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OBAMA

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49ers10

All Big East
Gold Member
Apr 28, 2006
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He said the election would be a referendum on him and his administration and it was, no matter how you spin it, Obama and his party got buried.

He said he could not legally change the immigration laws, he would be by-passing the Constitution, breaking the law, could not do it without congresses' approval, etc., etc.

Yet, this is exactly what he is doing.

I could say a lot more however I will leave with this thought, Reverend Al Sharpton is one of his "Advisors"-that says it all!
This post was edited on 11/23 11:51 AM by 49ers10
 
This isn't a matter of his actions being legal or not, but another sign that he just doesn't get it. If all of these actions agains illegals were so egregious, why didn't he act a long time ago instead of letting Congress bicker about it for months? Because it wasn't politically expiditious, that's why. Obama just continues to demonstrate he has no interest in governing...just wants to advance his agenda on his terms.
 
Originally posted by HALL85:

This isn't a matter of his actions being legal or not, but another sign that he just doesn't get it. If all of these actions agains illegals were so egregious, why didn't he act a long time ago instead of letting Congress bicker about it for months? Because it wasn't politically expiditious, that's why. Obama just continues to demonstrate he has no interest in governing...just wants to advance his agenda on his terms.
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He has been talking about doing this for years. The fight with Congress would require political capital which he just hasn't had.

He couldn't do it before the midterms as it would be campaign fodder, so he did it now.

Obama is correct that this issue is going nowhere without some type of amnesty. Where we go from here will be very interesting as the Latino vote is becoming more and more important. If I am a Republican politician, I would be convincing everyone else to get in line with a bill to pass something on immigration that Obama would actually sign.

If they don't, their 2016 candidate will be forced to say whether or not they will overturn the executive order.
Say yes and lose Latino's... say no and lose the base. Republicans have a chance to be the party to create the bill that passes, lets see if they are smart enough to do it.

I don't agree that he has no interest in governing. He knows that there is a zero percent chance of getting this issue through congress. He took the only step he could to actually govern.
 
Obama got this one right.

As much as I think we should deport all illegal immigrants (they ARE criminals, they broke the law), I realize it is nearly impossible and unrealistic to enforce. I think selectively looking at who to deport is a more realistic idea (criminals, not families, etc.). I am glad the President is not granting US citizenship or permanent residence to those he is shielding from deportation. That is a good move. I am anti-amnesty and this plan is not that.

Anything that proposes the so-called "pathway to citizenship" or amnesty is a plan I cannot support. The Obama plan as outlined last week is a fair and balanced approach to this issue.
 
I didn't say it being illegal, Obama did on camera in the past and many other things on this subject 25 times on camera and he is still going to do it!

How about the people that went through the steps to become citizens legally?
 
President GW Bush put forth a immigration plan that was opposed by the Dems and favored by the Republicans. It was defeated. President Obama came up with a very similar plan that the Dems approve & the Republicans oppose. This is total hippocracy by both parties. Unfortunately our elected officials seem to think that their obligation is to represent their particular party rather than to do what is right for America. Seems that both parties want to talk about an immigration problem & use it as a campaign issue but do nothing about it. Same goes with just about every other issue facing our nation also.

Tom K
 
Originally posted by SnakeTom:
Seems that both parties want to talk about an immigration problem & use it as a campaign issue but do nothing about it. Same goes with just about every other issue facing our nation also.

Tom K
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+1

which is why I think this move by Obama was the best thing to progress the issue and it was needed to make something actually happen.

I can't see a republican president in the near future without the right shifting left on this issue.
 
I agree with Tom's statement. It seems like both parties are more concerned with votes to stay in power as opposed to actually fixing some problems.
 
Originally posted by SnakeTom:
President GW Bush put forth a immigration plan that was opposed by the Dems and favored by the Republicans. It was defeated. President Obama came up with a very similar plan that the Dems approve & the Republicans oppose. This is total hippocracy by both parties. Unfortunately our elected officials seem to think that their obligation is to represent their particular party rather than to do what is right for America. Seems that both parties want to talk about an immigration problem & use it as a campaign issue but do nothing about it. Same goes with just about every other issue facing our nation also.

Tom K
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Agree Tom. Both parties have been guilty and Obama is following suit. He could care less about immigrants and their rights...this is all about the Hispanic vote and protecting it. He's shown no leadership in this matter, much like his predecessors.
 
Originally posted by HALL85:

Originally posted by SnakeTom:
President GW Bush put forth a immigration plan that was opposed by the Dems and favored by the Republicans. It was defeated. President Obama came up with a very similar plan that the Dems approve & the Republicans oppose. This is total hippocracy by both parties. Unfortunately our elected officials seem to think that their obligation is to represent their particular party rather than to do what is right for America. Seems that both parties want to talk about an immigration problem & use it as a campaign issue but do nothing about it. Same goes with just about every other issue facing our nation also.

Tom K
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Agree Tom. Both parties have been guilty and Obama is following suit. He could care less about immigrants and their rights...this is all about the Hispanic vote and protecting it. He's shown no leadership in this matter, much like his predecessors.
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85 and TomK are correct!
 
