Pac-12 leaders presented with Apple streaming deal

[SOBO1]

I don't think it's a dumb question, I think it's an incomplete one. Arguably what you want to say is if Connecticut is currently getting 4.5 million in the Big East and another half million from CBS Sportsnet, then isn't there value only $5 million. That's not an unfair statement. Of course by the same logic the Big East should get an increase in its next contract because we only make 4 1/2 million per school now so that's our value.

The argument, as I understand it is that we are additive to the big 12 because we extend their presence into the New York metro area in the East Coast. Our men's basketball is indisputably the best in the country over the past quarter century and the women's basketball program is historic in terms of what it has achieved. Football is coming off a 10 year historical run of suck, but BY has commented that he thinks we have the right guy in place to correct it in believes that will happen prior to the next big 12 contract. He came to Storrs and toured the facilities and understands that we never gave up on football. Our facilities are already say upper 25% in the P5. Yormark also thinks that basketball has been dramatically undervalued for years. He is planning on splitting the football and basketball contracts during their next negotiation. He believes that that will result in a significantly higher value than selling them on a combined basis. With the addition of UConn he has the immediate three pass national champions in men's basketball in the best men's and women's combo in the country. Before you say no one cares about women's basketball, BY specifically mentioned our program and its strength as being additive to the big 12 which already has decent women's basketball.

So given all of that, why aren't we a sure thing? Well, if the scuttlebutt is to be believed the big 12 presidents had some reluctance of bringing in a notoriously weak football school and particularly one located on the east coast. Ultimately, they have the decision, but given Yormark's track record it is reported that he has considerable sway among the presidents.

That's the current status as I understand it.

I understand that the Big12 may want a stronger east coast presence, but what does that have to do with ESPN/Fox? ESPN/FOX already have an east coast presence - this isn't an untapped market for them. Uconn collective media rights are worth ~$5M but ESPN states they are willing to pay $31M+ for them? Just seems odd from an outsider perspective, but TV execs obviously know what they are doing.

 

[CL82]

I understand that the Big12 may want a stronger east coast presence, but what does that have to do with ESPN/Fox? ESPN/FOX already have an east coast presence - this isn't an untapped market for them. Uconn collective media rights are worth ~$5M but ESPN states they are willing to pay $31M+ for them? Just seems odd from an outsider perspective, but TV execs obviously know what they are doing.

I hear what you're saying, but apparently they do. On the other hand, a former FOX executive has said "why would I want to pay a little over twice what I'm paying now for Connecticut and not even get exclusive access to all of their games?" which was an interesting observation.

 

[SOBO1]

OK, should we also discount last year's national championship because it wasn't as a "long-standing member" of the new Big East? I'd be OK with that because then we would get to keep our last year's NCAA revenue.

I really don't want to get in a back and forth, but I feel like you're just being a controvert for the sake of being a controvert. It's disingenuous to not acknowledge that the 2014 team's success is largely attributable to being 10 months removed from the BigEast (i.e. roster holdover). Similarly, it's disingenuous to insinuate that the roster makeup of the 2023 team isn't correlated to rejoining Big East three years earlier. There were no American holdovers on the 2023 team. The entire fabric of the 2023 team was BigEast players - so was 2014.

UConn KenPom Ranking since realignment is below.

2014: 15 (American)
2015: 73
2016: 26
2017: 96
2018: 179
2019: 98
2020: 52
2021: 21 (BigEast)
2022: 22
2023: 1

 

[SPK145]

It seems that you, like pretty much everyone else, are focusing solely conference revenue. In order to do an examination of the fiscal impact you also have to look at the reduction of expense. Particularly, in this case the savings of about $2 million per year in travel expenses.

There was no reduction in UCONN's athletic spending from its last 2 years in the AAC to its first 2 years in the BE factoring in no football in 2020 and Ollie's settlement in 2022. None.

On the big east side it doesn't seem to include NCAA tournament credits? It looks too low for that. Also, just curious, why was there a reduced share for Connecticut in 2021? I'm not doubting your figures, I'm just curious.

Yes, reduced NCAA tournament credits for UCONN in those 2 years, that makes up $1,357,062 of the difference. For analysis:

UCONN 2021 BE share = $3,040,423
Average 2021 share for the rest of the conference = $3,605,831

UCONN 2022 BE share = $4,297,595
Average 2022 share for the rest of the conference = $5,089,249

No reduced share in 2021 for UCONN, that was pretty much what everyone got for that year due to reduced revenues for the conference still suffering the effects of COVID.

Other things to consider would include additional sales of merchandise, the renegotiation of our Nike and LeerField deals and additional ticket sales due to being in the Big East.

Certainly.

