Sessions

[knowknow456]

Does anyone really understand what is going on between President Trump and AG Sessions? As I remember, Sessions was an early and ardent Trump supporter and his conservative bonafides are above reproach. I don't see how this line of attack by the President is good.

 

[Merge]

Appears he is unwilling to fire him, and wants him to resign. Probably needs someone more loyal.

 

[cernjSHU]

Simple. Trump wants his AG to run the Russian investigation. Sessions recused himself so now Trump does not have power over the investigation since it is being run by Mueller. This infuriates Trump and this is why he is angry at Sessions.

 

[HALL85]

I don't think anything is clear. Trump has shown to be the master of misdirection. What I have learned is that everybody thinks they know what Trump is doing, really don't know what Trump is doing.

 

[Merge]

I don't think anything is clear. Trump has shown to be the master of misdirection. What I have learned is that everybody thinks they know what Trump is doing, really don't know what Trump is doing.

He is acting like a buffoon and continuing to lose support.

If he has some mastermind plan that will make reasonable people think acting like a 15 year old girl on twitter is somehow presidential, I will be very impressed.

And yes, I am further disgusted by his action today regarding transgender people serving in the military. There are thounsands of them willing to die for their country and Trump chose that issue to throw some red meat to his base. One of the members of SEAL team 6 that killed bin laden is trans. Trump is a piece of shit.

 

[HALL85]

He is acting like a buffoon (Yes he is) and continuing to lose support (Is he really?).

If he has some mastermind plan that will make reasonable people think acting like a 15 year old girl on twitter is somehow presidential, I will be very impressed. (I guess this means that 15 year old girls can line up for the 2020 nominations)

And yes, I am further disgusted by his action today regarding transgender people serving in the military. There are thounsands of them willing to die for their country and Trump chose that issue to throw some red meat to his base. (Yes he did...see support above). One of the members of SEAL team 6 that killed bin laden is trans. Trump is a piece of shit.

You can call him all those names - that I don't necessarily disagree (and by the way you sound like a school-girl too), but the reality is that he has been one step ahead of all the "political experts", which tells you a lot about how smart they were.

FWIW, I thought McCain's speech yesterday hit the mark and was totally on point and one the Senate, House and President should heed. But they won't. The 15 year old school girl got elected because Washington has demonstrated they are a big kindergarten cluster.

 

[knowknow456]

acting like a 15 year old girl on twitter is somehow presidential

At one point I almost asked this question as a stand alone thread but since you mention it, I am wondering how many of the people here follow the President on Twitter? For the record, I do.

 

[Merge]

Yes he is continuing to lose support. Rasmussen, Gallup and Reuters all have him trending downward.

Reasonable people do not think it is acceptable to bash your attorney general on twitter mere months after nominating him... though many of his supporters will be with him till the end.

 

[Merge]

At one point I almost asked this question as a stand alone thread but since you mention it, I am wondering how many of the people here follow the President on Twitter? For the record, I do.

I do not. I don't really use twitter for politics though. I do follow some people that talk about politics though, like when I saw this retweet today.

 

[HALL85]

At one point I almost asked this question as a stand alone thread but since you mention it, I am wondering how many of the people here follow the President on Twitter? For the record, I do.

I don't use Twitter at all.

 

[Section112]

I don't like the tweets but I also don't like Sessions. What a President should do is meet with his AG and hash things out to determine if they can coexist. That is how I do business and Trump should stop playing around. It's amazing to me that I'd never work for the guy but folks will line up for the AG spot if it opens up. Sessions is not my favorite but he also doesn't deserve how he is being treated by the President.

 

[knowknow456]

Yes he is continuing to lose support. Rasmussen, Gallup and Reuters all have him trending downward.

At one point I almost asked this question as a stand alone thread, but since you mention it, even though Trump is polling historically low for a first term President his popularity numbers has remained fairly steady in the high 30's for a couple of months.

In my personal life, I cannot find a single Trump supporter who regrets their choice. Does anyone have anecdotal evidence that is different?

