What are you even talking about?
And why are all your posts always war and peace..you take yourself so seriously
Sha’s Lack of Accountability
- Thread starter Wolf11642
- Start date
And why are all your posts always war and peace..you take yourself so seriously
How do you know that he would have had higher than average turnover? Based on what?
My counterpoint is the following:
For example, If he would target a guy like Middleton he would have to sit out one year, get the practice reps for a year in Sha’s system and then play with 3 years of eligibility remaining.
For the first two there would be no threat to leave because no player wants to sit a full year a second time.
The player at risk of leaving would be the 5th year grad eligible transfer. So maybe you do or don’t get that 3rd year.
We forget a player like Quincy McKnight, who we loved, had to sit a year, struggled at times in his first full year and became a much better BE player in his second season. Essentially his 3rd under Willard in real time.
Sha will NEVER have the window to develop a player in that manner EVER again.
Last edited:
Of course. Teams usually that bad in the OOC usually get ripped apart in the big east. That's why it's the first time ever because no 13 win team has probably had that bad of an OOC resume. The whole season matters not just what you did in the OOC. That's the point. Let's stop looking at the conference record because the selection process isn't about just conference schedules. It's never been and it probably never will be. The games in November matter and we talk about it every year how losing the 1st game in an MTE could hurt your resume playing 2 weaker teams. End of the day we were outside the top 50. You can hope to be in but it's not a snub to be left out when all of your ratings are outside that number.
Nobody is keeping players year to year. Guys who could be the 3rd best player or 3rd best paid player on a team will get offers from other teams to be the top paid. It's just the way it is. The saddest part in my opinion is it kills all rivalries. Look at the way guys have been moving around high school and AAU programs for years. Now it's happening in college and people want to cry about it.
Just because you can’t put together a comprehensive thought doesn’t mean you need to take a shot at every post I make because it is composed of more than a sentence or two.
Get a new punchline.
“why are your posts so long?”
Yep you got me!!!! Now your previous point carries much more merit.
Keyboard bullies don’t scare me.
Last edited:
Sha put the ball in Dylan’s hands. Everyone on this board knows Dylan can’t create anything in that role and he has a poor handle. Bingo, no shot, game over. A well paid coach ought to be able to figure that out regardless of NIL funds.
So let me see if we are on the same page.
1. We can’t keep our roster together for more than a year. New standard.
2. We need to get the left over scraps of the portal because we lack the $$$. Not a new standard, but feels like we are further behind than the old system.
3. If we do coach them up, the season is most likely over because we struggled to figure it out in the OOC.
4. If we do develop some players or find diamonds in the rough, too bad they will go to the highest bidder next year.
Remind me again why I should be excited about rooting for my beloved Pirates in this broken system we are pretending to call CBB.
Besides coming up with a S**t ton of money I would love to year what the blue print for success is going forward.
And for those who believe it’s a roster of Dre Davis and Isaiah Coleman with nothing else around them, you are just in denial.
To me this is more than a Sha problem, this is a Seton Hall problem. Heck it’s a college sports problem.
Again what are you talking about
I’m saying he would have lost plenty in the old world too because kids get tired of him and he burns them out..
Like it’s been said to me by college coach..he is a hero with the parents and a zero with the kids
I agree. But you better excite the rich people in some way, shape, or form. Hypothetical, Leftcoastpirates put in $100K into the program this year. why would you put in the same again next year? We could accomplish similar if you only put in 1% of that. For you to put 100K again you would need to know we have 15 other people putting in the same as you.
The Sha problem was not taking care of business in the OOC this year. How many games were competitive that shouldn't have been? 3 losses we shouldn't have had. It's one thing to lose to Creighton, UConn and Marquette, but not Hofstra, Fordham and Monmouth. The body language isn't good for both coach and players. At the same time, the players aren't concerned about the coach and the coach shouldn't be so concerned about the player. There may be 2 methodologies for improving a player, one for a players long term success and another for quick fixes. Do what's best to win today and let them figure the long term stuff out on their own. For example Richmond needed to work on his 3. Well if you don't see the 3 getting better in his time here, don't waste a ton of time on it. Figure out what where he can expand his game in the 6 months he's here and let him worry about the rest on his own with his next coach.
