@AdamZagoria: Penn State beat Seton Hall last night by 3 in a scrimmage. Heard Shep Garner played well for PSU and Isaiah Whitehead for SHU.
Penn State scrimmage
- Thread starter Hallisthebest
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Come on everyone knows willard's strengths...as soon as I think of one I'll post it.
Having Rick Pitino in his back pocket and getting the university to give him millions of dollars. Pure genius. He will be laughing with his bank account when he leaves the basketball program in shambles.
Penn state eh? I don't think anyone should be comfortable with a win over Long Beach to get to UVA. Gonna be a long, terrible season. Fire this clown already! When the F is he going to consistently have his teams ready to play? Never! Get him out of here.
And I'll say it again...if seeing this bullshit pisses u off too, then please stop donating to pirate blue and stop attending games until he's gone. It's the easiest way to make your opinion known.
And I'll say it again...if seeing this bullshit pisses u off too, then please stop donating to pirate blue and stop attending games until he's gone. It's the easiest way to make your opinion known.
Cmon, it's a scrimmage. Let's see what happens against Dartmouth Friday night. Can't believe a new season is upon us already.
same posters, same tired existence...
care about scrimmage results
care about scrimmage results
Awful fan base...guys jumping off the ledge over a closed door scrimmage???? Really???? I get the concerns but to beat a dead horse over and over makes me question why I ever came back to read this board...
We have two scrimmages and two poor results from those scrimmages. We have a 5 year track record from Willard for poor performance. And there are posters who criticize other posters for expressing their dissatisfaction. I think you need to place this into context. Once you do this, can any person on this board feel anything positive going into this season?
The only positive that may come out of these scrimmages is that 1) playing three guards would not be a good idea and 2) play your five best players. Singh and Desi must play together and not split time. Bigger Queation is whether Willard actually learned these lessons.
The only positive that may come out of these scrimmages is that 1) playing three guards would not be a good idea and 2) play your five best players. Singh and Desi must play together and not split time. Bigger Queation is whether Willard actually learned these lessons.
This.
And no, he doesn't learn anything because learning creates change and he doesn't want to change. Last year Desi was banned from playing the 3. This year it sounds like he's banned from playing the 4.
I'd go Whitehead, Carrington, Singh, Desi, Delgado
I criticize posters who beat the same dead horse over and over and over and over and over and over and over....because how can you criticize something realistically you did not see ???? Unless you are magic ya didn't see it. I've watched these same poor performances over the last 5 years I get believe me but this board has become nauseating with the same people saying the same thing no matter what happens. ..hell you all are acting like you were at this closed door scrimmage. Give me a break
Both sides of this have some validity. We are all concerned. But the constant, predictable posts after every mention of the letters w I l l a r d are so old. Continue if you must. I pay them no mind and know when they are coming.
I am not a journalist and the world does not need to know my deepesr truths. Who gives a shit how I really feel. But, I AM a SHU fan, and in that capacity I can sometimes just keep my mouth shut out of respect for our players.
I am not a journalist and the world does not need to know my deepesr truths. Who gives a shit how I really feel. But, I AM a SHU fan, and in that capacity I can sometimes just keep my mouth shut out of respect for our players.
How can you tell that Singh and Desi should play together when Singh didn't play in either scrimmage??????
I don't need to see a game I can look at the stats and make a fair evaluation of how we played . If we get beat off the boards by 50-35 I know that's a factor. I know if we shoot under 50% from the free throw line that hurts us. I know if our opponent shoots over 50% from the three and makes double digit three' s we're playing poor perimeter defense and I know if our turnover ratio to assists is against us that's not good. I also know if our overall shooting percentage is woeful winning becomes difficult. I know that seeing the game in person is the best way to evaluate a team and players performance. It's the same as not seeing the Giants play a game to know that if Eli throws three picks and only I TD and gets sacked 5 times and is under 50% completion rate and the Giants get no sacks the reasons they lost is obvious just by looking at the stats.
I also recognize that people get tired of reading the same criticisms over and over again and they have a valid point and I can accept that. But in the end you know what I get most tired of and that is that this team continues to play fundamentally unsound basketball and nothing changes from year to year .
Well we are on the clock with 5 months left. It's going to go fast. I'd say we shouldn't be too concerned
with either the exhibition game against Baruch nor the scrimmage against Penn St. The real season starts
next Friday. That's when we start keeping score. I'd imagine you'll see incremental improvement from the first
game to the 2nd. At that point they'll have to pick up their play if they want to do well in Charleston.
My point is that this is a season where some fans and posters are not going to let anything go. It started last Spring and will continue until D-Day in April. The fans are more than impatient. I'm not sure that this season will
be that turnaround that most of us are hoping for. There are the continuous System problems and to me a lack
of talent in the front court from a size standpoint. I believe we are not having enough confidence in a very talented backcourt. I think IW and Carrington are going to win us some games with limited help on some nights. Plus Delgado is a force on the boards, but he'll have to show improvement in other facets of his game.
