Next Season

[NYC Pirate]

Coleman, Godswill and Scotty for sure.

Dual, I want him to come back because he is improving and can be used in several roles. He has that knack for disrupting plays on the defensive side at crunch time. However, for me the number one priority is obtaining or recruiting a dynamic PG. A player that can control tempo, score and make everyone else better. Someone in the mold of a healthy Bryce Aiken. We may not be able to break the bank for that level of player, but you get the point. Plus, that could help Dual to play more to his game and act as an insurance policy at the PG position.

Felton, if this kid stays around, I believe he will help SHU become a better program moving forward. He's learning on the job in his first year, a rarity since the IW/AD team. Good form with his shot and solid Basketball IQ. Should The Hall bring in a top PG, Sha could use a 3 guard combo at times along with Dual. His dish to Godswsill during the UConn game was outstanding.

The budget dictates so much as to what SHU will do.

 

[General_Tso]

Dual stats since St John's game:

Assists
3, 3, 5, 4, 5, 6, 6, 3

Steals
6, 2, 3, 3, 2, 1, 2, 2

Blocks
3, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 2

Points
8. 6. 10, 13, 6, 6, 6, 9

Rebounds
3, 2, 4, 0, 1, 4, 4, 2

FG %
50, 60, 40, 50, 16, 33, 50, 50

Turnovers
5, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 4, 0

Minutes
28, 34, 38, 30, 31, 37, 39, 38

Free Throws
12 of 18


He is a young sophomore.

Yes, I want him back and I want to make him the centerpiece of the retention plan with Godswill, Coleman and Dual.

So you want the core of a 7 win team to be the ceneter pieces next year?

 

[HallGuy23]

Dual has been improving - actually driving north/south at times for a change - but there will be better PG options available. Some continuity is important. I'm not sure we have a BE starter with eligibility other than Coleman. Middleton could be for sure. Erheriene is showing big time of late. I'd probably try to keep Felton around. I see Dual (plus defender with length, maybe can develop more offensively) and Aligbe as solid bench players. Aligbe flashed for a bit, but for some reason seems more effective as a undersized center than a BE starting PF. I like Yalden for all the little things maybe.

So that's 7. And that's basically our depth. Need impact/starting PG and SG, legit starting big or two.

Our 5th-year players are the ones that really burnt us this year from poor play and/or injuries (Addae-Wusu, Jenkins, Toumi). And the whiff on Harmon who should've been an experienced PG didn't help, obviously.

You’re better than to use the “north-south” phrase. That kind of announcer speak drives me nuts

 

[hallwins]

So you want the core of a 7 win team to be the ceneter pieces next year?

No, I would prefer a mix and not having 8 new players each year.

 

[General_Tso]

No, I would prefer a mix and not having 8 new players each year.

I agree, but when you have the worst team in program history a complete overhaul is needed. Players dont show loyalty to the school so we have to have the same mindset.

 

[NYC Pirate]

Coleman, Godswill and Scotty for sure.

Dual, I want him to come back because he is improving and can be used in several roles. He has that knack for disrupting plays on the defensive side at crunch time. However, for me the number one priority is obtaining or recruiting a dynamic PG. A player that can control tempo, score and make everyone else better. Someone in the mold of a healthy Bryce Aiken. We may not be able to break the bank for that level of player, but you get the point. Plus, that could help Dual to play more to his game and act as an insurance policy at the PG position.

Felton, if this kid stays around, I believe he will help SHU become a better program moving forward. He's learning on the job in his first year, a rarity since the IW/AD team. Good form with his shot and solid Basketball IQ. Should The Hall bring in a top PG, Sha could use a 3 guard combo at times along with Dual. His dish to Godswsill during the UConn game was outstanding.

The budget dictates so much as to what SHU will do.

I forgot about Prince. Good leader and can contribute.

 

[HallGuy23]

Dual stats since St John's game:

Assists
3, 3, 5, 4, 5, 6, 6, 3

Steals
6, 2, 3, 3, 2, 1, 2, 2

Blocks
3, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 2

Points
8. 6. 10, 13, 6, 6, 6, 9

Rebounds
3, 2, 4, 0, 1, 4, 4, 2

FG %
50, 60, 40, 50, 16, 33, 50, 50

Turnovers
5, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 4, 0

Minutes
28, 34, 38, 30, 31, 37, 39, 38

Free Throws
12 of 18


He is a young sophomore.