My father worked in MLB scouting and front offices for 25+ years. The new guys do roster on future earning potentials..it’s a way the analytics world self scouts
What was the estimated NIL value of the two rosters that Sha had his first two years? And if they were in current nil dollars and we didn’t make a tournament what would people say
This is why inside baseball the Rays “geniuses” are scoffed at behind the scenes and Stearns is considered the ultimate whiz kid
no didn't you hear, sha ran off these guys because they don't like him!! thats why!
We agree on many points.
The NIL contributions from the average donor or even the $100k donor isn’t going to be sustainable, because no one wants to pay for sub par results, especially if they see their $$ doesn’t go as far as they would like.
Most people on this board have a keen eye for basketball talent. We all agree there is limited talent on this roster. It lacks basic fundamentals of the game and the BBIQ is also very low.
What I don’t agree with is the following. And for the record I am just as embarrassed for the Fordham, Hofstra, and Monmouth loses. But I don’t believe winning those games by 1, 5, or 20 points would change my perspective on how poor the product assembled on the court is.
Yes, I would be delusional (because all fans want to be) that 8-3 still allows me to turn it around. But the Ok St, Vandy, RU games, now combined with VU and GU, tells me all I need to know.
We are offensively one of the worst major conference teams in the country and you can’t win many games no matter how good your defensive effort is.
ncaa sports seem to be horrible investments. imagine donating $500k for this. imagine donating $500k+ for anything but great success.
its basically going to be a rich person hobby.
Sha and SHU's biggest problem is the NIL, or in their case, the lack thereof. Sha's strategy for applying his meagre NIL budget was to recruit highly ranked recruits who did not live up their rankings at the college level in hopes that he could coach them up to their potential. This strategy was his hope to compete in the Big East with a very subpar NIL. Sha's strategy failed and he deserves fair critiscism for this failure. However, to deny that the NIL is a major contributing factor in this year's fiasco is just plain ignoring the reality of the situation.
This is why people don’t respect you anit-Sha garbage.
Kadary Richmond and Dre Davis greatly improved their NIL future earning potential specifically because of their development under Sha.
Kadary was arguably the #1 portal player this past offseason.
What would have been his portal ranking if he had left after Willard went to Maryland, going into his junior season?
Sha brought in the Davis brothers. What future earning value did Dre have prior to coming to Seton Hall? I wonder how much his 7 ppg and 20% 3-pt shooting truly commanded on the open market. Do you think it was in the neighborhood of $750-900k.
It changes your hope that maybe a few more dollars and we're right there. At this point from a basketball perspective you're already looking forward to next year and the wallet isn't as opened.
For a decade on this board Jordan Theodore was a Gonzo guy not a Willard guy. Now all of a sudden Kadary is a Sha guy. Can't have it both ways.
What anti-sha? I’ve posted the same exact stuff from BEFORE we officially hired him and to be honest I’ve been mostly correct thanks
I don't care which way people want to classify guys, but pick one way and stick with it. Theodore was way better under Willard than Gonzo that's for sure.
Good luck with that. You have posters on this board would’ve been talking about a run in the big east tournament for a chance to dance with a win last night
Who cares if a player is "Sha guy" or a "Willard guy''? That's not the point. The point is that Kadary was not living up to his potential until Sha coached him up and transformed him into the top portal transfer target.
No one is denying its a critical factor.....everyone upset is upset because its used to keep criticism away from the coach.
NIL sucks, it puts Seton Hall at a disadvantage. Therefore, everything else needs to run smooth. The coach needs to be able to coach up the players; he needs to be able to increase NIL, he needs to be able to draw up a play with 8 seconds left to get a shot off, and he should be able to show measurable improvement throughout the year, or at least show us that he can pick talent well.
Unfortunately, our coach has not shown us anything like that whatsoever this year and people are fed up. And then they are looking at previous years and realizing that we have been sold on this guy running our program when the results are rather poor and he has brought the program to its lowest point in 20 years.
People knew NIL was coming, and they made a collective effort and said, "Shaheen Holloway is the guy to get us through NIL," and he has done about as terrible a job as you could.
LMAO I agree but it was important to people for a decade now it's not. Ok. And the biggest impact on Kadary was not some new skillset he developed under Sha it was in how much better shape he got himself into and able to play more minutes. Like Powell a gigantic part of Kadary's improvement came with the benefits of getting his body in shape. Credit to the strength and condition coaches. His size, his handle and his ability to post smaller guys up was always there. His biggest weakness was always his 3 point shooting and he shot 33% from 3 during his time here under Sha 33 for 99 from deep basically the same 34.5% he shot under Willard.
