Pandemic effect on teens

[HALL85]

https://www.axios.com/american-teen...mic-4a5a18a3-df3a-4df6-92b1-b5d6d357d04e.html

Social media exacerbated as well. What did we have learn to have disrupted their lives less?

 

[Merge]

What did we have learn to have disrupted their lives less?

Not to let a pandemic occur?

The study doesn't attempt to differentiate the impact on a pandemic that is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans and our response to it.

 

[HALL85]

Not to let a pandemic occur?

The study doesn't attempt to differentiate the impact on a pandemic that is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans and our response to it.

Sheesh….I’m just asking the question. Wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

 

[Merge]

Sheesh….I’m just asking the question. Wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

Just pointing out that the disruption was the pandemic.

Even if we did everything perfectly, they still would have seen millions hospitalized from the virus and hundred of thousands dying including many of their family members or teachers.

 

[shu09]

Not to let a pandemic occur?

The study doesn't attempt to differentiate the impact on a pandemic that is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans and our response to it.

Never before have pandemic plans called for complete shutdowns of society. This is a Chinese strategy that was adopted by the whole world. One of the biggest mistakes in human history.

 

[Merge]

Never before have pandemic plans called for complete shutdowns of society. This is a Chinese strategy that was adopted by the whole world. One of the biggest mistakes in human history.

That's just not true. I have pointed this out to you several times.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pdf/professionals/hhspandemicinfluenzaplan.pdf

This was in 2005.
"c) Closure of office buildings, shopping malls, schools, and public transportation Closure of office buildings, stores, schools, and public transportation systems may be feasible community containment measures during a pandemic. All of these have significant impact on the community and workforce, however, and careful consideration should be focused on their potential effectiveness, how they can most effectively be implemented, and how to maintain critical supplies and infrastructure while limiting community interaction. For example, when public transportation is cancelled, other modes of transportation must be provided for emergency medical services and medical evaluation."

"In extreme circumstances, public heath officials may consider the use of widespread or community-wide quarantine, which is the most stringent and restrictive containment measure"

 

[shu09]

1) this wasn't an extreme circumstance
2) it says careful consideration should be focused on their potential effectiveness - they are not effective and there was no careful consideration. It was a policy straight from the Chinese government that spread around the world faster than the virus. Ask yourself why.

 

[SHUSA]

i have pretty cautious friends when it comes to covid and a lot of them are starting to have some hindsight now

 

[HALL85]

Just pointing out that the disruption was the pandemic.

Even if we did everything perfectly, they still would have seen millions hospitalized from the virus and hundred of thousands dying including many of their family members or teachers.

Yeah, duh. But looking back what could we have done differently during the pandemic to reduce the risk of current and future mental health risks amongst teens. Maybe keeping kids out of school for an extended period, especially when they have very little risk of the virus was not a good idea.

 

[Merge]

1) this wasn't an extreme circumstance
2) it says careful consideration should be focused on their potential effectiveness - they are not effective and there was no careful consideration. It was a policy straight from the Chinese government that spread around the world faster than the virus. Ask yourself why.

The relatively short period of time in 2020 when there was an actual lockdown was an extreme circumstance.

Did we get everything right? No.

We’re lockdowns a part of our pandemic preparedness plans? Yes.

We developed that plan 15 years ago. That didn’t have anything to do with China.

 

[shu09]

The relatively short period of time in 2020 when there was an actual lockdown was an extreme circumstance.

Did we get everything right? No.

We’re lockdowns a part of our pandemic preparedness plans? Yes.

We developed that plan 15 years ago. That didn’t have anything to do with China.

You are simply incorrect.

 

[Merge]

Yeah, duh. But looking back what could we have done differently during the pandemic to reduce the risk of current and future mental health risks amongst teens. Maybe keeping kids out of school for an extended period, especially when they have very little risk of the virus was not a good idea.

But you don’t know what the results of the same survey would have been had we done things differently is my point.

You tend to place the blame on anything negative on our response rather than just being the result of the pandemic itself.

 

[Merge]

You are simply incorrect.

We can disagree on the premise of it was warranted. That’s fine, but Lockdowns were a part of our pandemic preparedness planning. That is a fact. Nothing to do with China at all.

The way to stop a virus from spreading is to cut off its opportunity to do so. Of course a lockdown would be the most extreme option to stop a pandemic.