 

[CL82]

I really don't want to get in a back and forth, but I feel like you're just being a controvert for the sake of being a controvert. It's disingenuous to not acknowledge that the 2014 team's success is largely attributable to being 10 months removed from the BigEast (i.e. roster holdover). Similarly, it's disingenuous to insinuate that the roster makeup of the 2023 team isn't correlated to rejoining Big East three years earlier. There were no American holdovers on the 2023 team. The entire fabric of the 2023 team was BigEast players - so was 2014.

UConn KenPom Ranking since realignment is below.

2014: 15 (American)
2015: 73
2016: 26
2017: 96
2018: 179
2019: 98
2020: 52
2021: 21 (BigEast)
2022: 22
2023: 1

Is controvert a noun now? Oh well, it doesn't matter.

So you do realize that those rankings you listed support the notion that Ally stopped working after he won the national championship, right?

 

[CL82]

There was no reduction in UCONN's athletic spending from its last 2 years in the AAC to its first 2 years in the BE factoring in no football in 2020 and Ollie's settlement in 2022. None.



Yes, reduced NCAA tournament credits for UCONN in those 2 years, that makes up $1,357,062 of the difference. For analysis:

UCONN 2021 BE share = $3,040,423
Average 2021 share for the rest of the conference = $3,605,831

UCONN 2022 BE share = $4,297,595
Average 2022 share for the rest of the conference = $5,089,249

No reduced share in 2021 for UCONN, that was pretty much what everyone got for that year due to reduced revenues for the conference still suffering the effects of COVID.



Certainly.

Interesting stuff. Thank you for taking the time to put this all together. What are the factors that cause different shares among conference members? Was it just Connecticut's agreement not to get a share of any NCAA credits earned prior to its joining the big east?

 

[SOBO1]

Is controvert a noun now? Oh well, it doesn't matter.

So you do realize that those rankings you listed support the notion that Ally stopped working after he won the national championship, right?

I recognize there are a lot of factors at play here. I don’t know that Kevin Ollie stopped working. All I know is Kevin Ollie was hand picked by Jim Calhoun to carry on his legacy and the rug was kind of pulled out from underneath him by being placed in a mid major conference with no northeast footprint. Personally I think your passion for UConn is influencing your opinion here but I’ll drop the issue.

 

[hinson32]

Difficult to quantify things like this, but there is a value directly attributable to UConn basketball that wasn’t there when playing in the American.

For example, UConn likely saw an increase in donations, memorabilia sales, etc. directly following the national championship. It’s speculative but reasonable to assume they weren’t winning the championship in the American.

They won a Natty in the AAC as well

 

[radecicco]

Lol, well, first FSU isn't going anywhere. If they really believed the GOR was vulnerable, they would be gone today rather than resorting to public temper tantrums as their primary tactic to increase their earnings. That said, in 10 years or so when they actually do leave, the ACC will be grateful to scrape together whatever they can. That is likely to end up being our home. It will be a second or third tier conference, however. Basically, the ACC is going to be "big easted" by ESPN. I find the irony in that satisfying.

For what it's worth, if I was the ACC commissioner, I would call their bluff and tell them to either submit their withdrawal paperwork or quit their whining. I if they actually did try to withdraw, and were successful, the ACC would get an immediate influx of a half billion dollars, or perhaps more. That should be enough to satisfy the remaining teams for the rest of the GOR.

Totally agree about Florida State. They are just mouthing off and the UNC AD called them out on it today. For all their big talk they have no landing spot. The SEC has never said they wanted Florida State. Plus they can’t get out of the GOR.

 

[TomD82]

Here is a link to what the AAC revenues and payments to schools were in 2022. Now they did have huge exit fees revenue in 2022, but still with NCAA football revenue their NCAA revenue is more than the BE media revenue. There is no way UConn is making more in the BE even factoring in any reduced travel costs.

UCF receives $8.8 million annual payout from AAC

The American Athletic Conference received $51 million in exit fees partly from UCF, Cincinnati and Houston leaving for the Big 12. According to the most recent 990 tax documents obtained by the Orl…

www.orlandosentinel.com

 

[SPK145]

Interesting stuff. Thank you for taking the time to put this all together. What are the factors that cause different shares among conference members? Was it just Connecticut's agreement not to get a share of any NCAA credits earned prior to its joining the big east?

Part of it was the NCAA credits thing.

In the BE, the main drivers of different revenue shares are total number of athletic scholaships given and reimbursement of post-season travel.

 

[CL82]

I recognize there are a lot of factors at play here. I don’t know that Kevin Ollie stopped working. All I know is Kevin Ollie was hand picked by Jim Calhoun to carry on his legacy and the rug was kind of pulled out from underneath him by being placed in a mid major conference with no northeast footprint. Personally I think your passion for UConn is influencing your opinion here but I’ll drop the issue.

