Ranking the coaches to date

[Halldan1]

1. Cooley 14-3 6-0
Can't see anyone else here

2. Miller 13-3 5-0
But if I did.......

3. Smart 13-4 5-1
.....or him

4. Hurley 15-2 4-2
Nice W at home vs Creighton

5. Holloway 10-8 3-4
Trending upward

6. McDermott 9-7 3-2
Major disappointment to date

7. Anderson 12-6 2-5
Is he doing a very good job? Not really but look what's below him

9. Stubblefield 8-9 2-4
Playing better earns a bump here

9. Neptune 8-9 2-4
Please Jay, come back

10. Matta 10-8 2-5
Two blowouts on the east coast

11. Ewing 5-13 0-7
Never thought I would have woeful and Ewing on the same line

 

[shu09]

1. Smart
2. Miller
3. Cooley
4. Hurley
5. McDermott
6. Holloway
7. Anderson
8. Neptune
9. Stubblefield
10. Matta
11. Ewing

 

[Seton75]

Sha going up. That is all I care about.

 

[silkcitypirate]

Sha going up. That is all I care about.

Let him get some NIL money and players then WATCH OUT !!!!

 

[SPK145]

1 - Smart
2 - Cooley
3 - Hurley
4 - Miller
5 - McDermott
6 - Holloway
7 - Matta
8 - Neptune
9 - Anderson
10 - Stubblefield
11 - Ewing

 

[Halldan1]

I understand this is very subjective and our choices are certainly debatable. but I want to ask those that have McDermott above Holloway how did you come to your conclusion?

My own thinking was not to elevate Sha, but to drop McDermott for his underperforming results to date.

A top ten nationally ranked preseason team whose record is now 9-7 3-2. That includes 7 losses in his last 10 games. With the wins coming against

# 85 Butler
# 136 DePaul
# 56 Seton Hall.

All at home.

Mon Nov 7		188	St. Thomas	W, 72-60			Home	1-0
Thu Nov 10		330	North Dakota	W, 96-61			Home	2-0
Mon Nov 14		335	Holy Cross	W, 94-65			Home	3-0
Thu Nov 17		171	UC Riverside	W, 80-51			Home	4-0
Mon Nov 21		62	Texas Tech	W, 76-65			Neutral	5-0
Tue Nov 22		10	Arkansas	W, 90-87			Neutral	6-0
Wed Nov 23		11	Arizona	L, 81-79			Neutral	6-1
Thu Dec 1		8	Texas	L, 72-67			Away	6-2
Sun Dec 4		92	Nebraska	L, 63-53			Home	6-3
Sat Dec 10		75	BYU	L, 83-80			Neutral	6-4
Mon Dec 12		63	Arizona St.	L, 73-71			Neutral	6-5
Fri Dec 16		15	Marquette	L, 69-58			Away	6-6	0-1
Thu Dec 22		85	Butler	W, 78-56			Home	7-6	1-1
Sun Dec 25		136	DePaul	W, 80-65			Home	8-6	2-1
Tue Jan 3		56	Seton Hall	W, 83-61			Home	9-6	3-1
Sat Jan 7		3	Connecticut	L, 69-60			Away	9-7	3-2

 

[shu09]

I understand this is very subjective and our choices are certainly debatable. but I want to ask those that have McDermott above Holloway how did you come to your conclusion?

My own thinking was not to elevate Sha, but to drop McDermott for his underperforming results to date.

A top ten nationally ranked preseason team whose record is now 9-7 3-2. That includes 7 losses in his last 10 games. With the wins coming against

# 85 Butler
# 136 DePaul
# 56 Seton Hall.

All at home.