 

[HALL85]

But you don’t know what the results of the same survey would have been had we done things differently is my point.

You tend to place the blame on anything negative on our response rather than just being the result of the pandemic itself.

What are you talking about? I just posted the study and asked if there was anything we could’ve done during the pandemic to reduce the level of anxiety and mental health issues amongst teens. I didn’t place the blame on anyone…. Suggested what could we learn and improve.

 

[shu09]

We can disagree on the premise of it was warranted. That’s fine, but Lockdowns were a part of our pandemic preparedness planning. That is a fact. Nothing to do with China at all.

The way to stop a virus from spreading is to cut off its opportunity to do so. Of course a lockdown would be the most extreme option to stop a pandemic.

The virus will spread no matter what we do. As it did.

The reaction in the western world was modeled off China. China is still doing it to this day!

 

[Merge]

The virus will spread no matter what we do. As it did.

The reaction in the western world was modeled off China. China is still doing it to this day!

Honestly not sure why you keep saying that. A virus can't spread without an opportunity to do so. Our reaction was not modeled off of China as China was severely more restrictive than anywhere else in the world.

 

[Merge]

What are you talking about? I just posted the study and asked if there was anything we could’ve done during the pandemic to reduce the level of anxiety and mental health issues amongst teens. I didn’t place the blame on anyone…. Suggested what could we learn and improve.

ok fair enough. Seemed like you were talking about the disruption from the decisions we made and not the natural disruption caused by a pandemic.

 

[shu09]

Honestly not sure why you keep saying that. A virus can't spread without an opportunity to do so. Our reaction was not modeled off of China as China was severely more restrictive than anywhere else in the world.

You are hopeless. I'm done engaging with you on this topic.

 

[HALL85]

ok fair enough. Seemed like you were talking about the disruption from the decisions we made and not the natural disruption caused by a pandemic.

After I had to explain that to you twice. It seems like you jump to conclusions about what I post....

 

[Merge]

You are hopeless. I'm done engaging with you on this topic.

That's fine. You replied to my post here and said something that was just factually incorrect.
You can go on believing what you want.

 

[Merge]

After I had to explain that to you twice. It seems like you jump to conclusions about what I post....

Admittedly " What did we have learn to have disrupted their lives less" was difficult to understand.

 

[HALL85]

Admittedly " What did we have learn to have disrupted their lives less" was difficult to understand.

Yes, and I clarified it and you doubled down.

 

[SHUSA]

hindsight is always 20/20

 

[Hallsome]

The relatively short period of time in 2020 when there was an actual lockdown was an extreme circumstance.

Did we get everything right? No.

We’re lockdowns a part of our pandemic preparedness plans? Yes.

We developed that plan 15 years ago. That didn’t have anything to do with China.

Remember when Murphy opened up the Jersey shore MD 2020 and then we had subsequent lock downs and masked kids until like 1 month ago? Get real auditor

 

[Merge]

Yes, and I clarified it and you doubled down.

I'm not really sure we could have done much differently which would have changed the results of that survey.

 

[HALL85]

I'm not really sure we could have done much differently which would have changed the results of that survey.

IMO, it's worth looking back and challenging some of the decisions. For instance, as I mentioned before, extended periods of remote learning has been acknowledged to be harmful to mental health and learning, especially as we have learned that children were at very low risk of severe illness or death from the virus. Maybe we should have had kids come back for in-person learning sooner than later.

Mayor Adams still has children wearing masks in school. And you have to be naïve to think that kids have not been manipulated by political or union actions.

 

[Merge]

IMO, it's worth looking back and challenging some of the decisions. For instance, as I mentioned before, extended periods of remote learning has been acknowledged to be harmful to mental health and learning, especially as we have learned that children were at very low risk of severe illness or death from the virus. Maybe we should have had kids come back for in-person learning sooner than later.

Mayor Adams still has children wearing masks in school. And you have to be naïve to think that kids have not been manipulated by political or union actions.

Right but at the same time, remote learning wasn't just to protect the kids. It was also about the teachers and the families of those kids. Most of the restrictions were just erring on the side of caution during a period of time when we didn't have a vaccine or even an effective treatment in place. After the population had a chance to be vaccinated, I agree that the restrictions on kids were unnecessary.

