. Maybe Karl Anthony-Towns, Donovan Mitchell and Zion too. I'm sure there are others to include as well.

Given the Nets have mortgaged the future already with the Harden trade, they have to go ahead and extend them. All three are still close enough to their prime that the window to win championships will be open for several years as long as they stay healthy and have some representative help.

This isn't Kevin Garnett running on fumes and Paul Pierce starting to sputter at the end of his career.
 
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JRSlim2284

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Slim, just 3 of the top 25? Don't you think maybe 3 of the top 10 or so?

Probably generous to say top 25. IMO, Irving is the 3rd best of that big 3. But offhand, no order (all healthy), in terms of a top 10 right now

Lebron
Durant
Harden
Lillard
Jokic
Davis
Embiid
Doncic
Kawhi
Giannis

Kyrie is probably right outside of that. I didn't even include Steph Curry, who I probably should've. Same for Westbrook, who I like more than most
 
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