The Red Hen
- Thread starter Pirata
- Start date
I don't agree with the owner but any private business entity should have the right to serve or not serve as they see fit. Same as the gay wedding cake thing. I don't agree with either owner but they have a right to do what they did. The government should not be involved.
If I asked Colin Kaepernick to leave my restaurant because of his views on policing, how do you really think the MSM would portray it? And be honest.
This is the first thing the press has jumped on but if you read about the cake situation you will see they are nowhere the same.
There is also a bunch of crap out there suggesting Sander's response Tweet in on the official Twitter account is an ethics violation. Unfounded, but the court of public opinion has convicted her.
I put good odds that we will see more of this and at some point it may get violent. At least this was handled calmly at the actual scene. The Nielsen scene could have easily escalated. All it takes is a pissed off third party to jump in on someones behalf.
I think it is bad form to do that as a business owner. I don’t agree with it. However, I also agree with Shu09 that it is akin to the cake decorator. Doesn’t make either of them right.
I think everyone knows the answer to this which, sadly, shows the bias in media these days. Same thing if a restaurant owner asked Josh Earnest (who held the same position in the Obama administration) to leave.
It wouldn't be right in either case in my opinion, but the right of the business owner should not be infringed. Let the free market decide.
At best, "akin". Cern, you are a lawyer. Without getting into a battle can you weigh in on the legal differences of the two situations. Not sure if you are familiar with the cake thing but in that case the gay couple were not denied the services and products being provided.
I agree with using "akin" but certainly not equal.
Unfounded? It was from the guy who worked in the government ethics office for 11 years and was in charge of in for 4. He also cited the rule which he believes she violated.
Can you explain why his views are unfounded?
It's only gonna get worse.
I guess we will ultimately have separate restaurants for political parties. Kinda reminds me of the "Whites Only" water fountains.
Maxine Waters being Maxine Waters:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/25/politics/maxine-waters-trump-officials/index.html
I guess we will ultimately have separate restaurants for political parties. Kinda reminds me of the "Whites Only" water fountains.
Maxine Waters being Maxine Waters:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/25/politics/maxine-waters-trump-officials/index.html
Shaub worked for Obama. Are we surprised he opined against Sanders?
It is unfounded because she was officially replying to the reports of the incident. She was asked to leave the restaurant because of her official position.
So let's just see how far these accusations go. My vote: Nowhere in any official manner. However, the MSM will use them for all they are worth.
The lopsided coverage of this is ridiculous.
Walter ShaubVerified account@waltshaub
Walter Shaub Retweeted Sarah Sanders
Sarah, I know you don’t care even a tiny little bit about the ethics rules, but using your official account for this is a clear violation of 5 CFR 2635.702(a). It’s the same as if an ATF agent pulled out his badge when a restaurant tried to throw him/her out.
Sarah SandersVerified account@PressSec
Last night I was told by the owner of Red Hen in Lexington, VA to leave because I work for @POTUS and I politely left. Her actions say far more about her than about me. I always do my best to treat people, including those I disagree with, respectfully and will continue to do so
12:39 PM - 23 Jun 2018
Walter Shaub Retweeted Sarah Sanders
Sarah, I know you don’t care even a tiny little bit about the ethics rules, but using your official account for this is a clear violation of 5 CFR 2635.702(a). It’s the same as if an ATF agent pulled out his badge when a restaurant tried to throw him/her out.
Sarah SandersVerified account@PressSec
Last night I was told by the owner of Red Hen in Lexington, VA to leave because I work for @POTUS and I politely left. Her actions say far more about her than about me. I always do my best to treat people, including those I disagree with, respectfully and will continue to do so
12:39 PM - 23 Jun 2018
Either there is a violation under 5 CFR 2635.702(a) or there isn't. Personally I have no idea.
If this is, as is inferred, "a clear violation" I wonder if there will be a zero tolerance standard applied
If this is, as is inferred, "a clear violation" I wonder if there will be a zero tolerance standard applied
She only tweeted this after she was asked by the press about what happened. She didn't do it after being kicked out by the owner; she didn't do it after one of the Blue Hen staff posted the incident on their FB wall...she only responded after the MSM press asked her about it.
He started in the Office of Government Ethics in 2006. Please don't suggest anyone who has ever worked under a president is biased against the other party.
I guess the question is ultimately if she should have posted that under her official government account or her personal twitter account.
The rule is there to prevent using your position to coerce the public.
Sarah could have used her personal twitter to respond (163,000 followers) or her official government account to respond (3,060,000 followers)
Did she make the right decision to user her government account?
It makes for interesting internet discussion, but Shaub acknowledged this would not be a fireable offense so none of this really matters.
