As if the Hall debacle wasn't enough, The G Men made it weekend of depression. I am a 60 year plus fan and the last decade makes the awful late 60's and 70's look appealing. At least those teams scored points (and gave them up in boatloads). These Giant teams are the worst combination - bad and boring. What was once appt viewing is now an afterthought. Played pickleball in the am but came home and turned on the telly to watch the inevitable. Jones is awful. Question if Daboll is the guy. Joe S has whiffed on too many draft picks. Not a lot to get excited about. Although I hate anything related to tanking, it might be the year to do so. Mara is out of touch. We're a laughing stock. The season can't end soon enough. I feel better after the rant.
The Giants - New Low. Approaching Howard Beale Status
- Thread starter CT Pirate
- Start date
It’s time to clean house. The GM has been bad. This team lacks way too much talent in year 3 of his regime. I think Daboll is a decent (or even good coach) but there’s just a foul smell now. If they are rebuilding with a new QB they need to start fresh. Plus, if you stick with him and it doesn’t work out you’re in the same situation in 3 years, hiring a new coach and saddling him with a QB that’s not his own.
Jones is bad, no doubt, but the front office and coaching staff have spent way too much time using that as a crutch for their failures.
Jones is bad, no doubt, but the front office and coaching staff have spent way too much time using that as a crutch for their failures.
Feel your pain, team needs QB change after the break and it needs to be Devito. Had a good friend tell me Jones was a mistake years ago and I did not believe it. He knew one of DJ’s coaches from college who said he makes bad decisions. Guy has lost all his confidence. Run the dam ball early in the games and take our chances with Devito. Still believe in our coach but we need a fiery leader with everything to prove.
There are more than the Jets and Giants as bad teams in the NFL . You can add the Panthers , Jags, Cowboys, Saints , Raiders, Miami , Titans and Browns to the list and too many poor drafts filling the key QB position is at the heart of so many struggling teams poor play.l
The GM has not been bad. This years draft class has received high praise from around the league. The trade and then signing for Brian Burns has been terrific as he’s a stud.
Daboll knows he’s extremely limited with Jones. That’s the major issue at this point. In years past they had a roster with little talent. The giants are solid everywhere but CB and TE and maybe OL depth but there’s plenty of talent
I was a big defender of Daniel Jones but he has sadly regressed since winning the playoff game. It was a gamble at the time but as of now he is a complete shell that doesn’t have the ability to win. He’ll be gone next year and then we’ll see how it goes.
As a Jets fan, you are in you’re infancy of depressing and hard to watch games.
Give it another decade or two…or three…or four…or five…
The GM is bad. One decent (not great) draft class in three years. Not much better than Gettleman at this point and that’s a low bar. Neal and Banks both possible first round busts and #5 is questionable as well. Nabers is clearly a stud. Fact is we’ve been in QB he’ll and he hasn’t fixed it along with bein weak at CB and TE and the O line is finally a little better but middling at best. Our best player is Dex and Getty got him. Paying DJ was a huge error
You act like other teams don’t miss on draft picks or have weak positions on the field?
People like you that expect perfect moves year after year are crazy. Daniel Jones regressed, that’s the biggest issue with the team and they’ll fix it this spring
Buy there is good news too. I finished replacing some wood on my deck and raked half my front yard.
The Giants’ problem is very clear. They get terrible QB play. League-average QB plan and they’re likely 5-5. Far too many mistakes and simply an inability for the player to make the critical plays that determine wins and losses in this day and age. Go down this list this year: Yesterday, Steelers, Bengals, Cowboys, I mean, sometimes it is about 1 player at 1 position when it’s so critical.
You watch the games and it’s overwhelming. Even the numbers are overwhelming now. Look at any of them. How about the fact they’re 3-13 with him the past two seasons, 5-6 without him, LOL. They’re not a great roster yet – need to keep building in secondary and interior DL – but they should be a .500 team.
You watch the games and it’s overwhelming. Even the numbers are overwhelming now. Look at any of them. How about the fact they’re 3-13 with him the past two seasons, 5-6 without him, LOL. They’re not a great roster yet – need to keep building in secondary and interior DL – but they should be a .500 team.
The GM had a nice draft class this season, found our WR, TE, and a gem Running Back and the 2 secondary guys Nubin and Phillips.... He did send his son to Don Bosco Prep (as a Bergen Catholic alum) that was a mistake haha, but remember the GM and Coach Dab's didn't pick Jones so give them their QB and then we can see what happens..... I am a bit upset as in 2022 I thought Jones came out and did so well, I dont know what happened but it happened......
GM has been bad, as were his two predecessors . This years draft was decent (jury is still out but trending up ) but the previous two were horrible.
