Nets shut down Kyrie

[shu09]

Lots of interesting points on this thread but there's still one question that hasn't been answered.

If both the vaccinated & non-vaccinated can still transmit covid why is there a mandate to get the vaccine?

Shouldn't it be a personal choice based on vulnerability to the virus?

Because those who are pro-mandate are only interested in the politics of it, virtue signaling, power and control of others. There's no room for common sense like you have when you're dealing with ideologues and control freaks who want everyone to think and behave like them. They don't like free thinking and open-mindedness. They have no tolerance for differing opinions or behaviors, unlike those with common sense who mind their own business and let people live their lives how they see fit.

I couldn't care less how many people take the vaccine. If you want it, great. If not, that's your choice. If you have a bad outcome, that's on you. Doesn't affect me or anyone else. I took it recently after taking my time, doing research and evaluating my risk. What others choose to do or not do regarding it doesn't affect me or anyone else. Just them.

 

[MichiganStoleTitle]

Lots of interesting points on this thread but there's still one question that hasn't been answered.

If both the vaccinated & non-vaccinated can still transmit covid why is there a mandate to get the vaccine?

Shouldn't it be a personal choice based on vulnerability to the virus?

Come on, is this really that hard to understand? You can’t really be this naive. (And, if you’re a Seton Hall grad, I’m seriously concerned about quality of school’s education.)

(1) While vaccinated can transmit virus, I believe there is evidence that the vaccine makes it less likely they will do so. (The obvious logical fallacy with your statement is to ignore that fact the there may be a difference in likelihood vaxxed and unvaxxed will transmit, even if they can both do so).
(2) There are some for whom the vaccine provides less protection—e.g., the immunocompromised—and so encouraging others to get vaccine reduces the risks to those people (bc it reduces overall likelihood of transmission).

Obviously there are some countervailing interests with vaccine mandates, about which reasonable people can disagree. (Though, FWIW, even diehard libertarians realize they may be justified.) But hard to have such debates if you’re going to engage in motivated reasoning.

 

[MichiganStoleTitle]

Well said and sensical.

I say get the vaccine but no mandates, why is everyone so eager to virtual signal and control everyone? That's also a sickness.

If the vaccine works, why should anyone care about your vaccine status, it's your choice to (stupidly, IMHO) not be protected?

If it doesn't work, why would you mandate it?

And if it works but not as good as we were told (where we really are), I think you should still get it but a mandate is even more crazy.

We need leadership not dictatorship.

The gaps in your logic and reasoning here are stunning.

 

[MichiganStoleTitle]

Because those who are pro-mandate are only interested in the politics of it, virtue signaling, power and control of others. There's no room for common sense like you have when you're dealing with ideologues and control freaks who want everyone to think and behave like them. They don't like free thinking and open-mindedness. They have no tolerance for differing opinions or behaviors, unlike those with common sense who mind their own business and let people live their lives how they see fit.

I couldn't care less how many people take the vaccine. If you want it, great. If not, that's your choice. If you have a bad outcome, that's on you. Doesn't affect me or anyone else. I took it recently after taking my time, doing research and evaluating my risk. What others choose to do or not do regarding it doesn't affect me or anyone else. Just them.

Wrong.

 

[Halldan1]

Moving this to LOTS in a few minutes.

 

[MichiganStoleTitle]

Moving this to LOTS in a few minutes.

 

[SPK145]

The gaps in your logic and reasoning here are stunning.

Given this gaslighting, virtual signaling response, and your foot stomping, whining response above it, I place no validity to you.

 

[MichiganStoleTitle]

Given this gaslighting, virtual signaling response, and your foot stomping, whining response above it, I place no validity to you.

No gaslighting or virtue signaling*—indeed, I acknowledged reasonable people could disagree on policy—just logic and reason. (Which no surprise you’ve decided to ignore, given it provides direct rebuttal to your illogical thinking).

*I’ll grant you foot-stomping, though.

 

[Jerry1992]

I guess many on this thread do not have a spouse in medical profession that needs to deal with ramifications of these bad personal decision of those unvaccinated. And puts them and their families at risk. Our society has become very self centered. Sad.

 

[SPK145]

Moving this to LOTS in a few minutes.

That's where it should have been in the first place, LOL, no relevance whatsoever to Seton Hall or even basketball. Crazy man doesn't want to take the vaccine so the other crazies come out on from all sides.

 

[SPK145]

I guess many on this thread do not have a spouse in medical profession that needs to deal with ramifications of these bad personal decision of those unvaccinated. And puts them and their families at risk. Our society has become very self centered. Sad.

And aren't many healthcare professionals refusing to take the vaccine? Are they all political, self-centered crazies?

 

[HALL85]

Come on, is this really that hard to understand? You can’t really be this naive. (And, if you’re a Seton Hall grad, I’m seriously concerned about quality of school’s education.)

