Rate the SHU Coaches in the Big East era

[radecicco]

Good analysis Source. There were two complete rebuilds in that group. Obviously PJ built it from scratch. And Willard, who has had to rebuild the image, brand, culture and talent level. It's taken time and now, as you say, can he keep it going.

I don't put Amaker in the total rebuild mode but he did some heavy lifting and he did it fast. Would have been very interesting had he stayed.

 

[Pirate64]

PJ left an empty cookie jar. His recruiting slipped after Jerry/ Terry.
Gentleman George was not the right fit for the gritty Big East and stunk at recruiting (with one major exception) but was probably the best X's and O's coach on the list.

And of all our coaches, Blaney's legacy has outlasted the others.
He brought in Shaheen Holloway.

 

[Pirate6711]

Agree to disagree on Amaker. Credit taking Blaney team to 16. Damage done outweighs any positive spin in the end.

What damage done? Eddie Griffin? Leaving for a better paying job?

He went to the Sweet 16, got some big-time donations, and loaded the cupboard for his successor (Barrett, Toney-El, Lane, Sweet, Allen). He walked into a bad situation and did a good job in a short period of time. Along with probably 99% of SHU fans, I would have loved to see what he could have done if he stayed rather than leave for Michigan.

 

[SPK145]

Agree to disagree on Amaker. Credit taking Blaney team to 16.

Ridiculous, that team was several years removed from Blaney.

 

[SPK145]

I don't put Amaker in the total rebuild mode but he did some heavy lifting and he did it fast. Would have been very interesting had he stayed.

Another ridiculous, he had to rebuild more than Willard had to.

 

[radecicco]

Another ridiculous, he had to rebuild more than Willard had to.

Totally disagree. Amaker did a great job and as I said he did it fast. Willard came into a few decent players but a totally dysfunctional situation on all levels-- we were a laughing stock, our brand, never strong, was in the toilet, no parent in their right mind was going no to send their kid to Seton Hall, the atheletic department administration was non existent, facilities were a mess. It's ridiculous to suggest Amaker came into a tougher situation than Willard.

 

[SPK145]

Totally disagree. Amaker did a great job and as I said he did it fast. Willard came into a few decent players but a totally dysfunctional situation on all levels-- we were a laughing stock, our brand, never strong, was in the toilet, no parent in their right mind was going no to send their kid to Seton Hall, It's ridiculous to suggest Amaker came into a tougher situation than Willard.

Willard was left with TONS more talent than Amaker was. The athletic department administration and facilities were even worse when Amaker took over.

 

[Piratz]

The breakdown of Carlesimo's record in the Big East is pretty wild:

First 5 seasons = 11-69 (.138)
Final 7 seasons = 67-51 (.568)

 

[radecicco]

Willard was left with TONS more talent than Amaker was. The athletic department administration and facilities were even worse when Amaker took over.

I think we're arguing over degrees. I said that Willard had some pieces, not tons of talent. They didn't mesh, he had to throw guys off the team, plus Hazell missed a ton of games with injuries. He got the team to a 20 win season in year two with arguably less talent.
My point is the reputation of the program was in the gutter. Gonzalez was a disaster and his stench wasn't going away anytime soon. IMO, that was much more difficult to overcome than what Amaker took over from Blaney. And as I said, Amaker did some heavy lifting and he did it fast. But he didn't have to rebuild a brand that was in the toilet.

 

[SPK145]

But he didn't have to rebuild a brand that was in the toilet.

I've always said that was overemphasized and Ed Cooley at Providence proved it.

 

[radecicco]

I've always said that was overemphasized and Ed Cooley at Providence proved it.

We just don't agree. Cooley didn't have to deal with the lingering effects of nut punches and department store thievery by the head coach. In any event both SHU and Providence are in a good place now.

 

[SPK145]

We just don't agree. Cooley didn't have to deal with the lingering effects of nut punches and department store thievery by the head coach. In any event both SHU and Providence are in a good place now.

Cooley had to deal with a lot of off the court legal issues with players left over from Keno Davis.

 

[cernjSHU]

Agree to disagree on Amaker. Credit taking Blaney team to 16. Damage done outweighs any positive spin in the end.

What damage was done by Amaker? You mean leaving behind a class A recruiting class that formed the core of Orr's only team that won an Tournament game? Coaches leave schools for bigger jobs all the time. Yes, no one likes the way Amaker did it. But this program was better for having Amaker as a coach.

Btw, why does everyone think that Griffin was the cause of all the problems his year here? Ty Shine was a problem in my opinion. He thought he should be starting over Barrett which was completely ridiculous. He was very much part of the problem.

 

[MBF72]

P.J. then Willard and everyone else a distant third.

What was Amaker's /Hall's record the year after making a modest NCAA run with Blaney's players? First round loss in the NIT.

Thought about this surrounding the inflated hoopla of Duval. Reminded me of the one-year Eddie Griffiin debacle. Apologists will say they are different kids, but still the similarities are troubling.

Thanks for posting Raftery,'s BE record. I was pilloried recently here by stating how out-of-his-league he was then.

 

[MBF72]

I think if Bobby could have held it together mentally and if he retained the ambition, work ethic and recruiting approach that he had at Manhattan, he may have been much higher on this list. Talk about throwing it down the drain. Wasted potential.

He was an embarrassment to the school.

 

[MBF72]

Considering what he started with (in a deep hole and moved into tough conference) Raf isn't getting the love he deserves. Amaker is getting too much love for the train wreck he created. Hoddy never was given a chance. PJ by a mile is #1. Blaney last by a mile. So:

PJ
Raf
Orr
Willard (trending)
Amaker
Hoddy ( beat Houston with coaching)
Gonzalez
Blaney

"Raf" at 5-15 and going no where? Seriously?

 

[MBF72]

What damage was done by Amaker? You mean leaving behind a class A recruiting class that formed the core of Orr's only team that won an Tournament game? Coaches leave schools for bigger jobs all the time. Yes, no one likes the way Amaker did it. But this program was better for having Amaker as a coach.

Btw, why does everyone think that Griffin was the cause of all the problems his year here? Ty Shine was a problem in my opinion. He thought he should be starting over Barrett which was completely ridiculous. He was very much part of the problem.[/QUOTE

The only good player Amaker left was Barrett?

 

[MBF72]

I went back and forth on that one. Amaker still gets a ton of love from the SHU fans.

Kind-of like Nixon.

 

[Vegas pj]

He was an embarrassment to the school.

And himself.