Last edited:
I'm not a a point where I'll say "never". I understand the "NIL" issue and disadvantages, actual or perceived (or some combination of both). I also think that there will be kids who will want to stay for reasons beyond purely $. It is the HC's job to sell those kids on why staying benefits them on various levels.
Willard left us pretty bare. Did u see his last recruiting class. He mailed it in. If not for NIL wed still have dre and kadary. They left because of NIL, period. 1st years never count against any coach. The school needs to adjust tp the new landacape. If we cant afford most talent this is what we are left with. Did he whiff on some players, yes. Does dual deserve what hes paid, no. School needs to go back to the drawimg board. If we dont get a 3 mil NIL budget then we are finiahed. Even that may not be enough moving forward. Dont u think shaheen tried to get better options? Most of these guys were not his 1st option at each position. Get ready fpr coleman to ask for high 6 figures in a few months. Will that be shas fault when he leaves forthe $?
What word are u living in? When in your life did u turn down hundreds of thousands of life changing dollars to be loyal to your job?
He had to look for diamonds in the rough because we couldnt afford better talent
LOL his last recruiting year was no different than the previous few classes. Class of 2018 was Nelson and Rhoden. Class of 2019 was Tyrese Samuel. Class of 2020 was Long and Stevens. He was winning in the transfer portal not high school players. Did he mail it in back in 2018 too? Or did he keep winning despite mailing it in.
I had various points in my career where I turned down a short term gain of 5 figures and even possibly low six figures because in the long run I thought it was best for my career development and financial situation down-the-road. At that point in my life, I was certainly "well off" by most standards but far, far from rich (and no, I don't come from money either).
I liked my present circumstances, and thought it was a better move for my future financial earnings and career development to stay at my current employer, betting it would position me to make more money down the line.
And it did.
Not everyone thinks this way, but I think there are folks who look at potential career earnings that come with development and being in the right situation rather than simply grabbing the most $ in front of you, especially when you account for taxes and such.
I don't come from a background where my family was struggling, so there's that.
Dual and Middleton are not "diamonds in the rough". I'd argue Yalden isn't even a "diamond in the rough". I'm not sure Manny's profile, coming from Louisville, is a diamond in the rough. I don't think Felton or Godswill based on HS/prep rankings are "diamonds in the rough". I don't even think some of the other transfers were "diamonds in the rough".
Ro Gill was a diamond in the rough.
Your career will span decades. Most of these players have a career of 4-6 years. They are not making it up later on. Richmond and Davis are possibly fringe NBA players and even for them it would be better to take the short term money. The players will do exactly what you did; they will act in their best interest. More times than not, taking the money is in their best interest.
Players have right to go for more money. I don’t blame them if it is in best interests. I blame system for this chaos. Fans have right to not contribute, not attend games or follow college athletics as much due the new environment. I know that my interest has gone down significantly in past few years. Hate the transfer portal rules and not having same players for more than a year or two. Sha has not done good job coaching this year and situation with NIL will not help next year. Slim chance our best player returns. Probably 8 or more new players yet again on limited dollars Seton Hall has compared to other schools.
Last edited:
I hear you, and I don't stand in their shoes or understand their individual situations. All are different. It's an individualized choice and scenario. I just don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that some will not chase the absolute highest dollar. Some will view their choice as a career investment -- even if that career is limited to 4-6 years, you can perhaps set yourself up better professionally, whether that is domestic or overseas, to earn more throughout that period if you choose somewhere for somewhat less $$ that has other attractive aspects.
There are rumors and swirlings around about which schools/collectives are “late” terms change…promises maybe not kept
That would have a big impact as well
It helps to pay attention before stating absolutes like "ever". Several times this year in post-game comments he has said "that's on me" and "I've got to do a better job."
Yes, but my guess is he had one of the most lucrative.
I know it is life changing money for most all these kids.
I’m just saying that I think the HC and situation play a role in player retention, at least for some kids. I’m sure Duke didn’t get out-NIL’ed for Jeremy Roach even with Baylor no doubt having resources. I think the ability to get minutes at the PG slot coupled with a coach who has recently developed a number of professional guards played a role in that too.
Similar threads