 

[chickenbox]

Owing to his involvement in Trump's campaign, Sessions effectively had no choice but to recuse himself from an investigation of Trump's campaign, by rule of law. This of course angers Trump, who clearly has little interest in or understanding of such a thing.

 

[cernjSHU]

At one point I almost asked this question as a stand alone thread, but since you mention it, even though Trump is polling historically low for a first term President his popularity numbers has remained fairly steady in the high 30's for a couple of months.

In my personal life, I cannot find a single Trump supporter who regrets their choice. Does anyone have anecdotal evidence that is different?

The true Trump people that I know still firmly back him. There is nothing that can be shown to them that will change their views. He has a hold on a certain segment of the population. Now, there are other people who are not the true believers in Trump that voted for him and are not happy with what is going on with him. Now, I never asked that particular question of them do they regret their vote.

 

[Pirata]

In my personal life, I cannot find a single Trump supporter who regrets their choice. Does anyone have anecdotal evidence that is different?

I voted for Trump based on the issues as opposed to worshiping the person.

While I am not thrilled at some of his antics, there is an argument that some/much of it is done in response to an extremely biased media.

Assuming the choice you speak of was a choice of Hillary and her policies and Trump and his policies, I can say that I do not regret the choice I made.

I do regret that his election has resulted in a political circus. I was heartened by McCain's speech the other day, but disheartened that moments later Schumer pissed all over that message and we are back to a Congress that fights among itself. I was also hearten by Pelosi's speech after Scalise was ot and again disheartened when the right dismissed her remarks as disingenuous.

I am not thrilled with people who worship Trump blindly nor am I thrilled at people who hate him. I'd like to see less worry that he tweets and more worry about getting our three branches to function as they were intended to.

I think there are sufficient checks and balances to accommodate our different views. liberal/conservative - capitalism/socialism, etc view points.

 

[Pirata]

This of course angers Trump, who clearly has little interest in or understanding of such a thing.

No basis for that declaration.

I think the issue is whether one believes there is any merit to the Russian collusion theory or not.

I believe Trump is not happy with Sessions because Trump feels an excessive amount of time and resources are being spent on the the Russian investigation and not enough effort being done on the leaking within the intelligence community.

Trump haters say that Trump is trying to stop the Russian investigation because he is guilty and should be impeached and imprisoned in order to save the USA and democracy..

Trump advocates believe the Russian investigation is a wasted effort on a supposed crime that never happened and is distracting him from his agenda.

 

[shu09]

I have what is most likely a very uncommon view on Trump. I was a two-time Obama voter who did not vote for either Trump or Clinton last year. I wrote in Joe Biden as a protest vote for two candidates I thought did not prove themselves worthy of the job based on the bitter and divisive campaign. Also, I said to myself long ago that I would never, ever cast a vote for Hillary Clinton. I had always felt she was a phony who had a sense of entitlement that the job belonged to her ever since her husband was in the White House. So I couldn't vote for her and I couldn't vote for Trump because of how he conducted himself during the campaign.

When Trump won, I said I'd give him a chance because the campaign was over and we needed to move on. I think I've done that, and I'd call him an average president to date. There have been bumps in the road, but honestly he has done better than I expected. The personal conduct will always be a problem, but you have to take the good with the bad to evaluate Trump fairly and objectively.

 

[donnie_baseball]

He is acting like a buffoon and continuing to lose support.

If he has some mastermind plan that will make reasonable people think acting like a 15 year old girl on twitter is somehow presidential, I will be very impressed.

And yes, I am further disgusted by his action today regarding transgender people serving in the military. There are thounsands of them willing to die for their country and Trump chose that issue to throw some red meat to his base. One of the members of SEAL team 6 that killed bin laden is trans. Trump is a piece of shit.

Don't disagree with your opening salvos, but the DOD made this decision, and the SEAL being held up as an example transitioned after retirement. So this ban wouldn't affect people who serve as what they genotypically, phenotypically, and realistically are (man or woman), and then decide to mutilate themselves once they have been discharged or retired.