Yes, I want him back and I want to make him the centerpiece of the retention plan with Godswill, Coleman and Dual.

It’s understandable to want him back based on potential and athleticism. The problem I have is that if you return Dual, Coleman, Godswill and possibly Aligbe that we’re looking at another team of awful shooters.

 

[hallwins]

I agree, but when you have the worst team in program history a complete overhaul is needed. Players dont show loyalty to the school so we have to have the same mindset.

I would prioritize Dual, Middleton and Godswill off this team.

 

[HallGuy23]

Hes deathly afraid to attack the rim and driving lanes. Opposite if kadary

Agreed, he shys away from any tough shot. Dribbles into a good spot then backs away or passes instead of going up strong.

 

[GloryDays85]

Coleman’s return will depend on what Power schools (e.g. Kansas, Ohio State, Florida etc.) come calling.

Will be hard to match what they have to offer. Sad but that is the joke system the NCAA created.

Pitino is right that they are paid employees right now and should have to sign a contract for an agreed upon number of years of service. Only way they are released from honoring those signed contracts is if head coach leaves.

 

[General_Tso]

I would prioritize Dual, Middleton and Godswill off this team.

On this team i would take Coleman back but not for star money. After that Middleton, Godswill and Felton are the only ones i would consider.

 

[williaza01]

Players are obviously important and I’ll leave that to the staff but is it at all possible Sha will bring in someone to help him run a defined and distinct offensive system?

One that we don’t need the premium end talent (that we can’t afford) and start to look for players who do specific things needed for that system

Money ball esque…although as a son of a former scout I hate money ball there is some merit to this evaluation tactic

 

[hallwins]

Players are obviously important and I’ll leave that to the staff but is it at all possible Sha will bring in someone to help him run a defined and distinct offensive system?

One that we don’t need the premium end talent (that we can’t afford) and start to look for players who do specific things needed for that system

Money ball esque…although as a son of a former scout I hate money ball there is some merit to this evaluation tactic

We moved the ball real well yesterday.

 

[hallstorm]

Money ball esque…although as a son of a former scout I hate money ball there is some merit to this evaluation tactic

Beane—and Alderson before him—really just incorporated more of an analytics approach along with the scouts take, together.

Unlike the film, Beane didn’t completely ignore his own scouts. He just didn’t completely take their word for it.

And it wasn’t just because of Beane’s ineptitude as a player despite being highly touted.

He knew kids matured at different paces (or not at all). And despite being really great on a lower level with a supposed superior skill set, it didn’t translate to the big league field.

Reflective of this SHU team and all the “upside” of the high high school rankings of this group.

 

[williaza01]

Beane—and Alderson before him—really just incorporated more of an analytics approach along with the scouts take, together.

Unlike the film, Beane didn’t completely ignore his own scouts. He just didn’t completely take their word for it.

And it wasn’t just because of Beane’s ineptitude as a player despite being highly touted.

He knew kids matured at different paces (or not at all). And despite being really great on a lower level with a supposed superior skill set, it didn’t translate to the big league field.

Reflective of this SHU team and all the “upside” of the high high school rankings of this group.

Yea that’s partly correct but they did start a trend that lead to dismantling most scouting departments within mlb

That’s the game you see today..most regional and national scouting departments are fractions of what they were

They didn’t create anything as platooning has been a part of the game forever

What they did was deemphasize the need for a absolute need to watch a player thoroughly for periods time..also they sell ownership how they can get a better product for much cheaper which is why it’s so prevalent in the game today and one of the reasons for the extreme distaste between mlbpa and mlb over the past 20 years

 

[ivyhillparkk1963]

Coleman’s return will depend on what Power schools (e.g. Kansas, Ohio State, Florida etc.) come calling.

Will be hard to match what they have to offer. Sad but that is the joke system the NCAA created.

Pitino is right that they are paid employees right now and should have to sign a contract for an agreed upon number of years of service. Only way they are released from honoring those signed contracts is if head coach leaves.

We can offer unlimited PT and name your stats.

 

[JTSHU]

On this team i would take Coleman back but not for star money. After that Middleton, Godswill and Felton are the only ones i would consider.