Whiffed on Neal & Thibs, who was supposed to be Brian Burns but isn't. In reality, they had to let Saquon go in order to sign Burns because Thibs isn't the answer.
Whiffed on Neal & Thibs, who was supposed to be Brian Burns but isn't. In reality, they had to let Saquon go in order to sign Burns because Thibs isn't the answer.
Thibs is pretty good when he plays, no hes not a star. But he’s been a every game starter since day 1.
Yes, Saquan is having a great season. But how much better would the Giants be if he was doing that for them? Tyrone Tracy has been very good as a starter the last few weeks. There’s not a huge change in production. Do the giants have 1 more win with Saquan to be 3-7?
Paying DJ $40M a year was the decision that should get these guys fired. He has had how many prove it years now? Guys in his 6th season and many league experts continue to be exasperated by the Giants continuing to play him. We've been in QB hell for way too long. Getting an experienced QB would have been a better move if they couldn't draft their guy, but they screwed the pooch. The QB class coming out isn't even close to being as talented as the last one. Penix is better than the QBs coming out this year and he was the 4th QB taken in the draft at #8.
Schoen better pull a rabbit out of the hat if he wants to keep his job. One good draft class out of 3. Facts.
I feel for Daboll but he's getting desperate with his play calling too. That 3rd and 1 and he calls a lateral back to the QB instead of keeping the drive going last week when Tracy was running well at the time. He's lost his mojo and his play calling is no better than Kafka's. The guy executing the plays is terrible. Tommy Cutlets would be better which isn't saying much.
Top to bottom is the talent better on the team than when they inherited it? Can that talent beat anyone in our division? Maybe the Cowboys by a point now that Dak is hurt. We were last place in the division three years ago and will be again. That is the measure that Mara and Tisch should judge them on.
They will probably start another QB and we win a few more games down the stretch pushing us lower in the draft order. Or they will keep playing Jones, he will get hurt and his injury clause will cost us millions in the future salary cap. They've boxed themselves in here. The right move is to sit Jones and keep future cap money. What a mess!
The GM and Coach did not pick Jones in the draft but did choose to extend him after the playoff win, which to me is almost the same thing. They had the option of using the franchise tag and making 2023 a prove-it year but instead chose to give Jones the extension and used the tag on Barkley who left anyway the following year.
Nonetheless, I don't put it all on the coach and GM. I really think that the ownership has done a terrible job overall running this franchise. I think it's clear by now that the Giants organization and how it is run is the problem more than any one coach, GM or player. The organization has been on a downward trajectory for well over a decade, which I think can be traced back to the building of the new stadium, where they displaced their season-ticket holders and downgraded their homefield advantage and fan experience considerably. Everything that was once great and admirable about the Giants is completely gone.
I used to think that if they evolved and picked a competent GM and coach who knew how to build a winning team in the modern NFL, then that would fix their issues. I don't believe that anymore. I have no confidence that even if they replace Schoen and Daboll that they will find success in the near future.
Awesome post, perfectly stated and I could not agree more. I still think Daboll and Schoen have not gotten it done but Mara and Tisch are ultimately responsible. I thought we had the George Young moment when Schoen took over but maybe not. Can the owners get out of the way?
Selling my season tickets was the best thing I ever did when they went to the new crappy stadium and they keep reinforcing that decision.
The worst part about the Giants is that their offense is so dysfunctional they are painful to watch. Adding to the pain are the mental mistakes & penalties at the worst possible time in just about every game. That's on the coach who is supposed to be an offensive genius.
George Young & Ernie Acorsi didn't seem to have a hard time working for the organization. Has the environment changed or did they just pick the wrong GM's ever since Ernie retired?
George Young & Ernie Acorsi didn't seem to have a hard time working for the organization. Has the environment changed or did they just pick the wrong GM's ever since Ernie retired?
Pauly Walnuts and I are going up to Nyack this weekend. Doing a seance and gonna try to reach the spirit of George Young to bring him back.