 

[Pirata]

And yes, I am further disgusted by his action today regarding transgender people serving in the military. There are thounsands of them willing to die for their country and Trump chose that issue to throw some red meat to his base. One of the members of SEAL team 6 that killed bin laden is trans. Trump is a piece of shit.

"Trump is a piece of shit" - Now there is a truly intelligent and articulate conclusion showing great emotional maturity.

Anyway, your example of the Seal Team transgender is flawed as stated in a previous response. Beck transitioned after retirement. No way to know how much was going on in his (he was a he back then) mind while in service and how much counseling or treatment was sought or given back than.

There are two things going on with this latest Tweet from the POTUS.

First, there is the political intrigue as to why he Tweeted it while Mattis was on vacation and why he didn't wait until the end of the 6 month extension of the review that was taking place on allowing incoming recruits. This issue has been going on for a while.

Second is the issue itself of whether to allow transgenders to serve.

I won't comment on the political intrigue and prefer to let that play out and hopefully we will see why he did it this way.

Regarding the issue, I'd first state that I served for more than 4 years '79-'83 as both a line and staff officer in a combat engineer battalion. I'll also state that my cousin's daughter is transgender and now identifies as a gay male.

The Army days gave experience dealing with troop issues around homosexuality, mental illness, criminal behavior, medical discharges, and other issues. There was a bunch of time spent on the administrative and leadership aspects of those things.

Regarding my cousin, I am close to that situation and understand the challenges of the transgender individual and their families and friends. Much good has come out of his transition but it has not exactly been a walk in the park for him or us.

With respect to the military, there is no doubt than a transgender can serve but also no doubt that some portion of that cohort have sufficient physical, emotional, and mental issues that would make it imprudent to allow them to serve.

I would have preferred that Trump not unilaterally declare that all transgenders cannot serve. I would have preferred that he waited until the six months were up and would have hoped that a policy would emerge that allowed transgenders to serve if they could demonstrate that their emotional and mental state is sound and would not impact their ability to perform their duties.

If you served, you know that all who enter service are psychologically tested (as was I) and done so for good reason. For transgender, I would want to see if they are clinically afflicted with Gender Dysphoria and if so what is their mental and emotional state. I don't view this as singling any group out. As I said, everyone gets tested and for good reason.

I believe the above is the primary consideration. There are other issues such as not allowing the military to be free sex change therapy and surgery clinic. I.e, I turn 18, decide to transgender, can't afford the therapy or the operations and so just enlist. The issues about bathrooms and privacy can be resolved.

 

[Pirata]

and then decide to mutilate themselves once they have been discharged or retired.

That comment shows complete ignorance in general and ignorance of the transgender subject.

 

[donnie_baseball]

That comment shows complete ignorance in general and ignorance of the transgender subject.

Ok, why don't you share your psychiatric and sociological expertise on the matter -- your four years in the Army (and thank you for your service) notwithstanding? The DSM still lists (and with social pressure will undoubtedly change) gender dysphoria among its ailments. Maybe you can parse transgenderism from dysphoria, as non-scientific people are trying to draw a distinction between sex and gender (and there is no scientific basis there).

 

[Pirata]

My comment to was based on your reference to transgender surgery as mutilation.

Shall I give you my second cousin's contact info and you can say that to his face?

 

[Pirata]

Maybe you can parse transgenderism from dysphoria

You can start with this: http://www.transchristians.org/trans-101/trans-101-gid-vs-gender-dysphoria

I found that article subsequent to my post and yours. My post was based on prior knowledge and experie. The article seems lik e good conscie starting point.

I believe my post was consistent in this thinking in that I said there are transgender people who are physically, emotionally and mentally fine. There are also those who are not. As to precisely what their condition is, is still a matter of the gray and unknown area of the various medical and psychological discipline involved. yes those definitions are evolving and under pressure to remove stigmas, etc.

A key point in the article above is that we should not lump all transgender situations into the same category and hence my position that I don't agree with Trump's unilateral position. He is lumping all into single category and preventing military service from people who in my opinion should be allowed to serve.

