Yes let’s throw more money at health. Whatever you throw at health the lobbyists will match to make sure kids are eating chips and chocolate bars more than celery and carrots.
No I very clearly assessed both those issues and if you can’t see that then that not my problem.
Ryan did you not see last Wednesday a decorated NYPD officer was shot and killed sitting in her squad car? Shot for no reason at all and she is the mother of 3 and now leaves those kids behind forever without a mother?
Did you not see that a man in an unprovoked attack stabbed an NYPD officer in the neck a few days ago and that officer is in ICU? Did you not see that an NYPD officer was hit and run by a looters car and is in critical condition? Please understand that police are currently under attack all over our country for doing their jobs right now trying to protect the protestors and businesses and keep cities safe. Policing is a very hard and dangerous job and there still needs to be reforms I agree. But the police have been making significant strides and improvements. See below.
Here are some stats noted in the article that started this post:
The police fatally shot nine unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites in 2019, according to a Washington Post database, down from 38 and 32, respectively, in 2015. The Post defines “unarmed” broadly to include such cases as a suspect in Newark, N.J., who had a loaded handgun in his car during a police chase. In 2018 there were 7,407 black homicide victims. Assuming a comparable number of victims last year, those nine unarmed black victims of police shootings represent 0.1% of all African-Americans killed in 2019. By contrast, a police officer is 18½ times more likely to be killed by a black male than an unarmed black male is to be killed by a police officer.
On Memorial Day weekend in Chicago alone, 10 African-Americans were killed in drive-by shootings. Such routine violence has continued—a 72-year-old Chicago man shot in the face on May 29 by a gunman who fired about a dozen shots into a residence; two 19-year-old women on the South Side shot to death as they sat in a parked car a few hours earlier; a 16-year-old boy fatally stabbed with his own knife that same day. This past weekend, 80 Chicagoans were shot in drive-by shootings, 21 fatally, the victims overwhelmingly black. Police shootings are not the reason that blacks die of homicide at eight times the rate of whites and Hispanics combined; criminal violence is.
The latest in a series of studies undercutting the claim of systemic police bias was published in August 2019 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The researchers found that the more frequently officers encounter violent suspects from any given racial group, the greater the chance that a member of that group will be fatally shot by a police officer. There is “no significant evidence of antiblack disparity in the likelihood of being fatally shot by police,” they concluded.
A 2015 Justice Department analysis of the Philadelphia Police Department found that white police officers were less likely than black or Hispanic officers to shoot unarmed black suspects. Research by Harvard economist Roland G. Fryer Jr. also found no evidence of racial discrimination in shootings. Any evidence to the contrary fails to take into account crime rates and civilian behavior before and during interactions with police.
The false narrative of systemic police bias resulted in targeted killings of officers during the Obama presidency. The pattern may be repeating itself. Officers are being assaulted and shot at while they try to arrest gun suspects or respond to the growing riots. Police precincts and courthouses have been destroyed with impunity, which will encourage more civilization-destroying violence. If the Ferguson effect of officers backing off law enforcement in minority neighborhoods is reborn as the Minneapolis effect, the thousands of law-abiding African-Americans who depend on the police for basic safety will once again be the victims.
The Minneapolis officers who arrested George Floyd must be held accountable for their excessive use of force and callous indifference to his distress. Police training needs to double down on de-escalation tactics. But Floyd’s death should not undermine the legitimacy of American law enforcement, without which we will continue on a path toward chaos.
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
Guest
Thank you 112 for posting this. I wish the news networks would talk about these. How about a roundtable discussion with all the major news organizations where facts are used to support stances. I think this could go a long way to quell the unrest. The news organizations are inviting the unrest and violence in my opinion.
Excellent post. Facts matter but unfortunately there are too many groups/individuals that would prefer to create a narrative to divide for greed or power (MSM, politicians, etc.). Two weeks later and the most high profile solution is to defund police forces.
