The Truth
- Thread starter Blue Bloods
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This is pathetic and any person who likes this is below imbecile level of judgment regardless of political leaning, just get all the trolling out there as much as possible
whats up with the crazy focus on abortion? how is that a party issue? for a republicsn party that is so focused freedom, they sure do want to control peoples choices.
Many people consider abortion to be murder. Do you have a choice to go and murder someone on the street? Technically you do, but you'll pay the price.
but 100% of them are republican... its strange. suspect.
and wanting it abolished completely is taking the side of criminals in some cases. and which party gets on the other for taking the sode of criminals?
shu09 do you believe its murder?
Those of you who think abortion is murder, are you really consistent with that thought? Do you want the criminal justice system. To be investigating and prosecuting women and doctors for murder? Do you want women and doctors to go to jail for 30 years for an abortion? Think about the consequences when you say abortion is murder. Doesn’t law enforcement have enough to do?
Since the democratic party is focused on science, they seem to ignore the fact that science says life begins at fertilization. Logic says that makes abortion at any stage murder.
I assume this is science. Should we follow this science? When Joe Biden says he will follow the science I believe this will be part of his platform. It pains me that Trump never brings this up about following the science to get democrats defensive.
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I don't think it is quite that simple. I don't think science has pointed to a moment between when a fertilized egg becomes a human life. Sperm is clearly "alive" though does not have the potential to become life on its own. A fetus is clearly alive, though also does not have potential to become life outside of a womb (until 20ish weeks?)
As someone who does believe that abortion is killing a life, I'm not sure I can make that decision for others as to when it is a human life. I'd rather we focus on trying to create policies which help reduce the reasons why women want to have an abortion and keep the procedure itself to be a choice between a woman and her doctor.
I am pro choice and a republican. three of my colleagues at my work are pro life Democrats.
Hmmmm, why not focus on the science? Just about every biologist says life begins at fertilization.
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3211703
Yes, that is when life begins. Without a doubt from my view, but again, I don't think it is that easy.
Is a fertilized egg, without a spine or brain or the ability for consciousness a human life?
The elements for consciousness are not developed until fairly late into gestation.
Again, from my view, my daughters lives began at conception and it is unthinkable to me that we would end one of their lives intentionally when we found out my wife was pregnant.
I am just saying that it is not really settled science about when the life becomes a human being, and I can't make the decision for others.
I'm not asking your view. I'm telling you the view of SCIENCE. And the view of science answers your question with YES. I'm asking why you're concerned about people's views and not the science.
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If you really believed that, then you would be defending those lives as vigorously as black lives, or the lives of the poor, homeless, etc. And yes, the life isn't survivable outside of the womb until "20ish weeks," several weeks earlier than it was 25 or 30 years ago. Perhaps medical science will advance that further.
100%? Better do some homework, hoss. I don't even know what you're talking about in the next sentence.
There used to be a lot more pro-life Democrats before the party became usurped by Planned Parenthood, and its devotees were forced to fall in line on ALL issues (and the latter also goes for the Republicans, by the way).
Science says all life is life though. Plants, trees etc...
What we're talking about is more of a philosophical question which I can appreciate a different opinion than my own.
We're talking about abortion being murder. Murder is pretty specific about premeditated killing of another human life. Life starts at fertilization. That includes human life. Religion and science agree on that. I'm not sure how philosophical that is.
I can respect your view, but I can also respect others who do not share your opinion on what defines "human" and who view the life differently. I can see the perspective that a human life requires some level of consciousness or autonomy. Should a fetus be viewed differently than an embryo or zygote?
If a woman wanted the child and complications arose should a doctor treat the situation the same if it was a woman at 30 weeks vs 8?
I just don't think it is as clear cut as you are trying to make it out to be, and I would prefer we direct efforts towards treating it not as women's empowerment, but as something that is difficult and sad. And that we make social efforts to reduce why women want to have abortions.
My view was not expressed at all. Not once did I say I think this or that. I gave you the definition of murder and the scientific view of life. When put together abortion is murder. None of that is my opinion. Follow the science.
You're matching up a legal definition of murder with a scientific definition of life without giving consideration to the fact that abortion is legal, so it is not included in the legal definition of murder.
The scientific view of animals is that they are alive.
Do you eat meat? Hunt for sport?
Animals are alive, but killing animals is not premeditated killing of another human being.
The real flaw in the pro-choice movement is the logic that it's a baby if I want it, it's a blob of cells if I don't.
It's more like it is an embryo with the ability to become a human if I decide I want to carry a baby.
Something like 1 million abortions per year, btw. I’m a pro choice person but I don’t see why PP is not proponents of adoption. There are only like 150K adoptions per year, 25% of which are children from foreign countries. These stats are by memory so don’t quote as gospel. There are many sub stories under these figures.
its really not a hard concept to understand. the only flaw is people refuse to accept it.
To be fair, I am not sure if you have had experience in a PP clinic. I have mentioned here before that I have. It was 20+ years ago now for birth control for my girlfriend at the time, but my experience was that the people there wanted her to not get pregnant. That was their goal in talking to us.
I get why you would suggest them being proponents of adoption, but that is not their job. Their job is to be a service provider. Not to tell people how to make decisions. The people there wanted us to think about what we would do if she got pregnant even saying that abortion is not easy mentally. Also gave out free condoms and pamphlets about STD's. It was a good experience honestly.
Whatever science says.
If you have a better scientific answer than this I'm open to better info.
https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/human_being
If you read along, it is descriptive of characteristics that do not resemble a zygote or embryo beyond just physical characteristics but mental ones as well like a brain capable of abstract reasoning. The brain of a fetus doesn't develop for weeks and then many more weeks until the brain develops so I am not sure at what point science would declare it to be a human.
Now, as I said... personally I believe that is when human life begins but I can respect the argument that does not believe that they are not ending a human life but a potential one.
“To be fair” you don’t know anything about me or my experiences so step back. Google PP and adoption and you get checklists as to why you might not want to put a kid up for adoption. Google PP and abortion and the check lists of “are you sure” questions are non existent.
I wasn’t trying to be combative with you. Just sharing my experience as someone who has been to a PP facility.
I just googled PP and adoption and there seemed to be lots of pages on on offering support to do so like this one.
Adoption Referrals
Millions of individuals face unplanned pregnancies every year. If you are considering adoption, we can help.
Planned Parenthood founded with the express purpose of reducing the number of black children born by abortion.As time went on they offered abortion to all races moving away from their founders original purpose.They didn’t start selling baby parts until a few years ago I believe.They are now the biggest abortion provider and good Catholics like Biden and Pelosi
( not) love them and want to increase their funding.Joe also has officiated at same sex marriages and I believe he believes
he can be a good catholic and disregard certain church teachings that he can’t support as a democrat.DNC chairman Perez said he can’t support any candidate who is not pro choice.
( not) love them and want to increase their funding.Joe also has officiated at same sex marriages and I believe he believes
he can be a good catholic and disregard certain church teachings that he can’t support as a democrat.DNC chairman Perez said he can’t support any candidate who is not pro choice.
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