I don't think masks are needed at all at this point, but if no kids were wearing masks, I wouldn't expect the results of that survey to change at all.

Not sure what you're referring to regarding kids being manipulated.

 

[HALL85]

Right but at the same time, remote learning wasn't just to protect the kids. It was also about the teachers and the families of those kids. Most of the restrictions were just erring on the side of caution during a period of time when we didn't have a vaccine or even an effective treatment in place. After the population had a chance to be vaccinated, I agree that the restrictions on kids were unnecessary.

I don't think masks are needed at all at this point, but if no kids were wearing masks, I wouldn't expect the results of that survey to change at all.

Not sure what you're referring to regarding kids being manipulated.

There was a lot (and still is) of teacher union pushback even after the vaccines were available. Remote and then hybrid learning lagged as well. I think if we look back, in-person learning could have resumed a lot earlier than it did. You don't think kids in the Chicago school system have been manipulated?

 

[SHallguy2]

I think looking back maybe we should have used more common sense. So many restrictions just went against the science of common sense. Like people walking outside with masks on and nobody around. Sending older folks with covid back to their nursing communities to recover. One of my favorites was restricting people who had covid and recovered from going places because they were not vaccinated. Another favorite is watching the people making the rules ignoring the same science they were asking us to follow. I think what we learned was doing nothing would have been better than what we did. The entire industry I work inside has suffered, thousands of mom and pop businesses just in my industry alone literally destroyed. Trillions of dollars wasted and an entire world economy set back and still trying to recover. Mental health issues, drug and alcohol problems, school children with learning issues. We did more damage in my opinion then help. When we look back 10 years from now people will say "what were we thinking, who made these decisions and why?"

 

[shu09]

I still see people driving alone in cars and walking around outside with masks on. Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[shu09]

I think looking back maybe we should have used more common sense. So many restrictions just went against the science of common sense. Like people walking outside with masks on and nobody around. Sending older folks with covid back to their nursing communities to recover. One of my favorites was restricting people who had covid and recovered from going places because they were not vaccinated. Another favorite is watching the people making the rules ignoring the same science they were asking us to follow. I think what we learned was doing nothing would have been better than what we did. The entire industry I work inside has suffered, thousands of mom and pop businesses just in my industry alone literally destroyed. Trillions of dollars wasted and an entire world economy set back and still trying to recover. Mental health issues, drug and alcohol problems, school children with learning issues. We did more damage in my opinion then help. When we look back 10 years from now people will say "what were we thinking, who made these decisions and why?"

Well said. I agree completely. Unfortunately, common sense is out the door in the age of the internet, social media and limited attention spans.

 

[Merge]

Sending older folks with covid back to their nursing communities to recover. One of my favorites was restricting people who had covid and recovered from going places because they were not vaccinated.

They weren't being sent back home to recover. They recovered and were sent back to their home.

Your next sentence seems to contradict the first one. You're against people who recovered from Covid going back to their home but you're also against restrictions placed on those who have recovered?

I think what we learned was doing nothing would have been better than what we did.

I'd absolutely disagree with that.

The entire industry I work inside has suffered, thousands of mom and pop businesses just in my industry alone literally destroyed.

I get being upset about that, but unfortunately a contagious virus which is killing hundreds of thousands of Americans is going to have an impact on our economy. Had we done nothing at all, those businesses would have been fine?

Trillions of dollars wasted and an entire world economy set back and still trying to recover. Mental health issues, drug and alcohol problems, school children with learning issues.

All of that being the response of a global pandemic. That all still happens with zero restrictions.

 

[HALL85]

All of that being the response of a global pandemic. That all still happens with zero restrictions.

Totally disagree....there would still be mental health issues, but not to the extent that we have seen by isolating people and causing unnecessary hardships that could have been avoided.

 

[Merge]

Totally disagree....there would still be mental health issues, but not to the extent that we have seen by isolating people and causing unnecessary hardships that could have been avoided.

Not sure how you can quantify that.

The one area I may agree with you would be nursing homes since there were visitation restrictions for an extended period of time. Outside of that, people adapted to the environment and found their bubbles. They weren't being forced to stay home. Over a million dead in the US from the virus. We're not coming out of that without significant mental health issues for those that may be prone to the depression and anxiety that would come along with that.

 

[HALL85]

Not sure how you can quantify that.

