Too Sloppy To Win

[Piratz]

Watching this team with the mindless turnovers and missed FT’s all year is tortuous.

Good fight, defense fine, enough to hang in, but it’s crazy how sloppy they are and I’m not sure even the best defense can cover the sloppiness on the other end. Have to find a way to clean this up.

 

[Burnsly]

Same old story. Desperately need a point guard.

 

[NYC Pirate]

Watching this team with the mindless turnovers and missed FT’s all year is tortuous.

Good fight, defense fine, enough to hang in, but it’s crazy how sloppy they are and I’m not sure even the best defense can cover the sloppiness on the other end. Have to find a way to clean this up.

I just feel like Sha's heart is on the defensive end. You do see a team that is coached well on that end. On the other hand I never feel he is truly in control of the offense. No mandates that I can garner from watching. Dawes and KC do whatever they want. Femi will drive 1 on 4 even 1 on 5. So, yes in the long run once he gets talented players like any other coach, they will be successful. I'm not impressed with the offense in any way to this point. That lack of discipline manifests at the free throw line where they can't maintain their fundamentals or focus. How can you miss double digit free throws game after game? It is what it is.

 

[LBP43]

Same old story. Desperately need a point guard.

We need a shooter .But we would have won tonite with Yetna

 

[PiratePride]

That was a helluva game by the Pirates....... chance to win with 14 seconds to go.... unfortunate turnover by KR..... but still alive with 3.7 seconds and a brilliantly executed final play.... except we missed a makeable 3. ugh

This team is fun to watch. X has the players and SHU was with them all the way.... I know.... no moral victories and I'm not counting this as one..... but I think this team will be tough to beat by the second half of the season..

Glass half full.

 

[dehere23]

Same old story. Desperately need a point guard.

Yup. There will be games eventually where guys hit outside shots and it papers that issue, but it is the reality. We need to up the level of shooting and one-on-one offensive playmaking to overcome the roster situation right now to be consistently good on that end. Richmond is a good offensive basketball player, but as the announcers pointed out, he's a scoring wing that happens to have some nice ball-skills and can make nice passes at times. He's our best offensive player, he's been great the last two games at the rim and in the paint, but he's not a PG. He's not even really a combo guard. He's a downhill wing that uses his size and strength to get to get to the basket and be effective around the rim.

If you had other guards and wings that could handle the ball at a high level, have some PG responsibilities, play-make for others, knock down shots consistently from the outside -- of course that would work if you want to label Kadary at "PG". But we are lacking in those areas right now.

 

[dehere23]

That was a helluva game by the Pirates....... chance to win with 14 seconds to go.... unfortunate turnover by KR..... but still alive with 3.7 seconds and a brilliantly executed final play.... except we missed a makeable 3. ugh

This team is fun to watch. X has the players and SHU was with them all the way.... I know.... no moral victories and I'm not counting this as one..... but I think this team will be tough to beat by the second half of the season..

Glass half full.

I think X is pretty good, especially on the offensive side. Their starting 5 gives you multiple skilled offensive players who can do different things. All 5 of them kind of fit together. But honestly I think they lack a PG too. Boum is more of a shooter/combo guard/scorer. Jones is a hybrid wing. Kunkel is a shooter.

 

[hbkmyr]

I just feel like Sha's heart is on the defensive end. You do see a team that is coached well on that end. On the other hand I never feel he is truly in control of the offense. No mandates that I can garner from watching. Dawes and KC do whatever they want. Femi will drive 1 on 4 even 1 on 5. So, yes in the long run once he gets talented players like any other coach, they will be successful. I'm not impressed with the offense in any way to this point. That lack of discipline manifests at the free throw line where they can't maintain their fundamentals or focus. How can you miss double digit free throws game after game? It is what it is.

