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Seton Hall notebook

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Jan 1, 2003
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By Adam Zagoria | For NJ Advance Media

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Seton Hall head coach Shaheen Holloway and the Pirates were picked sixth in the Big East by Lindy's.


The Lindy’s College Basketball preview magazine is out and the Big East picks are in.


Under first-year coach Shaheen Holloway, Seton Hall was picked sixth in the 11-team Big East Conference.


Creighton, which ranks No. 4 nationally in the Lindy’s Top 10 behind North Carolina, Houston and Gonzaga, was picked to win the conference.


Here’s the full Lindy’s Big East poll:


1. Creighton
2. Villanova
3. UConn
4. Xavier
5. Providence
6. Seton Hall
7. St. John’s
8. Butler
9. Marquette
10. Georgetown
11. DePaul


Holloway said in a phone interview this week his team has been limited in its ability to practice 5-on-5 due to injuries to several players, including Alexis Yetna, transfer Abdou Ndiaye and freshman JaQuan Harris. He said none of the injuries are major, but have still kept the players sidelined.

If the 6-foot-8 Yetna and the 6-9 Ndiaye are healthy, Seton Hall will have an imposing and diverse frontcourt that also features 6-7 Saint Peter’s transfer KC Ndefo, 6-10 senior Tray Jackson and 6-10 senior Tyrese Samuel.

“We’re not really tall but I got some good size where I can play them in different spots,” Holloway said of his frontcourt players.

“I’ve been letting those guys know, ‘Listen, you guys are my guys, I’m going to rock with you guys,’” Holloway added. “‘I believe in you guys.”
 
HURLEY EXPECTS ‘STREET FIGHTS’ WITH SETON HALL

Dan Hurley’s UConn team played Saint Peter’s once when Holloway coached the Jersey City school -- and that was enough.

The Huskies beat the Peacocks, 66-56, on Dec. 18, 2019, but Holloway’s club outscored Hurley’s team, 34-26, in the second half.

And that was two seasons before Holloway led the Peacocks on a Cinderella run to the Elite Eight of the NCAA Tournament that included wins over No. 2 Kentucky, No. 3 Purdue and No. 7 Murray State -- before they fell to No. 8 North Carolina, the national runner-up.

“There’s a reason why we played Shaheen once at Saint Peter’s and never invited them back, you know,” Hurley, the Jersey City native and former Seton Hall guard, said this week while at a coaches clinic at White Plains (N.Y.) Archbishop Stepinac High School.

“Shaheen coaches it the way he played it, the way we all played it in North Jersey and New York. I think our games with them are going to be an absolute friggin’ street fight and they’re going to bring that to every game. I think his identity fits the school and the area really well.”

Holloway, who was named the best coaching hire of 2022 by CBSSports.com, is one of four new coaches in the Big East this season along with Villanova’s Kyle Neptune, Xavier’s Sean Miller and Butler’s Thad Matta.



“I think it’s exciting, it’s always fun and exciting getting ready for some really accomplished coaches, especially with Sean and Thad coming into the league,” Hurley said. “It’s an honor to coach in such a historic league and a great basketball league.”


HOLLOWAY TARGETING TOP 2024 RECRUITS

During this live recruiting period, Holloway and his staff have been out visiting with some of the top Class of 2024 prospects in the area.

On Wednesday, Holloway was at Stepinac for Boogie Fland, the No. 12 player nationally according to 247Sports.com.

“He’s interested, they want me at their program,” Fland said.

Asked Holloway’s message to him, he said, “Just mostly keep working.”

There is a long line of coaches coming after Fland, a Bronx native who won a gold medal this summer with the USA U17 team in Spain.

North Carolina’s Hubert Davis, Oregon’s Dana Altman, UConn’s Hurley and Villanova’s Neptune were all in last week for Fland, who has set an official visit to North Carolina for Sept. 30.

“It’s exciting seeing them on the sidelines, it just means I gotta play up to expectations,” Fland said. “It’s just excitement , I enjoy it.”

Seton Hall was also at Cardinal Hayes on Tuesday for Ian Jackson, the No. 1 shooting guard in the Class of 2024, and Elijah Moore, the No. 13 shooting guard.

The Pirates are also involved for Class of 2024 Hudson Catholic guard Tahaad Pettiford, who this weekend took an official to Auburn and is setting up visits to UCLA and Kentucky.

Pettiford won’t take an official to Seton Hall, but can always visit unofficially.

