Rate the coaches in the Big East era
Rate the SHU Coaches in the Big East era
- Thread starter Halldan1
- Start date
1. Carlesimo
2. Amaker
3. Willard
4. Orr
5. Gonzalez
6. Raftery
7. Blaney
8. Mahon
2. Amaker
3. Willard
4. Orr
5. Gonzalez
6. Raftery
7. Blaney
8. Mahon
Orr had defense like Willard. His offense was worse than Willard. Those 50 point games were brutal to watch.
Part of the problem with this question is that the head coaches had far different levels of support from the administration and in more then a few cases the lack of financial support did affect them in terms of having the ability to attract talent. Certainly PJ is a no-brainer as number one overall .
From a basketball knowledge perspective I put PJ at number 1 , followed by Hoddy , then Blaney , then Orr.
From a recruiting perspective I would put Amaker at 1, followed by PJ.
Lastly from just running a solid , fundamentally sound program it's PJ at number 1 followed by Kevin.
From a basketball knowledge perspective I put PJ at number 1 , followed by Hoddy , then Blaney , then Orr.
From a recruiting perspective I would put Amaker at 1, followed by PJ.
Lastly from just running a solid , fundamentally sound program it's PJ at number 1 followed by Kevin.
1) PJ and there is no one else close.
2) Amaker - He had the program rolling with a Sweet 16 appearance and so close to that Final 8 appearance
3) Willard - 2 NCAA Tournament berths and a probable third if Delgado returns. Better recruits than Orr.
4) Orr - This is not even good to talk about if Orr is the 4th best coach. Did have NCAA win off the glorious Amaker class
5) Gonzalez - Had to rebuild the program from Orr. Did recruit players like Harvey and Hazell. Was close to getting to the tournament but toxic mix of transfers and his own personality got in the way. Should have been better.
6) Blaney - Job was way over is head. Took over a team that had talent and did nothing with it. Then ran the program into the ground. His shining moment was getting Holloway and a little known recruit named Rimas Kaukanes.
Did not follow the Hall before PJ.
2) Amaker - He had the program rolling with a Sweet 16 appearance and so close to that Final 8 appearance
3) Willard - 2 NCAA Tournament berths and a probable third if Delgado returns. Better recruits than Orr.
4) Orr - This is not even good to talk about if Orr is the 4th best coach. Did have NCAA win off the glorious Amaker class
5) Gonzalez - Had to rebuild the program from Orr. Did recruit players like Harvey and Hazell. Was close to getting to the tournament but toxic mix of transfers and his own personality got in the way. Should have been better.
6) Blaney - Job was way over is head. Took over a team that had talent and did nothing with it. Then ran the program into the ground. His shining moment was getting Holloway and a little known recruit named Rimas Kaukanes.
Did not follow the Hall before PJ.
1). Carlesimo
---- incredibly huge, mind-blowing gap -----
2). Willard
3). Amaker
4). Orr
5). Raftery
6). Blaney
7). Mahon
8). Gonzalez
I can't put Gonzo ahead of anyone. It's beyond win/loss and recruiting on that one for me. Such promise ending in such embarrassment.
---- incredibly huge, mind-blowing gap -----
2). Willard
3). Amaker
4). Orr
5). Raftery
6). Blaney
7). Mahon
8). Gonzalez
I can't put Gonzo ahead of anyone. It's beyond win/loss and recruiting on that one for me. Such promise ending in such embarrassment.
Piratz,
I agree with your ranking and your comments. I would just move you "incredibly huge, mind-blowing gap" down to between 7 and 8. That is how much I feel that Gonzalez embarrassed and disgraced the program and the university.
Considering what he started with (in a deep hole and moved into tough conference) Raf isn't getting the love he deserves. Amaker is getting too much love for the train wreck he created. Hoddy never was given a chance. PJ by a mile is #1. Blaney last by a mile. So:
PJ
Raf
Orr
Willard (trending)
Amaker
Hoddy ( beat Houston with coaching)
Gonzalez
Blaney
PJ
Raf
Orr
Willard (trending)
Amaker
Hoddy ( beat Houston with coaching)
Gonzalez
Blaney
1. Carlesimo
2. Amaker
3. Willard
4. Orr
5. Raftery
6. Blaney
7. Gonzalez
Can't rate Mahon (although he was a great guy!!), he was interim only.