The one area I may agree with you would be nursing homes since there were visitation restrictions for an extended period of time. Outside of that, people adapted to the environment and found their bubbles. They weren't being forced to stay home. Over a million dead in the US from the virus. We're not coming out of that without significant mental health issues for those that may be prone to the depression and anxiety that would come along with that.

I can only go by what dozens of mental health professionals have shared which is pretty much in lock step. They can point to the causes as they have experience. I think you are making a lot of incorrect assumptions, especially about people finding their bubbles. Kids could not go to school, they couldn't interact, they were discouraged or prevented from getting together, etc. Instead, they spent a considerable more amount of time in their rooms and on social media in many cases.

 

[Merge]

I can only go by what dozens of mental health professionals have shared which is pretty much in lock step. They can point to the causes as they have experience. I think you are making a lot of incorrect assumptions, especially about people finding their bubbles. Kids could not go to school, they couldn't interact, they were discouraged or prevented from getting together, etc. Instead, they spent a considerable more amount of time in their rooms and on social media in many cases.

I think you're really talking about a relatively short period of time in 2020 though when no one had any idea what this was. I'm sure it sucked for a period of time and then they would have adapted to their environment.

Is there evidence that kids in states with no restrictions have fared better than in states with restrictions?

 

[HALL85]

I think you're really talking about a relatively short period of time in 2020 though when no one had any idea what this was. I'm sure it sucked for a period of time and then they would have adapted to their environment.

Is there evidence that kids in states with no restrictions have fared better than in states with restrictions?

No I'm not...schools for instance went remote at the start of the pandemic (spring 2020 semester) and then continued in fall 2020 and then spring 2021 - maybe some hybrid in some areas. Then mostly hybrid combinations or in-person in fall 2021. Yesterday, I met with a hospital President and we discussed staffing challenges (some huge long term problems that will get worse) and mental health, covering a myriad of increases based on the lifestyle changes that were driven by poor decisions as we look back.

 

[SHallguy2]

We all see it differently, Merge you cannot find anything we should have done differently? You don't think the giant empty ships in NYC could have been used more effectively? I read the following, "Cuomo’s decisions — first, to require nursing homes to accept Covid-19-positive patients when New York’s hospitals were overflowing, and then, to hide data about deaths of nursing home residents — has engulfed Albany in recent weeks. Court orders, leaks, and investigations revealed that Cuomo dramatically and intentionally understated the pandemic’s toll on nursing home residents in New York". I guess your take depends on what you are reading, you are obviously reading different news. Maybe your news is correct where nothing bad happens. The president is trying to help the oil companies and is doing all he can to help. Andrew Cuomo was a nice guy who treated women and seniors with respect. I'm still questioning authority.

 

[SHUSA]

went to the dentist today and got hit with a list of cavities. ive always thought dentists are a little scammy, who knows how many are actually there. but had a chat about the affect of covid. its been an issue with people not coming in (worse than primary care) but also the type of damage being done. particularly in my case: grinding teeth. stress way up = tooth damage in full swing. now, that might have happened regardless of lockdowns.

the dentist had to shut down for a while so my scam radar thinks theyre trying to recoup money by fixing things that arent really an issue (ive always thought this) . but i do think ive crushed my back molars in my sleep

 

[Merge]

We all see it differently, Merge you cannot find anything we should have done differently? You don't think the giant empty ships in NYC could have been used more effectively? I read the following, "Cuomo’s decisions — first, to require nursing homes to accept Covid-19-positive patients when New York’s hospitals were overflowing, and then, to hide data about deaths of nursing home residents — has engulfed Albany in recent weeks. Court orders, leaks, and investigations revealed that Cuomo dramatically and intentionally understated the pandemic’s toll on nursing home residents in New York". I guess your take depends on what you are reading, you are obviously reading different news. Maybe your news is correct where nothing bad happens. The president is trying to help the oil companies and is doing all he can to help. Andrew Cuomo was a nice guy who treated women and seniors with respect. I'm still questioning authority.

Not what I'm saying at all.

In my opinion, some view the negative consequences from the last two years being a result of the decisions we made and don't really consider what the consequences which would have occurred just from the worst pandemic any of us have ever experienced.

Not saying we got it all right. We didn't.

I just think we were more resilient than some guessed we would be and I don't buy that things were worse than they would have been without any restrictions (in most cases)