I'm not surprised that you don't know because you don't follow Connecticut, but that is exactly what happened. After the championship Ollie also cut all ties with Calhoun. They remain estranged to this day.

 

[CL82]

Here is a link to what the AAC revenues and payments to schools were in 2022. Now they did have huge exit fees revenue in 2022, but still with NCAA football revenue their NCAA revenue is more than the BE media revenue. There is no way UConn is making more in the BE even factoring in any reduced travel costs.

UCF receives $8.8 million annual payout from AAC

The American Athletic Conference received $51 million in exit fees partly from UCF, Cincinnati and Houston leaving for the Big 12. According to the most recent 990 tax documents obtained by the Orl…

www.orlandosentinel.com

It was a 94% increase from the previous year when the league posted $93,996,015 total revenue.

The increase can be attributed to several factors, including a surge in media rights money from $52.15 million in 2020-21 to $65.24 million in 2021-22.

Another significant source of income comes from $51.5 million in exit fees, with the Big 12-bound schools UCF, Cincinnati and Houstonpaying $18 million each for their early departures over the next several years.

It looks like there's been a dramatic revenue bump since the last time I paid any attention to it including 51 1/2 million for exit fees.

 

[CL82]

Part of it was the NCAA credits thing.

In the BE, the main drivers of different revenue shares are total number of athletic scholaships given and reimbursement of post-season travel.

I'd be surprised if anyone offers more scholarships to student athletes then Connecticut in the conference, but I've never looked it up.

 

[TomD82]

Seton Hall offers what 9 sports for DI that comply with Title IX? It has been reported that the NCAA encourages the conferences to share NCAA basketball units equally, but there is no requirement to do so and most don't. So if schools need to pay for post season travel the conference reimburses for that it seems. It was reported that the NCAA booked UConn in the Luxor for the regionals and the place was a dump so they checked into another hotel, but had to pay for all that.

Ironic how now Miami, Florida State and other ACC teams are asking for success payments from the ACC.

 

[CL82]

Seton Hall offers what 9 sports for DI that comply with Title IX? It has been reported that the NCAA encourages the conferences to share NCAA basketball units equally, but there is no requirement to do so and most don't. So if schools need to pay for post season travel the conference reimburses for that it seems. It was reported that the NCAA booked UConn in the Luxor for the regionals and the place was a dump so they checked into another hotel, but had to pay for all that.

Ironic how now Miami, Florida State and other ACC teams are asking for success payments from the ACC.

They moved us to a better place, but yeah they did originally dump us in that crap hole.

 

[williaza01]

I'd be surprised if anyone offers more scholarships to student athletes then Connecticut in the conference, but I've never looked it up.

ive tried to explain this before. UConn is a good athletics department. very underrated in how they have upgraded facilities and premier basketball. When you compare it to small private catholic institutions you are rock stars. When you compare it to other flagship state universities it is Average/slightly above average at best.

Part of this is scholarships. Said this so many times...UConn recently CUT sports.

PS: I'd be shocked if you offered more than Georgetown.

 

[CL82]

ive tried to explain this before. UConn is a good athletics department. very underrated in how they have upgraded facilities and premier basketball. When you compare it to small private catholic institutions you are rock stars. When you compare it to other flagship state universities it is Average/slightly above average at best.

Part of this is scholarships. Said this so many times...UConn recently CUT sports.

PS: I'd be shocked if you offered more than Georgetown.

Well, if 24 national championships are slightly above average, then I agree, but most schools don't sniff a national championship. Likewise just last season Connecticut had five teams that were in the top 15 over the course of the year in their respective sports. That's significantly better than slightly above average.

Fully agree that when you compare us to the absolute top of the P5, which is sure looking like it might rapidly become the P4 by the end of the day, we are definitely a step down from them, probably in everything but… National championships.

Yeah, I forgot about Georgetown, what are they offering something like 30 sports altogether?

 

[williaza01]

Well, if 24 national championships are slightly above average, then I agree, but most schools don't sniff a national championship. Likewise just last season Connecticut had five teams that were in the top 15 over the course of the year in their respective sports. That's significantly better than slightly above average.

Fully agree that when you compare us to the absolute top of the P5, which is sure looking like it might rapidly become the P4 by the end of the day, we are definitely a step down from them, probably in everything but… National championships.

Yeah, I forgot about Georgetown, what are they offering something like 30 sports altogether?

You repeat the same stuff.

Wrong about scholarships

By every metric your average..some years go above average

How about Indiv National Champions? Olympian’s? Etc

Last time..when you compare to seton hall and DePaul you’re awesome..but you’re a FLAGSHIP state university

Compared to those big boys not so much.

 

[Halldan1]

OK guys. Once again enough UConn info on an SHU board.

Thread locked.