That is who Holloway is. He’s said as much himself:

“It’s a give-and-take thing,’’ Holloway said. “If you give me hard work on defense, I’ll let you play offense. That’s us. Give me what I want on defense, you can go out there. You don’t come out of the game playing for me for making mistakes on offense. You come out of the game for making mistakes on defense. That’s just how it is

 

[Piratz]

That is who Holloway is. He’s said as much himself:

“It’s a give-and-take thing,’’ Holloway said. “If you give me hard work on defense, I’ll let you play offense. That’s us. Give me what I want on defense, you can go out there. You don’t come out of the game playing for me for making mistakes on offense. You come out of the game for making mistakes on defense. That’s just how it is

Sounds like Willard. He said the same exact thing at one point. I don’t get it. How about you perform on both ends? The team is 328th in turnover % and 268th in FT% despite having the 7th highest FTA:FGA mark in the nation. How is that alright? Many of the turnovers are bc our offense stinks: there’s no flow, over dribbling, errant passes. The defense isn’t good enough to offset that.

In the postgame Holloway said they spend a lot of time on FT’s. 🤷‍♂️

 

[mzadnik]

I think X is pretty good, especially on the offensive side. Their starting 5 gives you multiple skilled offensive players who can do different things. All 5 of them kind of fit together. But honestly I think they lack a PG too. Boum is more of a shooter/combo guard/scorer. Jones is a hybrid wing. Kunkel is a shooter.

They may lack a true PG, but they move the ball way better and smarter than we do. X had 23 assists on 26 baskets. That's pretty remarkable.

 

[Piratz]

They may lack a true PG, but they move the ball way better and smarter than we do. X had 23 assists on 26 baskets. That's pretty remarkable.

They run good stuff. They move, pass, and are well coached.

 

[PiratePride]

They may lack a true PG, but they move the ball way better and smarter than we do. X had 23 assists on 26 baskets. That's pretty remarkable.

they average 22.something assists per game. hard to beat that proficiency. We are still a work in progress.

 

[SHUSA]

Sounds like Willard. He said the same exact thing at one point. I don’t get it. How about you perform on both ends? The team is 328th in turnover % and 268th in FT% despite having the 7th highest FTA:FGA mark in the nation. How is that alright? Many of the turnovers are bc our offense stinks: there’s no flow, over dribbling, errant passes. The defense isn’t good enough to offset that.

In the postgame Holloway said they spend a lot of time on FT’s. 🤷‍♂️

completley agree. no basketball game has ended 0-0. you need to put the ball in the hoop. turnovers and FTs are losing our games.

 

[NYC Pirate]

Agree, Agree, Agree. First, no way you can replicate the free throw line playing in front
of 10,000 people, shooting into a student body section and game tired. All coaches say the same thing.

I don't understand the lack of accountability if you do really stupid "...t" bringing the ball up, not even attempting a pass
and trying to create shots that don't match your skillset. All the stats you mentioned are a reflection of extremely poor
basketball IQ.

 

[SHallguy2]

I see a team that’s improving slower than most of us would like but still improving. I’m enjoying watching them play, wish they were winning more games but they have a lot of fight. Most posters had them losing big tonight but they absolutely had a great chance to win.

 

[MBF72]

If Xavier is top tier BE team, the league is really weak this year.

 

[mbraue]

Sounds like Willard. He said the same exact thing at one point. I don’t get it. How about you perform on both ends? The team is 328th in turnover % and 268th in FT% despite having the 7th highest FTA:FGA mark in the nation. How is that alright? Many of the turnovers are bc our offense stinks: there’s no flow, over dribbling, errant passes. The defense isn’t good enough to offset that.

In the postgame Holloway said they spend a lot of time on FT’s. 🤷‍♂️

It’s still a challenged offense just different - if we can add one or two knock down shooters to the offense it might be watchable.

Funny, last game I was sitting next to Danny Calandrillo and he laughed about how if he were at SHU today he could pocket some nice change with the NIL the way he shot the ball. Needless to say he is not too impressed with our shooters on the team so far this season.

 

[dehere23]

They may lack a true PG, but they move the ball way better and smarter than we do. X had 23 assists on 26 baskets. That's pretty remarkable.

Agree. They can put 5 offensively skilled kids out there who complement each other and can do different things.