Mon Nov 7		188	St. Thomas	W, 72-60			Home	1-0
Thu Nov 10		330	North Dakota	W, 96-61			Home	2-0
Mon Nov 14		335	Holy Cross	W, 94-65			Home	3-0
Thu Nov 17		171	UC Riverside	W, 80-51			Home	4-0
Mon Nov 21		62	Texas Tech	W, 76-65			Neutral	5-0
Tue Nov 22		10	Arkansas	W, 90-87			Neutral	6-0
Wed Nov 23		11	Arizona	L, 81-79			Neutral	6-1
Thu Dec 1		8	Texas	L, 72-67			Away	6-2
Sun Dec 4		92	Nebraska	L, 63-53			Home	6-3
Sat Dec 10		75	BYU	L, 83-80			Neutral	6-4
Mon Dec 12		63	Arizona St.	L, 73-71			Neutral	6-5
Fri Dec 16		15	Marquette	L, 69-58			Away	6-6	0-1
Thu Dec 22		85	Butler	W, 78-56			Home	7-6	1-1
Sun Dec 25		136	DePaul	W, 80-65			Home	8-6	2-1
Tue Jan 3		56	Seton Hall	W, 83-61			Home	9-6	3-1
Sat Jan 7		3	Connecticut	L, 69-60			Away	9-7	3-2

Better team, better record, smoked Holloway head to head. Great win over Arkansas in Maui. Team is improving since the Kalkbrenner-induced losing streak. Not going to penalize him for losing a key player to injury. I expect them to get back in the rankings soon. They should already be there, I don't believe there are 25 teams better than them.

Not really that close IMO. Holloway is only 6th on my list because of how poorly the other coaches below him have done.

 

[walshtrips]

10. Anderson

So far Anderson has been ranked too high by everyone, SJU has good talent and should be performing much better. Saint John's will have a new coach come May.

 

[TheHall87]

I understand this is very subjective and our choices are certainly debatable. but I want to ask those that have McDermott above Holloway how did you come to your conclusion?

My own thinking was not to elevate Sha, but to drop McDermott for his underperforming results to date.

A top ten nationally ranked preseason team whose record is now 9-7 3-2. That includes 7 losses in his last 10 games. With the wins coming against

# 85 Butler
# 136 DePaul
# 56 Seton Hall.

All at home.

Mon Nov 7		188	St. Thomas	W, 72-60			Home	1-0
Thu Nov 10		330	North Dakota	W, 96-61			Home	2-0
Mon Nov 14		335	Holy Cross	W, 94-65			Home	3-0
Thu Nov 17		171	UC Riverside	W, 80-51			Home	4-0
Mon Nov 21		62	Texas Tech	W, 76-65			Neutral	5-0
Tue Nov 22		10	Arkansas	W, 90-87			Neutral	6-0
Wed Nov 23		11	Arizona	L, 81-79			Neutral	6-1
Thu Dec 1		8	Texas	L, 72-67			Away	6-2
Sun Dec 4		92	Nebraska	L, 63-53			Home	6-3
Sat Dec 10		75	BYU	L, 83-80			Neutral	6-4
Mon Dec 12		63	Arizona St.	L, 73-71			Neutral	6-5
Fri Dec 16		15	Marquette	L, 69-58			Away	6-6	0-1
Thu Dec 22		85	Butler	W, 78-56			Home	7-6	1-1
Sun Dec 25		136	DePaul	W, 80-65			Home	8-6	2-1
Tue Jan 3		56	Seton Hall	W, 83-61			Home	9-6	3-1
Sat Jan 7		3	Connecticut	L, 69-60			Away	9-7	3-2

Four losses to top 15 teams, all non-home games. Three losses, all neutral/away games without the defending BE Defensive Player of the Year. Since Thanksgiving week, 11 of 12 games have come against KenPom top 100 teams.

We have one win against a NET top 50 -- RU at No. 21. Memphis is No. 57. Our next best win is Butler, at home, followed by SJU who moved back into the top 100 after beating -- wait for it -- Butler at home.

I agree with shu09, there's no way Sha should be above McDermott, even if the latter's team has underperformed some.

 

[donnie_baseball]

10. Anderson

So far Anderson has been ranked too high by everyone, SJU has good talent and should be performing much better. Saint John's will have a new coach come May.

I would be shocked if that is the case, barring a total collapse.

 

[lloyde dobler]

Also seems like Anderson has never clicked with the SJU base

 

[walshtrips]

I would be shocked if that is the case, barring a total collapse.

Do you think he'll survive 4 seasons and no NCAA invites at SJU? This is supposed to be the year.