(1) While vaccinated can transmit virus, I believe there is evidence that the vaccine makes it less likely they will do so. (The obvious logical fallacy with your statement is to ignore that fact the there may be a difference in likelihood vaxxed and unvaxxed will transmit, even if they can both do so).
(2) There are some for whom the vaccine provides less protection—e.g., the immunocompromised—and so encouraging others to get vaccine reduces the risks to those people (bc it reduces overall likelihood of transmission).

Obviously there are some countervailing interests with vaccine mandates, about which reasonable people can disagree. (Though, FWIW, even diehard libertarians realize they may be justified.) But hard to have such debates if you’re going to engage in motivated reasoning.

Your first point has not been proven. The rest is just a gaslighting rant.

 

[SPK145]

No gaslighting or virtue signaling*—indeed, I acknowledged reasonable people could disagree on policy—just logic and reason. (Which no surprise you’ve decided to ignore, given it provides direct rebuttal to your illogical thinking).

*I’ll grant you foot-stomping, though.

Yet you provided no logic or reasoning in your reply to my post, which was pro-vaccine, anti-mandate.

The logic of illogic.

 

[Jerry1992]

I am speaking from my personal experience. I think people should do right thing that will benefit all in long run. That includes medical professionals as well. Anyway. Back to basketball for me.

 

[Burnsly]

(1) While vaccinated can transmit virus, I believe there is evidence that the vaccine makes it less likely they will do so. (The obvious logical fallacy with your statement is to ignore that fact the there may be a difference in likelihood vaxxed and unvaxxed will transmit, even if they can both do so).


"I believe" & "there may be" just reinforces my point. There is no real data that supports your opinion.

 

[MichiganStoleTitle]

I guess many on this thread do not have a spouse in medical profession that needs to deal with ramifications of these bad personal decision of those unvaccinated. And puts them and their families at risk. Our society has become very self centered. Sad.

Also an excellent point: even setting aside the direct health risks to others, w

(1) While vaccinated can transmit virus, I believe there is evidence that the vaccine makes it less likely they will do so. (The obvious logical fallacy with your statement is to ignore that fact the there may be a difference in likelihood vaxxed and unvaxxed will transmit, even if they can both do so).


"I believe" & "there may be" just reinforces my point. There is no real data that supports your opinion.

Try again. (And, by the way, this probably understate effect because looking at breakthrough infections—risk even lower if accounting for fact infection less likely to occur in first place.)

Vaccinated people are less likely to spread Covid, new research finds

British scientists examined how the Pfizer-BioNTech and the AstraZeneca vaccines affected the spread of the virus if a person had a breakthrough infection.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Merge]

Also an excellent point: even setting aside the direct health risks to others, w

Try again. (And, by the way, this probably understate effect because looking at breakthrough infections—risk even lower if accounting for fact infection less likely to occur in first place.)

Vaccinated people are less likely to spread Covid, new research finds

British scientists examined how the Pfizer-BioNTech and the AstraZeneca vaccines affected the spread of the virus if a person had a breakthrough infection.

www.nbcnews.com

The most recent data absolutely suggests the vaccine reduces the risk of transmission.

COVID vaccines cut the risk of transmitting Delta — but not for long

People who receive two COVID-19 jabs and later contract the Delta variant are less likely to infect their close contacts than are unvaccinated people with Delta.

www.nature.com

 

[Burnsly]

So based on this logic we'll also need booster shots every 90 days.

 

[Merge]

So based on this logic we'll also need booster shots every 90 days.

Not really. There is still protection months later, just wanes over time

If your goal was eradicating Covid completely, it would probably be closer to once every six months.
I don’t think that goal is obtainable, or really even necessary so I don’t support a mandate... but nothing wrong with acknowledging that the vaccine does provide protection to others other than those who are vaccinated.

 

[MichiganStoleTitle]

Not really. There is still protection months later, just wanes over time

If your goal was eradicating Covid completely, it would probably be closer to once every six months.
I don’t think that goal is obtainable, or really even necessary so I don’t support a mandate... but nothing wrong with acknowledging that the vaccine does provide protection to others other than those who are vaccinated.

Right. One could have a reasonable philosophical and policy debate about whether or not there should be vaccine mandates. (I’m in favor of them, but I understand why people might have a different view.) It’s an entirely different matter, however, to be an ostrich sticking your head in the sand, rejecting whole cloth the premise that there are negative externalities when someone decides not get vaxxed. And that’s my objection to some of the posts here.

 

[dehere23]

Well said and sensical.

I say get the vaccine but no mandates, why is everyone so eager to virtual signal and control everyone? That's also a sickness.

If the vaccine works, why should anyone care about your vaccine status, it's your choice to (stupidly, IMHO) not be protected?