2. Amaker
3. Willard
4. Orr
5. Raftery
6. Blaney
7. Gonzalez
Can't rate Mahon (although he was a great guy!!), he was interim only.
1. PJ
2.WILLARD
3. AMAKER
4. RAFTERY
5. ORR
6. MAHON
7. GONZALEZ
8. BLANEY
NOTE: I'm factoring bench coaching plus recruiting. Some excelled at one but not the other. example Amaker was a great recruiter & mediocre coach. Mahon a terrific bench coach but not a recruiter.
Tom K
2.WILLARD
3. AMAKER
4. RAFTERY
5. ORR
6. MAHON
7. GONZALEZ
8. BLANEY
NOTE: I'm factoring bench coaching plus recruiting. Some excelled at one but not the other. example Amaker was a great recruiter & mediocre coach. Mahon a terrific bench coach but not a recruiter.
Tom K
Gonzalez should not be eligible for any votes or ranking. A total fraud and disgrace. Total lack of class. The stuff he did would curl your hair. The things you know about are only the tip of the iceberg. No rebuttals required.
FWIW
Different eras. Different challenges, Different amounts of money invested in the program.
Amaker 68–55 (.553)
Blaney 38–48 (.442)
Carlesimo 212–166 (.561)
Gonzalez 66–59 (.528)
Mahon 11–16 (.407)
Orr 80–69 (.537)
Rafttery 154–141 (.522)
Willard 128–102 (.557)
Different eras. Different challenges, Different amounts of money invested in the program.
Amaker 68–55 (.553)
Blaney 38–48 (.442)
Carlesimo 212–166 (.561)
Gonzalez 66–59 (.528)
Mahon 11–16 (.407)
Orr 80–69 (.537)
Rafttery 154–141 (.522)
Willard 128–102 (.557)
I went back and forth on that one. Amaker still gets a ton of love from the SHU fans.
Just a note on Hoddy Mahon's one year as SHU coach. The season started with the Pirates going 8-1 with a win over a Final Four Houston Team (Rob Williams, Oligawan. Michaw etc). The only loss was to Kentucky at Kentucky. At the semester break 3 starters flunked out of school (McNeil, Devereau, Young). The rest of the season we went 3-15. Shows that talent surely is a big factor in bench coaching. Hoddy was a good bench coach if he had talented players.
Tom K
Tom K
Ooph... With all the excitement the last couple days of Delgado coming back, I had briefly forgotten how much it has pained me to be a die hard Seton Hall fan for more years than I care to remember...
Willard trending in the right direction after a horrendous middle 3 years of his tenure (15-39 those years) but will take some serious sustained success to ever get above .500 for his career in Big East play.
Sometimes numbers like these are so misleading. Does anyone care if PJ had a losing BE record.
These records must be taken into context. PJ built a program from literally nothing. Every year he improved until he established a consistent winning program that was dangerous in the tournament. Meanwhile Blaney took over a pretty good team from PJ and ran it into the ground. Both men's winning percentage is similar but could they be more different in success?