“Shaheen is great,” said Travis Pettiford, Tahaad’s father.

In the Class of 2023, Seton Hall will host 7-footer Youssouf Singare of Our Saviour Lutheran on Thursday and Friday. Singare recently visited UConn and will also visit Providence.

The Pirates will also host 6-10 Baye Fall and 6-10 Assane Diop of Lutheran High School (Parker, CO) on Sept. 28. Fall also has Rutgers in his final seven and visited earlier this month. The duo visited Seton Hall unofficially in May.


Adam Zagoria is a freelance reporter who covers Seton Hall and NJ college basketball for NJ Advance Media. You may follow him on Twitter @AdamZagoria and check out his Website at ZAGSBLOG.com.
 
I think 6 is low.

Our 4 incoming transfers are undervalued starters from either a high major or a tourney team and our 5 holdovers are either steady rotation players (Yetna, Harris) or high potential all big east type players if they bring their energy (Richmond, Jackson, Samuel).

We are good enough to be 3rd in the big east if it all clicks. But if it doesn’t I can see us slipping to 6-7th too.

I’m worried about next year pending recruits/transfers incoming for 2023 but I think we are a solid squad going an easy 9 deep this year.
 
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I think 6 is low.

Our 4 incoming transfers are undervalued starters from either a high major or a tourney team and our 5 holdovers are either steady rotation players (Yetna, Harris) or high potential all big east type players if they bring their energy (Richmond, Jackson, Samuel).

We are good enough to be 3rd in the big east if it all clicks. But if it doesn’t I can see us slipping to 6-7th too.

I’m worried about next year pending recruits/transfers incoming for 2023 but I think we are a solid squad going an easy 9 deep this year.
Put another way, we will potentially start three players who were starters for bottom-half ACC teams a year ago. For those that aren't Seton Hall fans, it's easy to see how that wouldn't impress.

All are seemingly nice players but probably not good enough to elevate a team on a consistent basis. As you say, the potential is there for a very good year but a mid-pack Big East finish should surprise no one.
 
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Expectations are way too high for Creighton. They might win the Big East, but it's no sure thing. I see them more 15-20 nationally rather than top 10.
 
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Yes I agree with Lindy's. I think the team will finish between 6th-8th. This will be a good but not great team. Regardless I can't wait for the season. Go Pirates!
 
Put another way, we will potentially start three players who were starters for bottom-half ACC teams a year ago. For those that aren't Seton Hall fans, it's easy to see how that wouldn't impress.

All are seemingly nice players but probably not good enough to elevate a team on a consistent basis. As you say, the potential is there for a very good year but a mid-pack Big East finish should surprise no one.
This makes little sense to me as their stats were earned playing all levels of competition in the ACC, it's not like they just played lower tier competition. Good stats on a mediocre D-1 team playing high level competition, bodes well for a player who moves to a team that will have better players. Just think of the transfers with great stats in a mid-major school that are busts when they move to high major teams
 
This makes little sense to me as their stats were earned playing all levels of competition in the ACC, it's not like they just played lower tier competition. Good stats on a mediocre D-1 team playing high level competition, bodes well for a player who moves to a team that will have better players. Just think of the transfers with great stats in a mid-major school that are busts when they move to high major teams
Mid major players moving to high D1 almost always lose minutes snd points according to an analysis done by The Athletic.
 
the reality is the difference between 6th and 3rd is probably 1 game. If you think back to our 17-18 team, we played butler on senior day (no Desi and no Ish). If we won we would finish 3rd, and if we lost, we would have been 7th. We ended up winning to finish 3rd.
 
This makes little sense to me as their stats were earned playing all levels of competition in the ACC, it's not like they just played lower tier competition. Good stats on a mediocre D-1 team playing high level competition, bodes well for a player who moves to a team that will have better players. Just think of the transfers with great stats in a mid-major school that are busts when they move to high major teams
Maybe this will make some sense then. Of the three, only Odukale performed even equally as well against the top competition in the ACC as the bottom.

Odukale averaged 9.9 ppg in 20 ACC games. In 10 games against teams that finished at or above .500, he averaged 12.1 per game. That average was helped significantly by a 25-point game against Virginia Tech and a 23-point game against Wake Forest. He also scored 16 in a second game against Va. Tech. He had seven double-digit scoring games. In 10 games against sub .500 teams he averaged just 7.7 ppg with five games of 10 or more.