 

[Halldan1]

Four losses to top 15 teams, all non-home games. Three losses, all neutral/away games without the defending BE Defensive Player of the Year. Since Thanksgiving week, 11 of 12 games have come against KenPom top 100 teams.

We have one win against a NET top 50 -- RU at No. 21. Memphis is No. 57. Our next best win is Butler, at home, followed by SJU who moved back into the top 100 after beating -- wait for it -- Butler at home.

I agree with shu09, there's no way Sha should be above McDermott, even if the latter's team has underperformed some.

I understand and in no way am I comparing the two teams. But SHU right now is about where most expected them to be, while Creighton, a top 10 national ranking and the preseason #1 team in the conference as voted by most everyone, including the Big East coaches themselves, is struggling at 9-7 3-2 (not counting their loss last night which is their 8 in the last 11 games.

That resume is absolutely brutal and IMO not worthy on being one of the five best coaches in the league.

I think were confusing power rankings (5th best team in the league right now) with the job that McDermott has done.

 

[hallstorm]

It’s also interesting how perceptions of what Creighton should be/will be vs what they’ve done is being considered on McDermott’s behalf.

And the head-to-head is silly. No one on here would say Sha has been better than Pike this year and Sha beat him in his own house.

 

[Piratz]

Also seems like Anderson has never clicked with the SJU base

There’s no natural connection. I don’t mean simply the school as that’s not a prerequisite, I mean it’s larger than that; the region, lineage, etc.

 

[shu09]

I understand and in no way am I comparing the two teams. But SHU right now is about where most expected them to be, while Creighton, a top 10 national ranking and the preseason #1 team in the conference as voted by most everyone, including the Big East coaches themselves, is struggling at 9-7 3-2 (not counting their loss last night which is their 8 in the last 11 games.

That resume is absolutely brutal and IMO not worthy on being one of the five best coaches in the league.

I think were confusing power rankings (5th best team in the league right now) with the job that McDermott has done.

No, I don't think we're confusing anything. McDermott has done a nice job keeping them afloat through all of their troubles. They are playing better of late. Played very well even in losses to UConn and Xavier. They're about to go on a tear and get back to where most expected them to be.

 

[MBF72]

I understand this is very subjective and our choices are certainly debatable. but I want to ask those that have McDermott above Holloway how did you come to your conclusion?

My own thinking was not to elevate Sha, but to drop McDermott for his underperforming results to date.

A top ten nationally ranked preseason team whose record is now 9-7 3-2. That includes 7 losses in his last 10 games. With the wins coming against

# 85 Butler
# 136 DePaul
# 56 Seton Hall.

All at home.

Mon Nov 7		188	St. Thomas	W, 72-60			Home	1-0
Thu Nov 10		330	North Dakota	W, 96-61			Home	2-0
Mon Nov 14		335	Holy Cross	W, 94-65			Home	3-0
Thu Nov 17		171	UC Riverside	W, 80-51			Home	4-0
Mon Nov 21		62	Texas Tech	W, 76-65			Neutral	5-0
Tue Nov 22		10	Arkansas	W, 90-87			Neutral	6-0
Wed Nov 23		11	Arizona	L, 81-79			Neutral	6-1
Thu Dec 1		8	Texas	L, 72-67			Away	6-2
Sun Dec 4		92	Nebraska	L, 63-53			Home	6-3
Sat Dec 10		75	BYU	L, 83-80			Neutral	6-4
Mon Dec 12		63	Arizona St.	L, 73-71			Neutral	6-5
Fri Dec 16		15	Marquette	L, 69-58			Away	6-6	0-1
Thu Dec 22		85	Butler	W, 78-56			Home	7-6	1-1
Sun Dec 25		136	DePaul	W, 80-65			Home	8-6	2-1
Tue Jan 3		56	Seton Hall	W, 83-61			Home	9-6	3-1
Sat Jan 7		3	Connecticut	L, 69-60			Away	9-7	3-2

Jan. 3: Creighton 83... Seton Hall 61

 

[Halldan1]

Jan. 3: Creighton 83... Seton Hall 61

3-8 last 11 games. Preseason top 10 team.

