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NYC bans

Maybe a 1st amendment issue?

we have the right to protest, but we don’t have the right to go to fashion week.

Outdoor religious events would also be allowed.
 
shu09 said:
The message here is politics. Lock everything down until Trump loses, except for political activities that promote the mayor's extreme left wing views.
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No swing states care if NY has fashion week and the San gennaro festival... and I would argue the worse NY looks with more protests and increased crime, the better Trump's chances are. The Trump campaign is even using that in their ads.
 
Merge said:
No swing states care if NY has fashion week and the San gennaro festival... and I would argue the worse NY looks with more protests and increased crime, the better Trump's chances are. The Trump campaign is even using that in their ads.
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It's not about swing states. New York is the financial center of the country. If its economy struggles, the entire nation struggles. Plus, that message will be on the news every night reaching voters all across the country. See the big picture, Merge. This is a coordinated effort across many states and governors.
 
shu09 said:
It's not about swing states. New York is the financial center of the country. If its economy struggles, the entire nation struggles. Plus, that message will be on the news every night reaching voters all across the country. See the big picture, Merge. This is a coordinated effort across many states and governors.
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I do see a bigger picture. Mine just includes a global pandemic from a virus spreading through our country, the likes of which has never been experienced by any of us here, and yes... Some governors were coordinated in their efforts to mitigate the risk to the virus and those who were not coordinated in their efforts are starting to understand why those efforts were coordinated.
 
Merge said:
I do see a bigger picture. Mine just includes a global pandemic from a virus spreading through our country, the likes of which has never been experienced by any of us here, and yes... Some governors were coordinated in their efforts to mitigate the risk to the virus and those who were not coordinated in their efforts are starting to understand why those efforts were coordinated.
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Stop blowing this out of proportion. This is not the Spanish Flu. Not even close. Much more like Hong Kong flu or the 1957/58 flu.

The difference now is we have shameless politicians who think they can control everything and use this incident to push through what they've always wanted. Big government and control over the population.
 
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shu09 said:
Stop blowing this out of proportion. This is not the Spanish Flu. Not even close. Much more like Hong Kong flu or the 1957/58 flu.

The difference now is we have shameless politicians who think they can control everything and use this incident to push through what they've always wanted. Big government and control over the population.
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kinda strange tho, a simple virus like the flu doesnt extend itself into deep july during a heatwave. meanwhile the sun/bible belt states are basically worse than entire countries right now. its not "nothing".

swedens plan didnt work, but japans did. wear masks everwhere people. limit human interaction.
 
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shu09 said:
Stop blowing this out of proportion. This is not the Spanish Flu. Not even close. Much more like Hong Kong flu or the 1957/58 flu.

The difference now is we have shameless politicians who think they can control everything and use this incident to push through what they've always wanted. Big government and control over the population.
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Unfortunately, I have been one of the only ones here to understand the proportion of this from the start. We haven't done enough to mitigate the risks from this virus, and it is exactly because of the shameless politicians who ignored the science.

Speaking of proportion... This is why I ask for numbers.
So we an understand the context of what we are debating.

shu09 said:
You also said that 100-200,000 people are going to die of this. That is not true. I suggest you view this model, which estimates a little over 60,000 people will die in the US of this virus: https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america That is far less than the number you provided.

Believe in the science. Believe in the facts.
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shu09 said:
It's already at an acceptable threshold. We could lose even more people and it would still be acceptable.
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shu09 said:
Acceptable is different, given the situation that we face because of China's recklessness. This is a war, the politicians say. Well, wars have casualties. I would say something under 100,000 would be acceptable. We will come in well under that according to most models. 100,000 is 0.03% of the US population.
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So under 100k would be "acceptable" back then.
Now it looks as if it will be at least twice that and you still think efforts to contain it is all about politics.

Can't even see your goal posts anymore you have moved them so far.
 
SHUSA said:
kinda strange tho, a simple virus like the flu doesnt extend itself into deep july during a heatwave. meanwhile the sun/bible belt states are basically worse than entire countries right now. its not "nothing".

swedens plan didnt work, but japans did. wear masks everwhere people. limit human interaction.
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Sweden has done quite well, actually. They didn't blow up their way of life.
 
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Merge said:
Unfortunately, I have been one of the only ones here to understand the proportion of this from the start. We haven't done enough to mitigate the risks from this virus, and it is exactly because of the shameless politicians who ignored the science.