Carlesimo
1982–83 Seton Hall 6–23 1–15 9th
1983–84 Seton Hall 9–19 2–14 9th
1984–85 Seton Hall 10–18 1–15 9th
1985–86 Seton Hall 14–18 3–13 9th
1986–87 Seton Hall 15–14 4–12 7th NIT First Round
1987–88 Seton Hall 22–13 8–8 6th NCAA Second Round
1988–89 Seton Hall 31–7 11–5 2nd NCAA Runners-up
1989–90 Seton Hall 12–16 5–11 7th
1990–91 Seton Hall 25–9 9–7 T-3rd NCAA Elite Eight
1991–92 Seton Hall 23–9 12–6 T-1st NCAA Sweet 16
1992–93 Seton Hall 28–7 14–4 1st NCAA Second Round
1993–94 Seton Hall 17–13 8–10 7th NCAA First Round
1982–83 Seton Hall 6–23 1–15 9th
1983–84 Seton Hall 9–19 2–14 9th
1984–85 Seton Hall 10–18 1–15 9th
1985–86 Seton Hall 14–18 3–13 9th
1986–87 Seton Hall 15–14 4–12 7th NIT First Round
1987–88 Seton Hall 22–13 8–8 6th NCAA Second Round
1988–89 Seton Hall 31–7 11–5 2nd NCAA Runners-up
1989–90 Seton Hall 12–16 5–11 7th
1990–91 Seton Hall 25–9 9–7 T-3rd NCAA Elite Eight
1991–92 Seton Hall 23–9 12–6 T-1st NCAA Sweet 16
1992–93 Seton Hall 28–7 14–4 1st NCAA Second Round
1993–94 Seton Hall 17–13 8–10 7th NCAA First Round
Perhaps if PJ stayed it was our Zaga moment ...or not. Either way, Blaney wasn't the answer to any question.
Is there any better graphic of how poor SH basketball has been in the BE era when you realize that not one of the 8 head coaches had or has a winning conference record . That's an overall conference record of 247 - 366 (.40.2)
Last edited:
1. Carlesimo: There should be no debate here. It's all about advancing in the NCAA tournament. This is always objective No. 1.
2. Amaker: Nor here. He resurrected a program that had squandered most of what P.J. built and took it to the Sweet Sixteen and also landed the nation's No. 1 class. Of course, that causes some well-documented issues, but lest we forget that Amaker was 31 years old when he was hired. I think he'd know how to deal with that now.
3. Orr: Brought healing to the the fractured post-Amaker team, though losing Griffin certainly aided that cause. Got to two NCAA tournaments - the second with his players, not Amaker's - and should've clearly also earned a bid in 2003. Won that huge first-rounder against Arizona before being smoked by Duke. Again, it's all about winning games in the NCAAs.
4. Willard: Seems to have finally gotten some wind at his back, though it remains to be seen how he can replace all the elements of the vaunted 2014 class (which still hasn't won an NCAA tournament game, keeping him firmly in the No. 4 slot at press time).
5. Raftery: Brought a program into the Big East that clearly wasn't ready to be there. I never saw him coach, but from what I can gather, he was pretty good, but in a tough spot.
6. Blaney: Undid the Carlesimo-era gains, but also secured Shaheen Holloway's services, as well as Levell Sanders'. He mailed it in - I think this was pretty clear - but he did not leave the crater for his successor that ...
7. Gonzalez ... this guy did.
8. Mahon: Mmmm ... yeah.
2. Amaker: Nor here. He resurrected a program that had squandered most of what P.J. built and took it to the Sweet Sixteen and also landed the nation's No. 1 class. Of course, that causes some well-documented issues, but lest we forget that Amaker was 31 years old when he was hired. I think he'd know how to deal with that now.
3. Orr: Brought healing to the the fractured post-Amaker team, though losing Griffin certainly aided that cause. Got to two NCAA tournaments - the second with his players, not Amaker's - and should've clearly also earned a bid in 2003. Won that huge first-rounder against Arizona before being smoked by Duke. Again, it's all about winning games in the NCAAs.
4. Willard: Seems to have finally gotten some wind at his back, though it remains to be seen how he can replace all the elements of the vaunted 2014 class (which still hasn't won an NCAA tournament game, keeping him firmly in the No. 4 slot at press time).
5. Raftery: Brought a program into the Big East that clearly wasn't ready to be there. I never saw him coach, but from what I can gather, he was pretty good, but in a tough spot.
6. Blaney: Undid the Carlesimo-era gains, but also secured Shaheen Holloway's services, as well as Levell Sanders'. He mailed it in - I think this was pretty clear - but he did not leave the crater for his successor that ...
7. Gonzalez ... this guy did.
8. Mahon: Mmmm ... yeah.
Agree to disagree on Amaker. Credit taking Blaney team to 16. Damage done outweighs any positive spin in the end.
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