I do agree that if a transgender person has what is for now defined as gender dysphoria, there are reasonable odds that their physical, emotional, or mental condition would preclude military service and that we should test for that before allowing them to serve.

As an example, someone going through hormone therapy might have their cognitive and decision making ability compromised. Given the life and death decisions that must be made in combat (and in non-combat support roles) I think it reasonable that we ensure that people placed in the position to make those decisions have their collective shit together. I have personal experience with commanders who would fall into, for lack of a better word, the "normal" category and who folded completely while under pressure. I would not want to serve above, next to, or under someone who is excessively afflicted by depression, mood swings, uncertainty, etc.

 

[chickenbox]

No basis for that declaration.

Disagree. I think there is sufficient basis from his behavior regarding the Sessions recusal alone. And for those who do not, there are ample additional examples to easily make the case.

 

[HALL85]

At one point I almost asked this question as a stand alone thread, but since you mention it, even though Trump is polling historically low for a first term President his popularity numbers has remained fairly steady in the high 30's for a couple of months.

In my personal life, I cannot find a single Trump supporter who regrets their choice. Does anyone have anecdotal evidence that is different?

Just listening to Trump supporters in general I would break them down into two groups. There are the hard-core supporters that see him as the consummate outsider and fighting for them. It seems like they have doubled down in their support of him and have directed more of their disdain to Congress and the MSM. The tweets don't bother them a bit because they see him as fighting for them.

Then there is a more moderate group that voted for him simply because they were anti-Hillary and her policies. More of a wait and see approach that is much more bothered by the tweets and personality. I haven't met anyone in this group that regrets voting for him though. Still better than Hillary. while they may not have a high approval of Trump, their opinion of Congress and the MSM is much much lower.

Which is where people need to be careful with these poll results. Trump may be lower than any other president but Congress and the media are also at all-time lows. McCain makes a great speech and nothing happens.

Speaking of the media, my wife, who didn't vote for Trump or Hillary, made what I thought was an interesting comment the other day. She told me to do a Google search on news stories of Melania Trump and Michelle Obama. There were very few positive stories on Melania. Nothing about being able to speak five languages, nothing about making the decision to focus on raising their child, nothing about her views regarding their first six months as the First Lady.... most of the stories or about the hand slaps, missed handshakes and overspending on security measures. Contrast that to the stories in the MSM about Michelle. It's telling and people notice.

 

[Merge]

"Trump is a piece of shit" - Now there is a truly intelligent and articulate conclusion showing great emotional maturity.

Sorry, that was out of frustration. I don't think this move was anything other than throwing something out there that he base will support. I have LGBT friends and family and am sad to see them feel marginalized.

Anyway, your example of the Seal Team transgender is flawed as stated in a previous response. Beck transitioned after retirement. No way to know how much was going on in his (he was a he back then) mind while in service and how much counseling or treatment was sought or given back than.

It applies. Her gender identity issues didn't start the day after she left. It was a part of who she was when she served.

If you served, you know that all who enter service are psychologically tested (as was I) and done so for good reason. For transgender, I would want to see if they are clinically afflicted with Gender Dysphoria and if so what is their mental and emotional state. I don't view this as singling any group out. As I said, everyone gets tested and for good reason.

But there are thousands in the military currently who identify as transgender and went through the psychological testing already which allowed them to serve.

believe the above is the primary consideration. There are other issues such as not allowing the military to be free sex change therapy and surgery clinic. I.e, I turn 18, decide to transgender, can't afford the therapy or the operations and so just enlist.

That is an easy problem to solve without saying the thousands of you currently serving are not worthy to serve.

 

[Pirata]

I have LGBT friends and family and am sad to see them feel marginalized.

But there are thousands in the military currently who identify as transgender and went through the psychological testing already which allowed them to serve.

I too have LGBT friends, family, and colleagues. This issue is about T and so not sure why we are bringing in LBGs into the discussion. A decision about T's has nothing to do with LGBs. It is a very different discussion. In general I am not a big fan of lumping all those in one cohort. Having personal experience with Ts, I know there is a much higher likelihood that physical, emotional, and mental issues are present. That is not to say that all Ts experience that and many do not.