As a side note, our industry trade group typically has held one of our quarterly meetings in Minneapolis each year because it's central for most members, a hub for Delta/accessible, has been a good destination for those wanting to extend their stay, etc. Well, we made a decision this week to take it off the list.
Is policing hard? Yes it is you said it yourself.
Can you police with out killing black, brown, white people? Yes you can
Compare the numbers here vs other countries and the difference is staggering. 31 per 10m fatally shot by police in US vs 1/10m in Germany, <1/10m in UK, 6/10m in Sweden.
Based on a a study by the American Journal of Health and use of force numbers per 100,000 arrest there are 273 use of force incidents against blacks and 76 against whites.
We have 5 times as many people incarcerated per 100,000 compared to other G7 countries
655 in US; 140 UK; 114 Canada; 100 France; 98 Italy; 75 Germany; 41 Japan
We can go back and forth all day long with statistics supporting both sides and what not. But at the end of the day what it comes down to is simple right and wrong. No one should be killed by police except for extreme circumstances. Shooting people. Particularly people of color has become what it seems is the first response rather that last resort. But when those wrongs are not met with swift reaction by those in power but rather a defense of the actions it’s clear that there’s no plan to make changes to a broken system
Can you police with out killing black, brown, white people? Yes you can
Compare the numbers here vs other countries and the difference is staggering. 31 per 10m fatally shot by police in US vs 1/10m in Germany, <1/10m in UK, 6/10m in Sweden.
Based on a a study by the American Journal of Health and use of force numbers per 100,000 arrest there are 273 use of force incidents against blacks and 76 against whites.
We have 5 times as many people incarcerated per 100,000 compared to other G7 countries
655 in US; 140 UK; 114 Canada; 100 France; 98 Italy; 75 Germany; 41 Japan
We can go back and forth all day long with statistics supporting both sides and what not. But at the end of the day what it comes down to is simple right and wrong. No one should be killed by police except for extreme circumstances. Shooting people. Particularly people of color has become what it seems is the first response rather that last resort. But when those wrongs are not met with swift reaction by those in power but rather a defense of the actions it’s clear that there’s no plan to make changes to a broken system
That is not what I say at all. But there are really good cops out there if you are implying there are not with your snarky comment ('you guys" etc). That is not helping Ryan. This is clearly a problem but we also need clear heads to address it and facts. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water and keep the good reforms that have worked and realize where we need more.
I'll give you an example. In Randolph NJ we just found out that Black History month was taught in grade school but they were doing nothing at the HS level of note? WTF I said? That is where kids really begin to become adults and form opinions and why is there not more education at that level and more importantly discussion? Major problem IMO and something that will now be addressed but why it wasn't in there I will never know and it was wrong.
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anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
Guest
The police are going to use force against people commiting violent offenses. When 13% of the population is commiting 60% of those crimes, isn't it reasonable to assume the police are going to have to use force against those individuals? We can't live in a society where people are free to commit violent crimes with no repercussions, but that's what it sounds like you're advocating based on the color of someomes skin. Everyone has condemned the George Floyd incident, but that's a rare exception.
I agree that absolutely there are good cops out there doing the job the right way. But when they do nothing to identify the ones doing it the wrong way then they become culpable. Also when they try to do the right thing and identify and call out wrong actions and are then harassed by their peers it creates a systems that disincentivizes people to do the right. And no it wasn’t meant as a snarky comment it’s the same excuse that people on the other side make.
To be clear I know of no one saying that reforms are not necessary and significant ones at that. But to not recognize that some police departments have made successful reforms and some of those reforms are working is also a huge mistake. We all need to have reasonable conversations to see if we can make lasting changes. And as an example, defunding police departments is not the one we should be talking about.
Beyond this there is racism in other parts of our culture and education and other solutions need to be considered (like what I mentioned about HS education above). That is a huge part of this and many are only focusing on police right now which is only part of the problem. How we treat others and talk to our kids is where it all really starts and we all need to improve.
Yup. A few bad apples in every line of work. Then you look at the rioters and looters and it's a heck of a lot more than a few bad apples.