Let's take the games one at time and give the players our support. Maybe the chemistry will be better and
IW will lead us to a special season. Always better to have a positive outlook than a negative one in life.
with either the exhibition game against Baruch nor the scrimmage against Penn St. The real season starts
next Friday. That's when we start keeping score. I'd imagine you'll see incremental improvement from the first
game to the 2nd. At that point they'll have to pick up their play if they want to do well in Charleston.
My point is that this is a season where some fans and posters are not going to let anything go. It started last Spring and will continue until D-Day in April. The fans are more than impatient. I'm not sure that this season will
be that turnaround that most of us are hoping for. There are the continuous System problems and to me a lack
of talent in the front court from a size standpoint. I believe we are not having enough confidence in a very talented backcourt. I think IW and Carrington are going to win us some games with limited help on some nights. Plus Delgado is a force on the boards, but he'll have to show improvement in other facets of his game.
Let's take the games one at time and give the players our support. Maybe the chemistry will be better and
IW will lead us to a special season. Always better to have a positive outlook than a negative one in life.
NYCP, it is not a five month clock, perhaps only in the technical sense. We WILL know in two months or so, with intimations any day soon now. I am looking to withhold my first judgments until after the preseason tournament. I expect to have my settled view by the second week of January. Honestly, five years plus some weeks will be ENOUGH. More than enough.
Why continue to express our wide range of thoughts? Well, that is how real diversity works. For the ten people screaming against the negativity, there are ninety screaming back. Everyone of them are fans. Sorry, I have learned the painful way, people who are tired of the horrible performance are just as much fans as the ones saying give it a rest. For my part, the EVIDENCE caused me to switch
I believe this coach is a terrible failure who is destroying our brand. However, I am looking forward to rooting our players against the odds. They deserve our compassion and our support.
Why continue to express our wide range of thoughts? Well, that is how real diversity works. For the ten people screaming against the negativity, there are ninety screaming back. Everyone of them are fans. Sorry, I have learned the painful way, people who are tired of the horrible performance are just as much fans as the ones saying give it a rest. For my part, the EVIDENCE caused me to switch
I believe this coach is a terrible failure who is destroying our brand. However, I am looking forward to rooting our players against the odds. They deserve our compassion and our support.
The fact that he didn't play in either scrimmage with two horrendous results confirms my belief that the 5 best players should play together. Clearly, the lineups that were placed on the floor did not perform.
The screamers will continue to scream but that doesn't mean their take is not valid. The posters saying to give it a rest are not KW supporters. But the negativity even if directed at the coach does nothing to help the players.
I hope I'm wrong but its going to a struggle. Its simple: we have a grand total of two upper class men who were not even on the roster last season, one of whom has had a very tough time with serious injuries. The back court is talented but thin. The front court is thin but with one stud. That combination is not going to cut it in the BE.
We're a year away once again. (Aren't we always.) Not saying that KW should get that year.
I hope I'm wrong but its going to a struggle. Its simple: we have a grand total of two upper class men who were not even on the roster last season, one of whom has had a very tough time with serious injuries. The back court is talented but thin. The front court is thin but with one stud. That combination is not going to cut it in the BE.
We're a year away once again. (Aren't we always.) Not saying that KW should get that year.
I fundamentally agree with your roster assessment. This is exactly why I have very low expectations for the season. What I hope to see is a wiser coach teaching his young team to grow and play beyond their level. If that happens, it will require reconsideration.
You have appropriate expectations. The same people expect great things every year, and then are bitterly disappointed. Self-delusion is necessary, though, when you see where this program has gone in 20 years. Calling a 3-point loss to PSU in a scrimmage (which runs much differently than an actual game) "disastrous" is questionable on several fronts.
I had the opportunity to talk with one of the staff at a BBQ this summer. I asked him what was going to be different this year. The response: "KW is going to coach his ASS off -- he knows this is a make or break year." My first thought was, "what has he been doing for five years -- not coaching his ass off?" Perplexing. Truly a guy who knows he's hit his ceiling; hopefully, he's well-invested, and can live for a few years off the buyout money. It seems that he's much more "in-your-face," this year, according to reports. I don't know if that translates into a "wiser coach teaching his young team to grow and play beyond their level." I could hardly type that.
I would personally feel better about KW " coaching his ass off" if he had an highly experienced bench coach sitting next to him that could serve as a resource , who could focus on what he sees going on during a game and offer advice on what adjustments could be made. Legendary coaches like Bobby Knight, Jim Calhoun , Dean Smith and others always has that type of person on staff to go to .
That certainly couldn't hurt. It surprised me when we "shook up" the staff a couple of years back, and hired Freddie Hill, that we didn't bring in Ralph Willard, instead.