Nonetheless, I agree with you that Trump's handling of this was abysmal. Again I believe it was a mix of political maneuvering and bad communication at the expense of good and honorable people.

As of now his tweet has no impact on policy or procedure. For now it is just really bad form. I wish he wouldn't do it We have to see how an actual policy plays out. I stand by my previous comments which stated pretty clearly that a transgender should be allowed to serve if they are physically, emotionally, and mentally able to do so. The same criteria holds for any person regardless of race, creed, color, sexual orientation, etc.

 

[Merge]

I too have LGBT friends, family, and colleagues. This issue is about T and so not sure why we are bringing in LBGs into the discussion. A decision about T's has nothing to do with LGBs.

Maybe, maybe not. I think the change in perception over T's has allowed some L&G's to be more open with the issue of gender, and allow them to question if they do want to live as the opposite gender. I don't really want to go into details about the people I know but that is how it appears to me.

I stand by my previous comments which stated pretty clearly that a transgender should be allowed to serve if they are physically, emotionally, and mentally able to do so.

Right, but haven't they already passed the applicable exams to say they are fit to serve? That's my issue with what Trump did.

 

[SPK145]

This issue should be about the individual not the broad brush Trump painted. If you're already transgender or going through that but otherwise a good member of the armed services, who cares?

Need to realize though that some going through this might not be able to handle the transition and military service and they should be asked to leave until they are better able to handle both.

That's the individual side to this, something few seem to acknowledge or really care about, it's all about the agenda from both sides.

 

[Merge]

This issue should be about the individual not the broad brush Trump painted. If you're already transgender or going through that but otherwise a good member of the armed services, who cares?

Need to realize though that some going through this might not be able to handle the transition and military service and they should be asked to leave until they are better able to handle both.

That's the individual side to this, something few seem to acknowledge or really care about, it's all about the agenda from both sides.

It's not about an agenda from the people who support their ability to serve.

If we declare someone is fit to serve, then they are fit to serve.
If you remove that ability for anything other than fitness, it is about an agenda.

If there was an issue about their transition and they have found that is not working for service, that is entirely appropriate. But that is not what they did. The ONLY agenda here is Trump throwing something to his base.

 

[SPK145]

The ONLY agenda here is Trump throwing something to his base.

That's only part of it, the other part is those that say they should serve regardless of their current personal situation, which is as equally disgusting as Trump's position. No regard for the individual, just an overreaching agenda.

 

[Merge]

That's only part of it, the other part is those that say they should serve regardless of their current personal situation, which is as equally disgusting as Trump's position. No regard for the individual, just an overreaching agenda.

They should be treated the same as everyone else in the military, no?

 

[SPK145]

They should be treated the same as everyone else in the military, no?

Yes and that is not the blanket no questions asked the LGBT special interest group demands, no?

Individuals of all walks can and do change over time and that must be balanced with the rigors of military service.

 

[Pirata]

Right, but haven't they already passed the applicable exams to say they are fit to serve? That's my issue with what Trump did.

Unless I am missing something, I think we are in agreement.

 

[Pirata]

My wife and I saw Shakespeare's Troilus and Cressida performed on Saturday. It is one of his historic genre plays about the Trojan War. It is somewhat of a comedy that shows a caricature that our heroes
may not be as perfect as we think.

It was Shake's first play to portray an openly gay relationship wherein previously he was more subtle. In this play it was Achilles and Patroclus shown as lovers. If you study Greek military history at any length there is ample evidence that homosexual relationships were part of the deal. The Romans also had their share. I never seen any mention of transgender from those times but I cannot imagine it did not occur.

Interesting enough, our theater received a complaint by a patron as to "why did we have to add a homosexual scene to the play?"

One, it is the way Shakespeare wrote the play.

Two, we still have a long way to go before society learns how to accept each other differences, whether race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, political beliefs, hair color, and just about anything else that makes us unique and different.