Here’s the list of other feee agent QB’s the same year DJ signed his contract. Go ahead and tell me what Schoen was supposed to do? It is a horrendous list. I’m sure you’ll point to the obvious, which clearly wasn’t so obvious in that time.. so no I don’t blame Schoen for signing DJ to essentially a 2 year deal
2023 NFL Free Agents: Quarterbacks – WalterFootball
walterfootball.com
lol. Most of the guys on that list up to 13 are way better than DJ. Thanks for reinforcing my point. You can add Russell Wilson and Justin Fields to the list of guys they could have afforded too. They haven't even developed a QB in waiting. This year's draft was good - too early to tell if it's very good. First two years may end up being a huge bust. "1 out of 3 ain't bad" is not a Meatloaf song title and rightfully so.Here’s the list of other feee agent QB’s the same year DJ signed his contract. Go ahead and tell me what Schoen was supposed to do? It is a horrendous list. I’m sure you’ll point to the obvious, which clearly wasn’t so obvious in that time.. so no I don’t blame Schoen for signing DJ to essentially a 2 year deal
2023 NFL Free Agents: Quarterbacks – WalterFootball
When they signed DJ to a two-year contract so many former GMs and league guys flipped out at the money they gave him and the length of the contract. The logical thing was give him one prove it year and franchise him. This year we would not have Nabers but might have our QB of the future if they did that.
Most of the guys are better? You lost all credibility. Only Baker Mayfield was a legitimate option and nobody was high on him. Geno Smith wasn’t coming back and Sam Darnold would’ve never signed up for NY again. The rest are bums.
Don’t be ridiculous just because you want to prove a point.
Don’t be ridiculous just because you want to prove a point.
I think the QB is far and away the biggest problem. A league average QB would make the team look much better. They’d be at least .500 just there. They’re not devoid of talent.
But I am wondering about the coaching:
How many games where kicker killed them? Repeatedly. The rush defense. The secondary never plays a ball, 0 INT in 10 games. Special teams blunders like the punt return in Pittsburgh. The dropped passes. Not having a LT backup plan. Etc.
But I am wondering about the coaching:
How many games where kicker killed them? Repeatedly. The rush defense. The secondary never plays a ball, 0 INT in 10 games. Special teams blunders like the punt return in Pittsburgh. The dropped passes. Not having a LT backup plan. Etc.
I kind of feel the same way but if that is the case, why was the same QB & coach able to get them to the playoffs & win a game just two years ago. Is it possible they've both regressed or is their something else going on. Going into the season it was reported on numerous outlets that Giants talent was rated near or at the bottom of the NFL. Yet Schoen said yesterday in his news conference that he was pleased with the roster & wouldn't have done anything different.
Kicker situation and back up QB situation was completely bundled by Schoen
and Daboll.
That old adage “ you are what your record says you are “ certainly applies to this version of the Giants. Poor draft decisions , the failure to accumulate draft capital and staying tied to Jones when he clearly was not the answer has put the Giants on the road to being a regular post season observer not a post season participant.
The argument to keep these guys just keeps getting weaker IMO based on their actual results.
We stink and didn't do anything to move a few players to create draft capital. We keep playing Daniel Jones because "he gives us the best option to win" - translation we think our backups are really bad if DJ gives us the best option to win.
The coaching mistakes that happen over and over again. What am I missing? Is it all on the QB or the folks that put him there? They improved the O line but we lose one player and now the line regresses considerably.
In Schoen's first year he talked about the fact that the good teams had solid bench players and that made a huge difference in how they fared during the season. I agree with his comments, but we still don't have good starters at many positions let alone solid bench players. And some of his top draft picks aren't working out. So again what am I missing? Why should we keep doing the same thing with Schoen and Daboll who I thought would work out.
I hope they are talking to Vrabel and others that are out there to see what they would do to fix this. Maybe choosing a proven head coach or someone that failed somewhere else (like Quinn and don't forget Belicheck failed in Cleveland first) would be a good place to start to compare them to what we currently have. The talent on the team today is not much better than when they took over. We are 2-8 folks. And we lost some of our top players in Saquon (which I understand) and McKinney. So why be patient when the direction looks so bleak? This is just sheer stupidity IMO. They failed in a lot of key areas - talent, coaching, player execution, progress in general. They inherited a last place team and we are still a last place team. Our offense was better under Joe Judge (16.3 pts per game vs the current 15.6) - think about that!
We stink and didn't do anything to move a few players to create draft capital. We keep playing Daniel Jones because "he gives us the best option to win" - translation we think our backups are really bad if DJ gives us the best option to win.
The coaching mistakes that happen over and over again. What am I missing? Is it all on the QB or the folks that put him there? They improved the O line but we lose one player and now the line regresses considerably.
In Schoen's first year he talked about the fact that the good teams had solid bench players and that made a huge difference in how they fared during the season. I agree with his comments, but we still don't have good starters at many positions let alone solid bench players. And some of his top draft picks aren't working out. So again what am I missing? Why should we keep doing the same thing with Schoen and Daboll who I thought would work out.