Everything Obama says does not mean anything. He changes his mind according to the situation. No integrity. Worst and most dangerous President we ever had, no foreign country respects us, he bows to the leaders in the Mid-East countries while ignoring our only true ally, Israel , wants a Nuclear Treaty with Iran, etc.

..the United States is not an exceptional country; there is no such thing as a "self-made successful man" in this country, he need the government's help; if you want you can keep you insurance carrier; Mr. Rodney Russia was a threat during the Cold War no longer; Ebola will never reach the U.S, ISIS is a JV a Terrorist Group, etc., etc.
 
Totally agree 49er. The man is a PHONEY.I'm to the point where I can no longer watch or listen to him without my blood boiling. Jan,20, 2017. 784 more days of this.
 
Originally posted by 49ers10:
Everything Obama says does not mean anything. He changes his mind according to the situation. No integrity. Worst and most dangerous President we ever had, no foreign country respects us, he bows to the leaders in the Mid-East countries while ignoring our only true ally, Israel , wants a Nuclear Treaty with Iran, etc.

..the United States is not an exceptional country; there is no such thing as a "self-made successful man" in this country, he need the government's help; if you want you can keep you insurance carrier; Mr. Rodney Russia was a threat during the Cold War no longer; Ebola will never reach the U.S, ISIS is a JV a Terrorist Group, etc., etc.
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They don't call him the Liar in Chief for nothing. He has earned it!
 
Originally posted by 49ers10:
Everything Obama says does not mean anything. He changes his mind according to the situation. No integrity. Worst and most dangerous President we ever had, no foreign country respects us, he bows to the leaders in the Mid-East countries while ignoring our only true ally, Israel , wants a Nuclear Treaty with Iran, etc.
Click to expand...
You don't want an agreement with Iran? Not dealing with them is dangerous because if we don't use diplomacy, it will eventually lead to war whether that's 5, 10 or 20 years from now.

I think this President has done a very good job on foreign policy, I just wish we would get out of Iraq and Afghanistan for good. Let them kill each other if they want, it should not be our problem.
 
Originally posted by 49ers10:


..the United States is not an exceptional country; there is no such thing as a "self-made successful man" in this country, he need the government's help; if you want you can keep you insurance carrier; Mr. Rodney Russia was a threat during the Cold War no longer; Ebola will never reach the U.S, ISIS is a JV a Terrorist Group, etc., etc.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you're the one telling lies. I've heard this President on multiple occasions talk about American leadership and exceptionalism. It's funny you mention the healthcare issue. Obamacare hasn't forced me off my current (and previous) health plan. I've wanted to keep it and I've kept it. He never said Ebola wouldn't reach the US. He said it would not become a major problem here if we take steps to contain it, which we did. It is not a threat, nor will it ever be. Will there be a case or two here and there? Maybe. Similar to the Ferguson stuff, the media blew the Ebola thing way out or proportion.

His statement on ISIS was not smart, I'll give you that. However, I don't believe they are a threat to this country at this time. But I just wish we would stay out of that area of the world once and for all.
 
If you don't think ISIS is a threat to this country, even now. I think you're being naive.
 
Originally posted by HALL85:
If you don't think ISIS is a threat to this country, even now. I think you're being naive.
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Please explain how they are a threat.

It's just more hype from a complicit media, neocons and the military industrial complex who just push for endless war. I have never seen a group take advantage of a tragedy like 9/11 and try to scare Americans even more. Unfortunately, most people don't take the time to see through the BS. Make no mistake, 9/11 is the root cause of almost anything that has happened over the last 13+ years on the international front. Nobody has profited more from it than the hawks and those in the military industrial complex and now that 9/11 is fading in some people's minds, they need a new threat to keep the propaganda and fear going.
 
The fact that they are beheading Americans makes me think they are a threat. How is that manufactured?

Wasn't there also a case recently where an attack was foiled in Australia? Sorry but I don't buy the hawk conspiracy theories. I hope I'm wrong but I wouldn't be surprised to see attempts at Americans on our soil within the next twelve months.
 
Originally posted by HALL85:
The fact that they are beheading Americans makes me think they are a threat. How is that manufactured?

Wasn't there also a case recently where an attack was foiled in Australia? Sorry but I don't buy the hawk conspiracy theories. I hope I'm wrong but I wouldn't be surprised to see attempts at Americans on our soil within the next twelve months.
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Exactly what those who pull the strings want you to believe. Just because they are doing it to a handful of people in Syria and Iraq doesn't mean they'll do it here, as awful as it is.

I did see that news about Australia, but no details have been released since it was announced. America and the rest of the free world will always be a target of terrorism.

I know you didn't say these words, but I just don't believe ISIS is a threat to carry out mass casualty attacks in this country. I guess we have a differing view of what a "threat" is. As I said, this country will always be a target. But I don't go to sleep at night fearing an attack.
 
Hoover, Carter and Oblunder are the worst Presidents this Country has ever seen, I Hillary get elected in 2016, she will also be on the list.
 