Dawes averaged 11.3 ppg in 22 ACC games. In 13 games against the top tier of the league, he averaged 9.8 ppg and only scored 10 or more points four times. In nine games versus the sub .500 teams, he averaged 14.4 ppg with seven double-digit outings.

Davis averaged 7.3 ppg in 20 ACC games. In 13 games against .500 and better schools he averaged 6.5 per game. He scored a season-high 18 against Miami but had only one more double-digit game (three) than scoreless games (two). In seven games against the bottom tier teams, he averaged 8.7 ppg scoring 10 or more point three times and nine points on another occasion.
 
Mid major players moving to high D1 almost always lose minutes snd points according to an analysis done by The Athletic.
That's my point. We got high major transfers who should produce equally, or better at SHU. Being surrounded by players who are decent high major players, should help our transfers' production. Just because they played for lower rated ACC teams doesn't mean they are very good transfers.
 
Maybe this will make some sense then. Of the three, only Odukale performed even equally as well against the top competition in the ACC as the bottom.

Odukale averaged 9.9 ppg in 20 ACC games. In 10 games against teams that finished at or above .500, he averaged 12.1 per game. That average was helped significantly by a 25-point game against Virginia Tech and a 23-point game against Wake Forest. He also scored 16 in a second game against Va. Tech. He had seven double-digit scoring games. In 10 games against sub .500 teams he averaged just 7.7 ppg with five games of 10 or more.

Dawes averaged 11.3 ppg in 22 ACC games. In 13 games against the top tier of the league, he averaged 9.8 ppg and only scored 10 or more points four times. In nine games versus the sub .500 teams, he averaged 14.4 ppg with seven double-digit outings.

Davis averaged 7.3 ppg in 20 ACC games. In 13 games against .500 and better schools he averaged 6.5 per game. He scored a season-high 18 against Miami but had only one more double-digit game (three) than scoreless games (two). In seven games against the bottom tier teams, he averaged 8.7 ppg scoring 10 or more point three times and nine points on another occasion.
Thanks for doing all that work to prove my point.

Our top three scorers were Rhoden, Cale and Richmond, I didn't include Aiken as he only played 6 BE games.

Our top 3 scorers stats against Big East teams at/above .500:
- Rhoden 14 PPG
- Cale 10.6 PPG
- Richmond 9.7 PPG

According to your calculations, this is how the transfers compared against our players when playing high majors at/above .500:

1. Rhoden 14 PPG - averaged 34 minutes per game
2. Odukale 12.1 PPG - averaged 33 minutes per game
3. Cale 10.6 PPG - averaged 28 minutes per game
4. Dawes 9.8 PPG - averaged 30 minutes per game
5. Richmond 9.7 PPG - averaged 26 minutes per game
6. Davis 6.5 PPG - averaged 19 minutes per game

AS STATED - YOUR DISCOUNTING OUR TRANSFER TALENT DUE TO THEM PLAYING ON TEAMS LOWER IN THE ACC RANKINGS DOESN"T TRANSLATE WHEN PLAYING GOOD COMPETITION.
 
Thanks for doing all that work to prove my point.

Our top three scorers were Rhoden, Cale and Richmond, I didn't include Aiken as he only played 6 BE games.

Our top 3 scorers stats against Big East teams at/above .500:
- Rhoden 14 PPG
- Cale 10.6 PPG
- Richmond 9.7 PPG

According to your calculations, this is how the transfers compared against our players when playing high majors at/above .500:

1. Rhoden 14 PPG - averaged 34 minutes per game
2. Odukale 12.1 PPG - averaged 33 minutes per game
3. Cale 10.6 PPG - averaged 28 minutes per game
4. Dawes 9.8 PPG - averaged 30 minutes per game
5. Richmond 9.7 PPG - averaged 26 minutes per game
6. Davis 6.5 PPG - averaged 19 minutes per game

AS STATED - YOUR DISCOUNTING OUR TRANSFER TALENT DUE TO THEM PLAYING ON TEAMS LOWER IN THE ACC RANKINGS DOESN"T TRANSLATE WHEN PLAYING GOOD COMPETITION.
Based on this the players that left are better than the players coming in.
 
Based on this the players that left are better than the players coming in.
As a reminder, my responses are to your original comment. "Put another way, we will potentially start three players who were starters for bottom-half ACC teams a year ago. For those that aren't Seton Hall fans, it's easy to see how that wouldn't impress."

I'm pointing out that these transfers are good players regardless of whether you're a SHU fan or not. The fact that they played for "bottom-half ACC teams" doesn't affect their quality as players.
 
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