I pretty much agree with almost everything you've wrote on here over the past few days. I just want someone on either side to tell me what police reform is? I heard on the news last night, cops shouldn't be allowed to bring a gun to a domestic violence call. Are you kidding me? The cop must walk in unarmed and for all he knows the abuser could have a gun on him. Is that the kind of reform we're talking about? So when I hear police reform it's a nice catch phrase that has no specific meaning so it can get tossed around without consequences. All politicians learned a valuable lesson from Jacob Frey yesterday. Don't put yourself in a position where you have answer anything specific about police reform, you'll get destroyed. 95% or higher don't want to abolish police. All politicians know that, but the loudest 1% seem to want that done. If you answer them directly and honestly, they'll abuse you on camera.
Like any profession they have to do a good job of cleaning out the bad apples. Lawyers, doctors, accountants can all lose their license. Sanitation can come in and shut down a restaurant. Cops need to be held accountable similar to these other professions. At the same time we have to remember cops make decisions that could be life or death for themselves.
So Americans commit more crimes if we have 5 times as many incarcerated. Simple solution. Don't commit a crime if you don't want to go to jail.
As to the police violence numbers, there is a big difference. American citizens are allowed to carry guns in some places, which means the police have to operate as if they are under threat when they make an arrest. If things get out of control, I can easily see how it ends up in shots being fired. It's easier to arrest someone in the UK when you know they won't be packing.
+1. This continues to be such a circular discussion when you ask about solutions. Too bad that you can't solve the problem with a cute meme or re-tweet.
In general, the debate here has been positive and respectful, but we keep asking for solutions and nothing substantive has been proposed. It's tough to sustain a cause when you can't articulate what you want or how to get there.
Here is an NPR article on Federal sources of funding for police. I am not a fan personally of militarizing the police and agreed completely with General Mattis stance vs.Trump last week. I was always worried when Mattis and Kelly left the administration (adults left the room) and am personally upset about how Trump has mishandled this crisis. We really need a President who will try and unify the country right now and he has done anything but that.
Back to this article. It is interesting and seems to me that more measurement is needed to see what is effective from a community perspective. That may help the discussion to learn more about potential solutions.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/09/872387351/how-federal-dollars-fund-local-police
Back to this article. It is interesting and seems to me that more measurement is needed to see what is effective from a community perspective. That may help the discussion to learn more about potential solutions.
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/09/872387351/how-federal-dollars-fund-local-police
It’s pretty we known fact that the majority of people in prison are there for non violent offense or people awaiting trial cause they can afford bail. The entire system is rigged.
I agree that we shouldn’t be militarizing the police. The optics of the current situation are especially bad because now there are cameras everywhere catching everything that happens.
Personally I think all cops should wear body cameras, I don’t think that they should be able to turn off those body cameras.
I think there has been some good discussion here. I didn’t want to offend anyone. I know I may have come off hostile initially. Statistics are great but with enough data you can pretty spin it to support any argument.
When I hear defund the police to me I don’t imagine getting rid of the police in general. It’s about demilitarizing, investing in the community, deescalation practices, that what the Camden article I posted was about. Lets take a portion of the multi hundred million dollar police budget and invest it in the community, in the education system provide resources and activities for youth. In a few years we’re gonna look at Minneapolis and say this was either really good for the city or really bad, but for Camden it seems to have worked very well. Only time will tell.
Agree on demilitarizing the police. They do need to get back to the protect and serve motto as well. They work for the people, not the other way around.
Another good article on Camden and their process/experience.
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/...didnt-really-defund-the-police-105251107.html
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/...didnt-really-defund-the-police-105251107.html
If you don't think there are people attached to this "Defund the Police" initiative that want police departments abolished, you're mistaken.
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ep4xy7/what-does-defund-and-abolish-the-police-mean
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ep4xy7/what-does-defund-and-abolish-the-police-mean
"F the cops! Defund the police"
*Gets attacked by loon wielding homemade weaponry*
"CALL THE COPS!!!"