 

[radecicco]

The past seven years, SHU had continuity on the roster and guys you could close games with— IW, khadeen, MP, Q, Sandro, Aiken, Rhoden. We just don’t have that right now. So we stay in games with solid D until the team figures out how to win close games. It will take time.

 

[Piratz]

And can we stop slipping in big spots? Lol. Dawes did similar against Siena.

 

[Hall Is Life]

I see a team that’s improving slower than most of us would like but still improving. I’m enjoying watching them play, wish they were winning more games but they have a lot of fight. Most posters had them losing big tonight but they absolutely had a great chance to win.

I agree 100%. I am hopeful that we will turn these close losses into wins. Up 9 at the half against Providence and almost pulled it out against Xavier at their place. This is not a lost season and I see no reason we can’t win the next one.

 

[jdavispirates]

Great effort. Terrible play

 

[jdavispirates]

I agree 100%. I am hopeful that we will turn these close losses into wins. Up 9 at the half against Providence and almost pulled it out against Xavier at their place. This is not a lost season and I see no reason we can’t win the next one.

We’re 7-6. The season is over.

 

[garyshu71]

Just can not allow 73 points, ever, and expect this group to win . The offense is clearly set up to get to the rim and create fouls shots for us and foul trouble for the opponent. It’s a great plan with a group who can’t make from outside but when you get to the line you have to convert. No excuse for high D-1 players to be missing at this rate. Pressure is having to make shots in practice until your eyes are bleeding. Players don’t like running laps for their misses!

 

[cernjSHU]

I was very critical of the team and the coach early on. But, the team played hard the last few games. They played pretty decently on Defense tonight. I did think Sha sat Samuel too long late in the second half when X got out to a 7 point lead. As I said after the last game, you can’t expect to win games shooting 23% from three point line and 60% from the foul line. Ultimately, X shot it slightly better from the line and there is your ball game.

I like the effort by the team. They actually ran some good plays in the game.

 

[lokiSHU]

Watching this team with the mindless turnovers and missed FT’s all year is tortuous.

Good fight, defense fine, enough to hang in, but it’s crazy how sloppy they are and I’m not sure even the best defense can cover the sloppiness on the other end. Have to find a way to clean this up.

We need bigs. Providence has two bigs go for over 20 pts. Xavier had freemantle go for 23. This will not be fixed this yr. 3pt shooting also putrid.

 

[Piratz]

We need bigs. Providence has two bigs go for over 20 pts. Xavier had freemantle go for 23. This will not be fixed this yr. 3pt shooting also putrid.

We have that limitation. We have to do other things better to offset it. You can have that, the turnovers, and the bad FT shooting.

It’s very disappointing bc these were two games that were there for the taking. An experienced team like The Hall should be capitalizing on these chances.

The team has been playing better the past 4 games for sure, so we’ll see. At 6-6, 0-2 KP 64, NET 94, there’s A LOT of work to do. The game at Marquette next Tuesday is as big as you can have in Dec.

 

[ivyhillparkk1963]

Watching this team with the mindless turnovers and missed FT’s all year is tortuous.

Good fight, defense fine, enough to hang in, but it’s crazy how sloppy they are and I’m not sure even the best defense can cover the sloppiness on the other end. Have to find a way to clean this up.

Must have given away at least 16 points yesterday on those TO and FT misses

 

[ATM82]

Actually feeling more positive today after a well played loss, does look like a step in the right direction. No reason we can't beat Xavier next time around. Gotta hit those free throws though.

 

[Ferreri22]

Saying we’d be 2-0 if we made FTs is a lazy answer. We missed 9, they missed 6. Even if we cut that 9 in half, yes it changes the game, tempo, scenarios, etc. But its not as easy as “oh, we woukd of won”. Teams play to the scoreboard (for the most part), so Xavier would most likely run different stuff, esp in last 5 mins, 10 mins if the score was was different. You see the same in all sports, football as well… I think the better question is- can you name a worse shooting team in the Power 5/6 Conferences? Sha has to take blame for this, he has constructed more then half the roster.

 

[SHallguy2]

We’re 7-6. The season is over.