09, ISIS murdered Americans. That's a fact. Since it's only a handful does that not matter?

I don't go to bed fearing an attack, but rather accept that it is likely to happen again unless we remain vigilant and even then there is so much you can do.
 
Real Facts

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obama_economic_record.jpg
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This post was edited on 11/28 11:20 PM by SHUMike
 
The unemployment rate is 8.5%? Gas prices are $3.39? Says who? By the way, the President has NOTHING to do with gas prices. When they spiked under George W. Bush, people unjustifiably blamed him. Same with Obama.

Just goes to show you how people can flat out lie and make believe what they say is fact, on both sides. People also twist facts to fit their agenda all the time.
This post was edited on 11/28 11:25 PM by shu09
 
09 is right. Stats can be misleading. It's more meaningful to analyze what the major initiatives in a Presidents agenda were, and a) if he/she accomplished them and b) what were the results.
 
Originally posted by HALL85:
09 is right. Stats can be misleading. It's more meaningful to analyze what the major initiatives in a Presidents agenda were, and a) if he/she accomplished them and b) what were the results.
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Agree. Obviously we have a disagreement on some of that analysis, lol.
 
The Prez claimed to be a constitutional scholar. Next thing you know he'll claim to be a rocket scientist. Remember if you like your doctor you can keep him as your doctor. One thing is for sure - he is a LIAR!
 
Anyone find the hypocracy that we can be so horrified by these interrogation techniques and how Un-American it is, but on the other had we have no issue deploying drone attackes that have killed hundreds of civilians and children. That is American?
 
Originally posted by HALL85:
Anyone find the hypocracy that we can be so horrified by these interrogation techniques and how Un-American it is, but on the other had we have no issue deploying drone attackes that have killed hundreds of civilians and children. That is American?
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It seems to me that both objections were made cause the other side did it, and if Bush did the drones and Obama the torture, the objections would be modified accordingly. And that a pol is duplicitous in their criticism doesn't mean the criticism is wrong, just that the pol is not a valid person to be making the point.

I do not think Arabs need any new excuses to hate us.

I don't like the idea of drones killing civilians. And I don't like the idea of terrorists using civilians as shields. I didn't like reading about the fire bombing of Dresden, or the interment of the Japanese.

The CIA has a long history of secrecy/lying to the govt. They blatantly lied to the Warren Commission in their investigation of JFK's murder! They lied to JFK about the Bay of Pigs. Their thinking on Cuba could have lead to a nuclear holocaust if JFK listened to the unanimous military advice he was receiving

I don't have any solutions. And I don't like the smell of it. And I tend to think that doing what they do under the best supervision as is possible may be the best way to proceed, and that while the pres and congressional leaders deserve full disclosure, I don't.

Of course, a part of me is with SPK and the Libertarians who want us to get our asses out of these foreign countries, stop trying to influence how they govern.

I often wonder if we never entered WWI, how the history of the 20th century may have been different.
 
Originally posted by HALL85:
Anyone find the hypocracy that we can be so horrified by these interrogation techniques and how Un-American it is, but on the other had we have no issue deploying drone attackes that have killed hundreds of civilians and children. That is American?
Click to expand...
If it's really in the national security I have no problem with either.

I do question why we ever invaded Iraq, but we were attacked by Al Queda and fighting back against them and their allies with whatever tools we have is totally justified.

Tom K
 
Originally posted by SnakeTom:

Originally posted by HALL85:
Anyone find the hypocracy that we can be so horrified by these interrogation techniques and how Un-American it is, but on the other had we have no issue deploying drone attackes that have killed hundreds of civilians and children. That is American?
Click to expand...
If it's really in the national security I have no problem with either.

I do question why we ever invaded Iraq, but we were attacked by Al Queda and fighting back against them and their allies with whatever tools we have is totally justified.

Tom K
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I question why we didn't invade Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq since that is where the terrorists who attacked the U.S. on 9/11 were based and supported, but I already know the answer to that.
 
Originally posted by Seton75:


It seems to me that both objections were made cause the other side did it, and if Bush did the drones and Obama the torture, the objections would be modified accordingly.

The CIA has a long history of secrecy/lying to the govt. They blatantly lied to the Warren Commission in their investigation of JFK's murder! They lied to JFK about the Bay of Pigs. Their thinking on Cuba could have lead to a nuclear holocaust if JFK listened to the unanimous military advice he was receiving

Of course, a part of me is with SPK and the Libertarians who want us to get our asses out of these foreign countries, stop trying to influence how they govern.

I often wonder if we never entered WWI, how the history of the 20th century may have been different.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
How's this from a Conservative: I detest the torture, and I think drones belong in the tactical arsenal but should be used for targets no different than if humans were aboard. Just safer.

I am in the dark about all the blatant lying on JFK assassination and unanimous bad nuclear war advice on Cuba. Would love to hear more.

Finally, a favorite. If US/Wilson did not enter WWI, then seems that a stalemate would be the probable result. No Versailles, no Hitler?? I suspect so. WW I was the silliest war ever (The Guns of August - Tuchman).
 
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