I hope they are talking to Vrabel and others that are out there to see what they would do to fix this. Maybe choosing a proven head coach or someone that failed somewhere else (like Quinn and don't forget Belicheck failed in Cleveland first) would be a good place to start to compare them to what we currently have. The talent on the team today is not much better than when they took over. We are 2-8 folks. And we lost some of our top players in Saquon (which I understand) and McKinney. So why be patient when the direction looks so bleak? This is just sheer stupidity IMO. They failed in a lot of key areas - talent, coaching, player execution, progress in general. They inherited a last place team and we are still a last place team. Our offense was better under Joe Judge (16.3 pts per game vs the current 15.6) - think about that!
Well you keep reinforcing my point. Schoen picked # 23 (one of your bums) to be the backup QB. The more you talk, the more you reinforce the point that Schoen is not getting it done.
Yeah because the rest of the league just signs top QB’s to be backups. Give me a break. What happened to your argument about DJ? I guess my point won as you had no response so you leaped to a non descript backup for some type of argument
My point is this was a huge mistake and there was no backup plan if DJ failed and I'm not the only one who said signing him to a big deal was a huge mistake. You keep saying Schoen is a good GM but you have nothing to back that up. He didn't fix the QB problem - he didn't fix the backup issue. The guy who has the ball in his hands is huge obviously and he's failed miserably in fixing that issue. He had one good draft out of three. I'm done arguing with you. Argue with these folks below:
Giants QB Daniel Jones's Contract Among Worst in NFL Today
The Giants' decision to pay Jones last offseason hasn't seen a return on investment.
Rich Eisen Claims Giants Have 'Buyers Remorse' Over Daniel Jones Contract
Eisen's latest bold claim comes after he expressed the opinion that the Giants should have paid running back Saquon Barkley ahead of Daniel Jones.
No back up plan: again who has a GOOD backup? They don’t exist. Who is Patrick Mahomes backup, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson? If a QB gets hurt or underperforms your team is 99% screwed . Expecting a GM to have a “good back up” makes you a foolish fan that doesn’t understand reality.My point is this was a huge mistake and there was no backup plan if DJ failed and I'm not the only one who said signing him to a big deal was a huge mistake. You keep saying Schoen is a good GM but you have nothing to back that up. He didn't fix the QB problem - he didn't fix the backup issue. The guy who has the ball in his hands is huge obviously and he's failed miserably in fixing that issue. He had one good draft out of three. I'm done arguing with you. Argue with these folks below:
Giants QB Daniel Jones's Contract Among Worst in NFL Today
The Giants' decision to pay Jones last offseason hasn't seen a return on investment.www.si.com
Rich Eisen Claims Giants Have 'Buyers Remorse' Over Daniel Jones Contract
Eisen's latest bold claim comes after he expressed the opinion that the Giants should have paid running back Saquon Barkley ahead of Daniel Jones.
As I pointed out there really wasn’t a better alternative when dj signed but you just want to hate the GM.
I don't hate him. I wish he did better and was excited when he was hired. His record is not good in 3 years. There are lots of better backups than what we have. I just believe in looking at actual/factual results which apparently you don't. It's OK.
We could have had a QB of the future by now but we don't. And this year's draft class (which everyone knew last year) is not very promising. Last year was the year to get it done or grab a more experienced QB. Hard to believe they didn't do that. Drew Lock has played in 6 NFL games and they seem hesitant to give him any playing time and he looked bad in pre-season the one game he played before he got hurt. I hope he shows out the next game he plays as it will happen. Go ahead and stick with Schoen - he's killing it so far...
Maybe it just really comes down to QB play now? With the roster churn and lack of practice time, the league is tremendously sloppy and the % of one-score games has never been higher. It’s all about situational football. The Giants made those plays in 2022. They did not in 2023 and this year.
The Giants rolled out an aged and diminished Eli for too long, then drafted a guy that they were stubborn on developing, unlike teams around the league who dumped bad QB’s fast. The NFL is entirely situational football now. I bet if we charted out QB play over this time frame the Giants would be near last. Bad QB play is a big factor in this sport
The Giants rolled out an aged and diminished Eli for too long, then drafted a guy that they were stubborn on developing, unlike teams around the league who dumped bad QB’s fast. The NFL is entirely situational football now. I bet if we charted out QB play over this time frame the Giants would be near last. Bad QB play is a big factor in this sport
Who? Joe Flacco, he’s 1-3. In fact, the only backup QB with more than 1 win is Malik Willis in GB with 2.. What a failure Schoen is!
Darnold
Russell Wilson who the Giants had in but told he could not compete for starting role.
Bo Nix was behind Stidham when year started.
Signed Locke when Jones was a huge question mark.
Schoen thought could keep Tyrod when they benched him last year for Devito. Tyrod moved on to the Jets quickly.