Best Seton Hall teams I ever saw finished the season strong. I could see this team winning The Big East Tournament. Doesn’t look good right now I will give you that but anything can still happen. Our players have not given up and neither should we.

 

[shu09]

Sounds like Willard. He said the same exact thing at one point. I don’t get it. How about you perform on both ends? The team is 328th in turnover % and 268th in FT% despite having the 7th highest FTA:FGA mark in the nation. How is that alright? Many of the turnovers are bc our offense stinks: there’s no flow, over dribbling, errant passes. The defense isn’t good enough to offset that.

In the postgame Holloway said they spend a lot of time on FT’s. 🤷‍♂️

Coaches are stubborn creatures. They have their way of doing things and most are stuck in it. I appreciate the defensive first mindset, I really do. That's how I'd approach things as a coach with a system. But you cannot completely ignore or brush off what happens on the other side of the floor. You have to be able to score the ball to win at this level. Period. I understand it's his first season and he doesn't have a great roster that's conducive to scoring. I can give him a pass for this year, but it needs to change. I think it will, but that's not guaranteed.

Of all the top 80 KenPom teams, only one (Northwestern) has a worse offensive efficiency than Seton Hall. Not good. Terrible, in fact.

 

[NYC Pirate]

Best Seton Hall teams I ever saw finished the season strong. I could see this team winning The Big East Tournament. Doesn’t look good right now I will give you that but anything can still happen. Our players have not given up and neither should we.

I agree you can see more positive results coming., I believe after the SJU home game the schedule softens quite a bit.So 10-10 or 11-9 possible. However, the blemishes that the roster have could take a year or two to be corrected.

Also, once UConn came into the picture winning the BigEast Tournament will be much more difficult as MSG turns into a home venue for them . Quite evident last year.

 

[lloyde dobler]

Saying we’d be 2-0 if we made FTs is a lazy answer. We missed 9, they missed 6. Even if we cut that 9 in half, yes it changes the game, tempo, scenarios, etc. But it’s not as easy as “oh, we woukd of won”. Teams play to the scoreboard (for the most part), so Xavier would most likely run different stuff, esp in last 5 mins, 10 mins if the score was was different. You see the same in all sports, football as well… I think the better question is- can you name a worse shooting team in the Power 5/6 Conferences? Sha has to take blame for this, he has constructed more than half the roster.

Missing front ends hurt. Richmond missing one and then committing his fourth foul at half court like what happened the other day hurts. This team just isn’t good enough to give up points like that.

 

[SOpirate]

Some more encouraging signs last night, but need to turn those into wins soon. Looking ahead at the schedule need to head into that UConn game at 5-4 at least to have a realistic shot at a bid.

 

[Ferreri22]

Missing front ends hurt. Richmond missing one and then committing his fourth foul at half court like what happened the other day hurts. This team just isn’t good enough to give up points like that.

Agreed. 100%. Thats what losing teams do.. but for pple to just assume we win both games, is just not true.

 

[ivyhillparkk1963]

How about that steal and breakaway by KR in which he almost fumbled the ball away? man thatvwould have been so typical. lol

 

[SHUSA]

Coaches are stubborn creatures. They have their way of doing things and most are stuck in it. I appreciate the defensive first mindset, I really do. That's how I'd approach things as a coach with a system. But you cannot completely ignore or brush off what happens on the other side of the floor. You have to be able to score the ball to win at this level. Period. I understand it's his first season and he doesn't have a great roster that's conducive to scoring. I can give him a pass for this year, but it needs to change. I think it will, but that's not guaranteed.

Of all the top 80 KenPom teams, only one (Northwestern) has a worse offensive efficiency than Seton Hall. Not good. Terrible, in fact.

part of the problem is that we have only one guy whose remotely decent on offense.

 

[JTSHU]

We know what this team is. Season is over. Hope for talent next year. No point in dissecting each players issues anymore.

 

[JTSHU]

Some more encouraging signs last night, but need to turn those into wins soon. Looking ahead at the schedule need to head into that UConn game at 5-4 at least to have a realistic shot at a bid.

A bid to the NIT?