Wed Nov 23		11	Arizona	L, 81-79			Neutral	6-1
Thu Dec 1		8	Texas	L, 72-67			Away	6-2
Sun Dec 4		92	Nebraska	L, 63-53			Home	6-3
Sat Dec 10		75	BYU	L, 83-80			Neutral	6-4
Mon Dec 12		62	Arizona St.	L, 73-71			Neutral	6-5
Fri Dec 16		14	Marquette	L, 69-58			Away	6-6	0-1
Thu Dec 22		87	Butler	W, 78-56			Home	7-6	1-1
Sun Dec 25		136	DePaul	W, 80-65			Home	8-6	2-1
Tue Jan 3		54	Seton Hall	W, 83-61			Home	9-6	3-1
Sat Jan 7		3	Connecticut	L, 69-60			Away	9-7	3-2
Wed Jan 11		20	Xavier	L, 90-87	6		Away	9-8	3-3

 

[shu09]

They had a huge injury. You just can't ignore that. They will be back in the rankings once they win their next 7-8 in a row. I never thought they were a top 10 team (it's the same group as last year + Scheierman), but they're definitely a top-25 caliber team.

The only truly perplexing loss was Nebraska at home. But that was when Kalkbrenner began feeling the effects of his illness and it's a rivalry game, so anything can happen.

 

[JTSHU]

Prob the scariest .500 team

 

[hallstorm]

Jan. 3: Creighton 83... Seton Hall 61

Seton Hall 45 Rutgers 43. At Rutgers.

Ergo, Sha > Pike

 

[hallstorm]

They had a huge injury. You just can't discount that. They will be back in the rankings once they win their next 7-8 in a row.

I don’t necessarily disagree with McDermott being better than Sha so far this year—he’s had a pretty rough schedule. And I think he is a little better based on the full body of work so far.

But saying McDermott is better because he WILL win games upcoming doesn’t really do the as-of-now poll justice.

This is like the Bill Belfer argument that the midterms should be restructured due to just the Butler game.

 

[shu09]

I don’t necessarily disagree with McDermott being better than Sha so far this year—he’s had a pretty rough schedule. And I think he is a little better based on the full body of work so far.

But saying McDermott is better because he WILL win games upcoming doesn’t really do the as-of-now poll justice.

This is like the Bill Belfer argument that the midterms should be restructured due to just the Butler game.

I'm ranking him #5 based on performance to date. My opinion that they go on a big winning streak has nothing to do with the current ranking.

 

[hallstorm]

I'm ranking him #5 based on performance to date. My opinion that they go on a big winning streak has nothing to do with the current ranking.

And yet you keep using - repeatedly - the argument they will win 7 of 8.

Why say it then?

 

[shu09]

Because I'm entitled to my opinion on a basketball message board.

 

[Halldan1]

They had a huge injury. You just can't ignore that. They will be back in the rankings once they win their next 7-8 in a row. I never thought they were a top 10 team (it's the same group as last year + Scheierman), but they're definitely a top-25 caliber team.

The only truly perplexing loss was Nebraska at home. But that was when Kalkbrenner began feeling the effects of his illness and it's a rivalry game, so anything can happen.

All teams have injuries. You play through them without making excuses.

Nova lost Moore and that hurt them badly. Same with losing Whitmore.

Sha has a physically challenged team and has lost his most physical player all year in Yetna. He also had so few players healthy that just before the season began he had to bring in 3 walkons to have 5 on 5 scrimmages.

BTW, Kalkbrenner missed 3 games. We're not taking about an extended period.

 

[Halldan1]

The funny thing is that I think McDermott is the best coach in the league, but I cannot in any way say he has done even an average job this year.

 

[shu09]

All teams have injuries. You play through them without making excuses.

Nova lost Moore and that hurt them badly. Same with losing Whitmore.

Sha has a physically challenged team and has lost his most physical player all year in Yetna. He also had so few players healthy that just before the season began he had to bring in 3 walkons to have 5 on 5 scrimmages.

BTW, Kalkbrenner missed 3 games. We're not taking about an extended period.