Imagine isaiah getting looks 1 on 1 when hes not the sole focal point

 

[hbkmyr]

We keep piling up players from the roster to keep and suddenly you’re bringing back 5, 6 , 7 players from a bottom team. There’s only so many minutes to go around.

 

[shu09]

My answer is immediately above.
Absolutely.
He is a ++ athlete
Did you see his 2 blocks on the guy they are calling a lottery pick?

Did you see his steal yesterday down the stretch that got us the ball back?

I said on this board a month ago to give him 30 plus minutes and coach him up.

What did Dual do yesterday that gives you concern?

How about his 6 of the team's 7 assists at Georgetown?

He has bounced all through high school and from Providence to Seton Hall.

Get him some coaching stability with Sha this summer and he can have a Richmond jump next year.

Amazing how one fluke win gets people going. SMH.

 

[Seton00]

So you want the core of a 7 win team to be the ceneter pieces next year?

They are Freshman and Sophomores. They will take a jump next year... they usually always do.

 

[SPK145]

If Davis and Richmond each got $900,000 ( even if they didn't), what are best guesses that Coleman will be offered?

Apples to oranges as there will be a lot more money to go around from all teams this off-season. My guess on Coleman is $750,000.

 

[SPK145]

Dual is playing much better recently as a basketball player, just not sure he's the answer at PG yet. To move up to the top half of the Big East will need better than him next year. And that can still be him.

 

[doctorcb12]

I agree, but when you have the worst team in program history a complete overhaul is needed. Players dont show loyalty to the school so we have to have the same mindset.

I don’t agree with that. Missouri kept I believe 5 players from a team that went winless in conference play and now they are a top 25 team. I would say keep Coleman, Scotty, Godswill, Dual(as a backup PG) for sure. A maybe on Felton and Prince. You spend big on a PG, SG, and whatever is left use on a big with some decent post moves and that could be a solid roster. Rest of roster includes cheap freshmen, maybe a JUCO, and probably upgrade our walk on big to a scholarships.

 

[newshu1]

Blows my mind why anyone would want Dual back when there should be much better PG options avail on the market. He was the engine of a 7-18 team this season. "Hoping and Wishing and projecting" is what got us in the mess this year. You need players who have done it not a team of maybes

 

[Bud Boomer]

Dual is worth a gamble. He has a ceiling because of his size, already plays defense at a high level, and has improved throughout the season offensively. Think of how he looked in the beginning - he was basically unplayable. Couldn’t even shoot a free throw.

Assuming the price is right, I definitely want the kid back.

 

[chickenbox]

Dual has a very odd shooting form. Not surprising he shoots poorly

 

[shu09]

In the age of pay for play, why would you want anyone back from this train wreck? They should all be fired. So many posters suffer from Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[hallgrad80]

Teams win with talent and coaching and finding the most talented PG we can , whether it’s a returning player or a new recruit , to start next season should be a top priority for Sha and his staff,

I would just add that getting a quality PG early could energize the fan base and could help with fundraising.

 

[MBF72]

Apples to oranges as there will be a lot more money to go around from all teams this off-season. My guess on Coleman is $750,000.

Thanks. Can we pay that? What will we be able to offer him?

 

[MBF72]

We can offer unlimited PT and name your stats.

Have to think if Coleman goes to a power conference team, he will be told he will start or be in a steady rotation.
Couldn't see him taking less to play at a bottom of the league BE team even though we have to be better next year.

 

[itsacurse]

it's so dumb to expect 12 awesome new players to come in next year. you take the top 4-6 guys from this team at a minimum (yes, even if the team is bad!) and you build from there. anyone who wants to dump every single player must have some sort of brain injury

 

[NYC Pirate]

I agree with you that we can't bring in 10 new players every year, it has to be a balance. Unfortunately, they have to be willing to jettison some of the players or fan favorites to get better. We do need some players back or it will tough to be successful in the OOC games adjusting with new players.

The bottom line is that SHU Athletics are running a Big Business that helps The University's topline. Winning cures everything, but this is a good time to re-evaluate all aspects of The Program and presentation to the fanbase(customers) both on & off the court.