Speaking of proportion... This is why I ask for numbers.
So we an understand the context of what we are debating.







So under 100k would be "acceptable" back then.
Now it looks as if it will be at least twice that and you still think efforts to contain it is all about politics.

Can't even see your goal posts anymore you have moved them so far.
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You can't stop nature. The virus is running its course (as I have said from the beginning). In a month or two you will see cases, hospitalizations and deaths decline in the states that are "hot" right now, just as it did in NY/NJ/CT/PA. People will die. Sad, but life goes on. We cannot sacrifice our way of life and our society in the false hope of saving people who are doomed.
 
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shu09 said:
You can't stop nature. The virus is running its course (as I have said from the beginning). In a month or two you will see cases, hospitalizations and deaths decline in the states that are "hot" right now, just as it did in NY/NJ/CT/PA. People will die. Sad, but life goes on. We cannot sacrifice our way of life and our society in the false hope of saving people who are doomed.
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Sorry, "you can't stop nature" is just nonsense. You have agreed that mitigation efforts would be worth it if this virus was more deadly, right? So you would agree we actually could have an impact on "nature" in that case, right?

So you just think that how deadly this virus is, it is not worth the economic costs. Your threshold used to be under 100,000 deaths. Now it is well over 200,000.

Yes, hospitalizations and deaths will decline in areas where they start to take the risk seriously. Not because it has run it's course. Left to run its course, this virus would kill over a million Americans.

All we had to do was all agree to shut down for a short period of time, and agree we all need to wear masks as we open up. What is happening in Florida and Texas was not inevitable.
 
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Merge said:
Sorry, "you can't stop nature" is just nonsense. You have agreed that mitigation efforts would be worth it if this virus was more deadly, right? So you would agree we actually could have an impact on "nature" in that case, right?

So you just think that how deadly this virus is, it is not worth the economic costs. Your threshold used to be under 100,000 deaths. Now it is well over 200,000.

Yes, hospitalizations and deaths will decline in areas where they start to take the risk seriously. Not because it has run it's course. Left to run its course, this virus would kill over a million Americans.

All we had to do was all agree to shut down for a short period of time, and agree we all need to wear masks as we open up. What is happening in Florida and Texas was not inevitable.
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I have no threshold. I have learned more about this virus over time. We cannot stop it from running its course.

We did not shut down for a short period of time. It was months, and we're still not fully opened.
 
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Question I would like to know, how were NJ total deaths in May and June of this year compared to previous years. Obviously, March and April were much higher due to huge amount of coranavirus deaths, but has it evened back out now to normal levels, still increased or even decreased since the virus knocked out many vulnerable people in earlier months.
 
SHUSA said:
wait so whats a vaccine? whats medicine?
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I mean through the course of what we're doing now. Of course, stuff like that can prevent illness and death.

Although technically a vaccine produces an immune response to fight off the virus. It doesn't actually prevent you from "getting" it.
 
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Merge said:
That is just not true. Other countries have managed to do it.
Only reason we haven't is because our culture of divisiveness is absolute shit.
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It ran its course in other countries. They got hit before even NY/NJ.
 
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SHUSA said:
kinda strange tho, a simple virus like the flu doesnt extend itself into deep july during a heatwave.
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Does having a flu vaccine have anything to do with that? And how many people still get the flu each year?

2 straight days now of less deaths nationwide.

Still a serious issue but not a death sentence as far too many would have you believe.
 
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This thread has gone off the rails. Regardless of the virus intensity, allowing 1 group freedom while every thing else is canceled is shameful and illegal. If I lived in NYC i would not comply with this directive as long as BLM is allowed freedoms others are being denied
 
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SPK145 said:
Does having a flu vaccine have anything to do with that? And how many people still get the flu each year?

2 straight days now of less deaths nationwide.

Still a serious issue but not a death sentence as far too many would have you believe.
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i agree. i remain in the middle of the spectrum. to say that this is just something ordinary is wrong. (total overall population deaths are up, showing it is indeed a problem). saying that you cant stop nature is a bit false when you consider the definition of medicine itself.

ignoring this thing is clearly not the right call in a country like the US with massive cities, transportation systems, and diverse population.
 
kniespolice said:
This thread has gone off the rails. Regardless of the virus intensity, allowing 1 group freedom while every thing else is canceled is shameful and illegal. If I lived in NYC i would not comply with this directive as long as BLM is allowed freedoms others are being denied
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1st amendment man.