We just disagree. Creighton is a way better team than Villanova - they actually play defense and Kalkbrenner is a huge part of that - and McDermott has done a solid job keeping them together through adversity. Just watch them play.

I know you're trying to boost up Holloway, and that's fine, you run a SH-centric site. We all love him, but let's face it. It's been a rocky start.

 

[Halldan1]

Actually I am not. I think that Holloway at best has done an average job to date and I noted that above. I just believe that very few coaches, short of the top 4 I listed have done a better than average job so far.

Meaning the rankings are IMO very difficult 5 through 10, with only Ewing being a no-brainer.

Down the road I do expect McDermott will join the top 5. But his team must remain injury free as he has very little depth on his roster.

It's going to be a very interesting next two months in the conference. Which BTW has now risen to # 3 in the Kenpom rankings.

 

[shu09]

Agree. After the top four there is nobody worthy of COY consideration right now. But I think McDermott has done the "best" job of those not in consideration for the award. It is a low bar in this conference this year, after the top four guys.

 

[walshtrips]

Seton Hall 45 Rutgers 43. At Rutgers.

Ergo, Sha > Pike

Pike has guys that have been playing together for years, and playing for him, there were high expectations for RU this season. Ranking the coaches based on expectation, Pike is performing where he should be.

Sha has 3 starters who never played together, and 5 starters who never played for him. Expectations for Seton Hall were so-so. Sha is performing where he should be.

That said, if Sha manages to make the NCAA tourney considering the above circumstances, injury to his true center, and lack of practice coming into the season, his season would be considered more of a success than Pike's.

Ranking coaches performances is tough when the circumstances as vastly different. I maintain that Anderson is doing the worst job based on preseason expectations.

 

[Seton75]

Agree. After the top four there is nobody worthy of COY consideration right now. But I think McDermott has done the "best" job of those not in consideration for the award. It is a low bar in this conference this year, after the top four guys.

The start was rocky. I often didnt like what I was seeing. But lately, I am loving it. Maybe that is just the comp, or an anomoly. But I am chalking it up to coaching. Who knows.

I have nothing to add to the coaching rankings. I happen to agree that CU has looked bad a few times when I watched them. I was shocked at how Nova ended the game Tuesday night. I love how MQ and XU look and CU and UConn are obviously very talented. And PC has been terrific.

I would love to have the kid who played in Kalkbrenners place. Just looked at a few boxes, he had double doubles in two of the thre games Kalk missed

 

[shu09]

I still don't like some of what I'm seeing from Holloway/Seton Hall. I think we are playing a bit better, but most of that is a product of the schedule lightening up.

The next three games will be interesting. One game we should win, two we should not but they are at home. 0-3 = regression. 1-2 = status quo. 2-1 or better = significant improvement.

 

[Seton75]

I still don't like some of what I'm seeing from Holloway/Seton Hall. I think we are playing a bit better, but most of that is a product of the schedule lightening up.

Valid POV imo.

What did you think of the King kid who was the backup center for CU? Two double doubles out of three games, once he went 8 for 8.

 

[shu09]

He stepped up nicely when he was needed. I think the opposing defenses, with Kalkbrenner out, focused on shutting down CU's guards in those games (and they did just that), knowing the pick and roll CU runs with Kalk so often wasn't going to be an issue. Probably not much scouting info on King so he took advantage. Looks like he'll be a factor in the years to come for them.

 

[Bud Boomer]

COY
1. Hurley
2. Skaka

Very Good
3. Miller
4. Cooley
5. McDermott

Good
6. Matta

OK
7. Holloway

Bad
8. Stubblefield
9. Anderson
10. Neptune

Egregious
11. Ewing

 

[Bud Boomer]

I also don't see it as particularly close between McDermott and Holloway right now.

 

[SPK145]

How can Matta be considered doing a very good job?

 

[shu09]

I also don't see it as particularly close between McDermott and Holloway right now.

Curious as to why you have Matta relatively high compared to others.

 

[Bud Boomer]

Curious as to why you have Matta relatively high compared to others.

For Matta, it's performance relative to preseason expectation. Preseason 130 on kenpom, currently ranked 87. As a new coach, I don't dock him as much for having a bad team.