 

[itsacurse]

it's so dumb to expect 12 awesome new players to come in next year. you take the top 4-6 guys from this team at a minimum (yes, even if the team is bad!) and you build from there. anyone who wants to dump every single player must have some sort of brain injury

this is all price dependent but i think you gladly take back Coleman, Felton, Dual, Aligbe, Erheriene, and Middleton (hoping only 2-3 of them are starters next year). And then as essentially free bottom of the roster guys 1 or 2 of Tubek, Yalden, and Okorafor. That leaves you 4-5 spots to focus all your recruiting and money on, hoping you get 3 starters. That seems like a much better plan than TWELVE NEW PLAYERS. You try to get 12 new players you're going to wind up with 3-4 Zion Harmons again

 

[hbkmyr]

this is all price dependent but i think you gladly take back Coleman, Felton, Dual, Aligbe, Erheriene, and Middleton (hoping only 2-3 of them are starters next year). And then as essentially free bottom of the roster guys 1 or 2 of Tubek, Yalden, and Okorafor. That leaves you 4-5 spots to focus all your recruiting and money on, hoping you get 3 starters. That seems like a much better plan than TWELVE NEW PLAYERS. You try to get 12 new players you're going to wind up with 3-4 Zion Harmons again

That’s fine. Bring them back. But do it understanding they are not going to play any significant minutes, outside of Coleman.

 

[HALL85]

That’s fine. Bring them back. But do it understanding they are not going to play any significant minutes, outside of Coleman.

I would disagree. Most of those guys are freshman or sophomores. You don’t know how much they are going to improve next year. It’s a long way to go, but you could pencil in Coleman, Godswiill and Dual as starters as long as you pick up two high quality players (PG and scorer) to fill out the starting five. Middleton, Felton and Aligbe off the bench.

 

[hbkmyr]

I would disagree. Most of those guys are freshman or sophomores. You don’t know how much they are going to improve next year. It’s a long way to go, but you could pencil in Coleman, Godswiill and Dual as starters as long as you pick up two high quality players (PG and scorer) to fill out the starting five. Middleton, Felton and Aligbe off the bench.

That’s a bottom of the conference roster. We spent 3 months complaining about roster construction and now all of a sudden we want to bring 60% of the roster back. It’s like if your entire house was crumbling and you only decide to fix the kitchen and bathroom. Your asking for a huge, huge jump from these guys to take them from doormat to top half of the league.

 

[hallwins]

That’s a bottom of the conference roster. We spent 3 months complaint about roster construction and now all of a sudden we want to bring 60% of the roster back. It’s like if youre entire house was crumbling and You know decide to fix the kitchen and bathrooms

We spent 2 years complaining about NIl availability and you somehow think we are going to bring in 7 A recruits this off season.

St John's was good last year, but Pitino called out his players when we beat them at the Garden and said he needed to change the recruits he brings in. He still brought back Wilcher, Zuby and a few others and filled in with recruits.

 

[Bud Boomer]

That’s a bottom of the conference roster. We spent 3 months complaining about roster construction and now all of a sudden we want to bring 60% of the roster back. It’s like if your entire house was crumbling and you only decide to fix the kitchen and bathroom. Your asking for a huge, huge jump from these guys to take them from doormat to top half of the league.

We obviously need an infusion of talent, but young players do get better. As hallwins pointed out above, look no further than Zuby Ejiofor and Simeon Wilcher, who were scrubs last season and now start for a top 10 team. Why couldn't that be Dual or Middleton? I don't think anyone would advocate giving them big money, but we do need to fill out a 13-man roster.

 

[hbkmyr]

We spent 2 years complaining about NIl availability and you somehow think we are going to bring in 7 A recruits this off season.

St John's was good last year, but Pitino called out his players when we beat them at the Garden and said he needed to change the recruits he brings in. He still brought back Wilcher, Zuby and a few others and filled in with recruits.

No. It’s not an all or nothing scenario. You want to bring back Coleman and Dual and Middleton as bench guys. That’s ok. Supplement them with 4-5 new players. But you can’t be bringing back 5 or 6 players in from a historically bad roster.

St Johns finished 20-13/11-9. It was a much better roster.

 

[hallwins]

No. It’s not an all or nothing scenario. You want to bring back Coleman and Dual and Middleton as bench guys. That’s ok. Supplement them with 4-5 new players. But you can’t be bringing back 5 or 6 players in from a historically bad roster.

St Johns finished 20-13/11-9. It was a much better roster.

You are not saying anything differently from what I have been saying. Dual, Middleton, Godswill and Coleman are my priorities. Many would not have wanted Dual or Godswill back before the last month. I never said bring back the entire roster.