It seems to me that Louis Orr was one assistant coach short, too. One that had charisma, and could recruit. Orr was a fantastic closer, and a very good developer of talent and bench coach. Still hard to believe that he was run out of town because he wasn't a good glad-hander. Jimmy Boheim is the surliest SOB north of Scranton, and he is beloved. Instead of firing Orr, his bench should have been shaken up, in much the same way. Maybe he refused those overtures, I'm not sure.
I view scrimmages and the 2 cupcake games like the relative difference between what (some) hot girls and fat girls will & won't do to please their men. One doesn't need to try very hard; the other (SHU) has to do everything & more. And they get the chances to practice because guys are generally easy and many will go home with a walrus if it's late enough.
I really like your first thought. I work in a very difficult industry undergoing continual severe transformation and I've worked for both kinds of bosses in the last few years - the one I'm with now gets it - you play your A-game with A-people every moment of the day (and try to take A-plus downtime when it comes) - his boss last year was a "KW-special" - he was a know-it-all who never supported us, never understood our transformation plan and was clearly playing out the string in a mistaken role outside of his grasp and track record. I've got hard-earned stripes and make no bones about calling out the KW-special when I see it.
Your last line also made me laugh out loud. I wrote that last sentence very particularly. As far as the evidence show, it's a hill too far for KW to reach, but out of love and respect for Mother Seton and her pilgrim children, I am allowing that something like it could possibly happen. Um LOL of course, but who knows!?!
Taking Willard out of the conversation, outside of depth, I think the bigger issue is the make-up of the starters/rotation and what is being asked (changes):
1) IW is being asked to be a proto-type PG, and although he has great court vision, he hasn't shown that he has the handle or mindset to do that yet. You can teach all you want, but if someone doesn't have the DNA (and has pro aspirations next year), that poses a potential issue.
2) Desi has never played the three and you're asking him to learn that position now (even though he might have been better suited to do that last year).
3) Angel seems like he's trying to figure out if he's a 4 or 5 and the early returns are that he's not the player he was last year, which is troubling since he's our second most important player (maybe first).
4) The Nzei/Sanogo combination is going to be expected to play 40 minutes with very little BE experience.
We have three critical starters who are in a "position transition" which is why these exhibitions are important to see if they are capable of playing the roles being asked and doing it much better than how they played last year since the team is resting primarily on their abilities.
1) IW is being asked to be a proto-type PG, and although he has great court vision, he hasn't shown that he has the handle or mindset to do that yet. You can teach all you want, but if someone doesn't have the DNA (and has pro aspirations next year), that poses a potential issue.
2) Desi has never played the three and you're asking him to learn that position now (even though he might have been better suited to do that last year).
3) Angel seems like he's trying to figure out if he's a 4 or 5 and the early returns are that he's not the player he was last year, which is troubling since he's our second most important player (maybe first).
4) The Nzei/Sanogo combination is going to be expected to play 40 minutes with very little BE experience.
We have three critical starters who are in a "position transition" which is why these exhibitions are important to see if they are capable of playing the roles being asked and doing it much better than how they played last year since the team is resting primarily on their abilities.
I do not think the staff expects IW to become a prototypical point. I think that is posters saying this, not KW. He and KC are lead guards. Lead guards have lead teams to good seasons. IMO, Isaiah is going to have a huge season as a scorer. Whether he and Khadeen can run the team well is a concern for me, as is the set offense as a whole. I think the hope is that both can run the point and both can score, like the UConn tandem of a few years ago. The set offense to me is a larger concern than any of our positions.
I think Desi played like a three last year except he didn't shoot from deep often or well. I see him far more clearly as a 3 than a 4. And Veer IS a 3, who has nice size and can shoot it.
If Angel shows the ability to be good as a 4, I really don't see a problem with how he plays on offense as long as he still cleans the glass. If he constantly shoots and misses the ten footer and never goes inside but floats outside and plays the 4 at a lower level than he played the 5, that is an issue.
Both Ish and Mike are question marks at the four. Except for Angel, the whole team is in flux and Angel may be reluctant to play that role again. On the other hand, we were not good last year, so why are a lot of changes from that script bad? lol
IMO, helping IW and AD transition to the next level is something the staff has to do. You get high level talents, part of the job is to help them maximize their attractiveness to the NBA or other professional possibilities.
I don't think we are a good team nor should we be at this point. Lots of inexperience and young players at new positions and a still a very young unproven coach. Like it or not that is where we are. With that said we have some real talent on this team so that gives me hope.
Winning or losing a scrimmage means NOTHING. N-O-T-H-I-N-G!!!
All I care about is that the team and coaches learned a few things from the scrimmage to get better. I fully expect to see a "work in progress." I just want to see the "progress" part this year such that we are playing our best ball and improving once February and March comes along.
Winning or losing a scrimmage means NOTHING. N-O-T-H-I-N-G!!!
All I care about is that the team and coaches learned a few things from the scrimmage to get better. I fully expect to see a "work in progress." I just want to see the "progress" part this year such that we are playing our best ball and improving once February and March comes along.
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