Go start a protest or outdoor religious event in NY. It will be allowed.
 
gonna be great to see the spinzone people put on protests and religious events.

this 4 course BBQ is actually the body of christ, our organist is actually a Hot 97 DJ, and ive already had about 8 blood of christs and its only 3pm!

(catholic man cover your ears)
 
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SHUSA said:
gonna be great to see the spinzone people put on protests and religious events.

this 4 course BBQ is actually the body of christ, our organist is actually a Hot 97 DJ, and ive already had about 8 blood of christs and its only 3pm!

(catholic man cover your ears)
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It will be. Blame the mayor for that. That guy is no leader.
 
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kniespolice said:
He said 2 straight days of less deaths. By your own numbers he would be correct. 993 on July 7 is greater than 890 and 960 on the 8th and 9th.
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But those three days are the highest the daily death toll has been in a month...
Deaths are starting to increase. That is not a good thing.
 
Merge said:
But those three days are the highest the daily death toll has been in a month...
Deaths are starting to increase. That is not a good thing.
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I'm not arguing that, but knowknow completely twisted what spk said.
 
kniespolice said:
I'm not arguing that, but knowknow completely twisted what spk said.
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I stand by what I said. There were not "2 straight days now of less deaths nationwide" Deaths increased on the second day from 890 to 960. If you want to interpret his comment as we haven't hit 993 deaths in two days, I have no problem with that.
 
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knowknow456 said:
I stand by what I said. There were not "2 straight days now of less deaths nationwide" Deaths increased on the second day from 890 to 960. If you want to interpret his comment as we haven't hit 993 deaths in two days, I have no problem with that.
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yea thats an espn-esque stat spk threw out
 
Merge said:
False.

Sweden 545 deaths per million.
Norway 46
Finland 59

How were 2 surrounding countries able to avoid it running its course?
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So what? 545 deaths per one million. Do you realize how small that is?
 
shu09 said:
So what? 545 deaths per one million. Do you realize how small that is?
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Yes.

Do you agree that their neighbors contained the virus and that it needing to "run its course" is not true at all?

That Sweden was still placing certain restrictions, and their citizens were much more compliant than US citizens in risk mitigation and still had a much worse response than their neighbors?
 
Merge said:
Yes.

Do you agree that their neighbors contained the virus and that it needing to "run its course" is not true at all?
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No.
Merge said:
That Sweden was still placing certain restrictions, and their citizens were much more compliant than US citizens in risk mitigation and still had a much worse response than their neighbors?
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So restrictions don't work. Thanks, that is what I've been saying.
 
shu09 said:
No.
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I mean, ok... but the facts are they were able to stop the spread of this virus in many countries. It didn't have to work it's way through the population. They stopped it.
You're not having an honest debate if you ignore that fact.

shu09 said:
So restrictions don't work. Thanks, that is what I've been saying.
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They do work. Sweden had less restrictions than their neighbors and their neighbors had better results.

The US will do worse than Sweden because the south couldn't be bothered to wear a mask.
 
SPK145 said:
Wrong per Merge's site:

https://covidtracking.com/data

July 7 - 922 deaths
July 8 - 897 deaths
July 9 - 867 deaths
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what on earth is your 3 day stat trying to claim? i honestly cant understand. "2 straight days of less death now"

obviously based on the stat you mean new deaths. ok 2 straight days of decreasing new death (increases). so what? i just graphed the death increas per day. its on a downward trajectory which is great, but its had 2day decreases a zillion times.

what are you trying to say with that stat?

XPzod1S.png
 
SHUSA said:
what on earth is your 3 day stat trying to claim? i honestly cant understand. "2 straight days of less death now"

obviously based on the stat you mean new deaths. ok 2 straight days of decreasing new death (increases). so what? i just graphed the death increas per day. its on a downward trajectory which is great, but its had 2day decreases a zillion times.

what are you trying to say with that stat?
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1) Contrasting the silliness of some pointing out the increases in new cases, new hospitalizations, etc. every day, etc.

2) Pointing out how low actual deaths are per day now.

If you were following along, you'd note how I have always said the day of the week affects reporting.
 
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