If it doesn't work, why would you mandate it?

And if it works but not as good as we were told (where we really are), I think you should still get it but a mandate is even more crazy.

We need leadership not dictatorship.

The virtual signaling with this makes me nauseous. I'm thankfully not on social media, but you still read about it, and friends tell me that "I'm vaxxed" signal has taken place of the "I voted button" picture. Boggles my mind. Meanwhile my town, and probably every town you all live on, are consistently desperate for volunteers to help charities, non-profits, youth sports, parish-related or other orgs doing good work for their respective communities. You can do more good by volunteering your time -- and perhaps money if fortunate enough -- to any number of community organizations or groups. But that takes actual time and work, and can't be posted to get "likes" or "clicks".

 

[NYShoreGuy]

Kyrie Irving breaks silence on retirement talk, vaccine mandate in rambling Instagram Live

Speaking for the first time since the Nets decided they would not accommodate him as a part-time player this season because of his refusal to get the COVID-19 vaccine, Kyrie Irving made it clear We…

nypost.com

 

[shu09]

Wrong.

Why?

 

[shu09]

I guess many on this thread do not have a spouse in medical profession that needs to deal with ramifications of these bad personal decision of those unvaccinated. And puts them and their families at risk. Our society has become very self centered. Sad.

Sounds like you're the self-centered one, actually. Why is your family more important than anyone else?

If your spouse wants to be protected, he/she can get vaccinated and do their job without worry. If your family wants to be protected, they can get vaccinated. Simple. Stop trying to coerce others into your way of living, which you did by virtue signaling (saying those who don't take it made a "bad personal decision"). But at least you acknowledged that it is, indeed, a personal decision!

 

[shu09]

I am speaking from my personal experience. I think people should do right thing that will benefit all in long run. That includes medical professionals as well. Anyway. Back to basketball for me.

Nobody knows if it is the "right thing" or the "wrong thing." Each person needs to make their own risk-benefit analysis and then we all need to move on from this bizarre world of the last 19 months.

 

[shu09]

(1) While vaccinated can transmit virus, I believe there is evidence that the vaccine makes it less likely they will do so.

So because YOU believe something, that makes it a fact. Gotcha. 😂

 

[MichiganStoleTitle]

So because YOU believe something, that makes it a fact. Gotcha. 😂

No—there were other studies posted on thread. Not just my belief.

 

[MichiganStoleTitle]

Why?

For the reasons that have been outlined in multiple posts on this thread.

 

[shu09]

For the reasons that have been outlined in multiple posts on this thread.

No, you didn't refute anything I said. Respond to me and we'll debate. Otherwise you're just noise.

Tell me how those who are pro-mandate aren't virtue signaling. Tell me how those who are pro-mandate aren't closed minded. Tell me how one person's decision to get vaccinated helps someone else who isn't. Say I wasn't vaccinated - how would your decision to take it help me?

I'm AMAZED that 19 months into this, vaccinated people are so angry and still scared of this virus. You are protected. Move on and get back to normal life.

 

[Merge]

Tell me how one person's decision to get vaccinated helps someone else who isn't. Say I wasn't vaccinated - how would your decision to take it help me?

There is less of a risk they would pass it to you.

I'm AMAZED that 19 months into this, vaccinated people are so angry and still scared of this virus. You are protected. Move on and get back to normal life.

I think it's more the frustration that this is going on for so long, and the amount of people choosing to not get vaccinated for reasons that may not be that well thought out for those who are at risk.

 

[Jerry1992]

shu09. You have proven yourself to be a selfish and incompetent person. I am not wasting my time debating you. Get a damn life.

 

[shu09]

shu09. You have proven yourself to be a selfish and incompetent person. I am not wasting my time debating you. Get a damn life.

As usual with people who know they can't debate rationally and are challenged with facts that don't support their argument, they shut down and resort to personal attacks.

I live my life without fear of coronavirus. I suggest you do the same, you're paralyzed by fear! Another angry vaccinated person (assuming you are). SMH.

 

[shu09]

I think it's more the frustration that this is going on for so long, and the amount of people choosing to not get vaccinated for reasons that may not be that well thought out for those who are at risk.

I disagree. This ends when we as a society decide to stop letting it dominate our daily lives and news coverage. The president says it's a pandemic of the unvaccinated. Why don't people listen and just get back to their normal routines?

 

[Merge]

I disagree. This ends when we as a society decide to stop letting it dominate our daily lives and news coverage. The president says it's a pandemic of the unvaccinated. Why don't people listen and just get back to their normal routines?

If we all completely ignored it and it wasn't reported in the media, there would still be tens of thousands of people hospitalized today and a couple thousand dying every day though, and much of it was preventable. That's the frustrating part.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Jaylen Brown will be in the starting lineup still with covid symptoms and he had a positive test less than 2 weeks ago.