True. I hope she doesn't have trouble buying a cake celebrating that achievement
Exactly....It was a dopey thing for Shaub to tweet and another MSM distraction from what the real issue was. If she truly wanted to disparage or hurt the business, she would have tweeted right after it happened. Looks like she had no intent to respond at all until the MSM press asked, so responding on the government email seems more like the right procedure vs. how many followers.
Many people have been outspoken against Trump, including republicans.
That doesn't mean he is automatically wrong.
Agreed.
But he is also not automatically right.
Why don't we just wait and see where is goes? I say nowhere.
No one said he was.
I asked why his opinion was unfounded and your response was that he worked for Obama.
Sure. I don't think it will go anywhere... but you brought it up.
Trump has violated the rule but that isn't going anywhere either.
No one really cares about this rule, and it probably needs to be updated for our digital age.
It's an ugly incident. The restaurant has a right to do what they did. Sanders took it well and left the restaurant. Should have been end of story.
But then the next step was taken and you have hypocrites like Maxine Waters screaming to everyone to bother anyone they see in the current administration in public and protest and make them uncomfortable. If that ever happened to her in public it would immediately be labeled a racist incident and she'd have the MSM all over it. Overall the world has no decorum anymore and it's a problem on both sides in a big way.
But then the next step was taken and you have hypocrites like Maxine Waters screaming to everyone to bother anyone they see in the current administration in public and protest and make them uncomfortable. If that ever happened to her in public it would immediately be labeled a racist incident and she'd have the MSM all over it. Overall the world has no decorum anymore and it's a problem on both sides in a big way.
Ethical behavior, civil discourse, and common decency are gone, and it's nothing new. That said, I supported the right of the baker to decide when and where to provide his artwork (note that he offered to BAKE the cake, at least), and so the Red Hen's owner(s) should have the same right to refuse service. Soon we'll have Liberal- and Conservative-only establishments.
Just saw a piece on the news that says in certain cities and states it would be a civil rights violation, Washington DC and New York City being one of them.
"Those laws often differ on a state-to-state basis, though the Civil Rights Act of 1964 includes race, religion, national origin and color as factors that make discrimination illegal everywhere, according to Washington University law professor Elizabeth Sepper. While political affiliation is a protected trait in the District, the same cannot be said for Lexington, Va., where Sanders visited the Red Hen.
States and cities who have added wording to the Civil Rights statute prevent this kind of behavior.
"and Creed" are the magic words that would preclude it and would hold the owner liable for the civil rights violation.
In the case of hecklers it is the owner's responsibility to ask the hecklers to leave and if they don't the owner must contact the police.
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As someone who doesn't support Trump admin this is extremely disheartening and a win for Trump/co. Refusing service to someone based on who they serve politically is a dangerous precedent that accomplishes nothing beneficial to any cause.
There are so many ways to counter Sarah and her boss through
reasoned discourse - why stoop to such tribal and illiberal levels?
There are so many ways to counter Sarah and her boss through
reasoned discourse - why stoop to such tribal and illiberal levels?
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Yes and most Dems and free minded people can look at Maxine and call her out as wrong just like Shumer did. Does that happen in the world of Trump? No - a few singular Republicans who do not seek re-election may do it but the silence is deafening.
Generally I roll my eyes at Waters. But I have no problem with what she said. I’m tired of “going high” against these utter monsters in charge right now as well as his minions at the rallies and on social media. How has that “going high” worked out since Obama took over? Going high led to the Dem party being almost wiped out at every level of gov’t...losing over 1000 seats.
Trumpers did whatever they wanted during the primaries, and still now harass media members & others. Excuse me if I don’t shed a tear for the powerful in this country being inconvenienced for a few minutes considering the complete havoc they’re wreaking on the powerless. Lotta whining coming from the right on this...thought us lefties were the snowflakes & you were the big tough guys?
Trumpers did whatever they wanted during the primaries, and still now harass media members & others. Excuse me if I don’t shed a tear for the powerful in this country being inconvenienced for a few minutes considering the complete havoc they’re wreaking on the powerless. Lotta whining coming from the right on this...thought us lefties were the snowflakes & you were the big tough guys?
Yeah, remember his twitter rant about the dirty bakery that refused Biden?
Great Find Merge. Once again showing the unbelievable hypocrisy of the right. They have no shame.
It is one thing to ask Sanders to leave, which I feel is totally wrong, but based on accounts from her father the owner of the restaurant followed her and continued to heckle her even when she went to a different establishment. If that is true, there is something seriously wrong with the owner of the Red Hen.
But isn't the baker situation different as it involves some type of artistic/special type work, believe they would have made them a "regular cake" they refused to make them "something special that was requested". I support the owner in that case, just like I would support them if they refused to make a racist cake, lewd cake, etc.
Her father has been off the rails lately - but that's not what he said. He didn't say the owner followed her, he said the owner "organized an effort" to heckle sanders.
She may have been heckled, I have no idea... but tying that to the owner seems like something her father would have no clue about and is just trying to hurt their business.
