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Trump Indictment

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cernjSHU

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I have to say this is a rather weak indictment. No one cares that Trump paid hush money to a porn star. The crime is filing a false business record because he repaid Michael Cohen and termed it legal fees. Ugh. The DA should have left this alone and let the Feds decide to charge on what is a real crime of Obstruction on the top secret docs. Yeah, it’s technically a misdemeanor crime but who cares about private affairs.

Second, there may be a big procedural issue on statute of limitations. Normally 5 years to charge.
Bad move in my opinion.
 
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Looks like nonsense that just keeps Trump in the news and fires up his base even more. Made a big deal about 34 counts, but they all relate back to the same thing. Bragg is either an idiot or taking one for the team (or both). Then he refers to a potential future crime but doesn’t say what it is.
 
This is why Bragg was given this role. It amazes me how much Democrats and Republicans hurt themselves. This time it's the Democrats. It's really a chance to put a complete ass in the role of the victim.
 
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cernjSHU said:
Bad move in my opinion.
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Seems that way. I was expecting there to be more to it for them to actually bring charges. This looks incredibly weak right now.

I would guess (again just a guess) the "potential" charges would be related to the tax treatment of these payments by Trump. There could be some tax issues there so that could get a little hairy down the road if this isn't dismissed beforehand.
 
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There probably was technically a crime committed, but this does seem like a political power play.
 
Facially it seems like a political ploy designed to help make Trump the candidate in 2024. Keep the focus on him. Make the party and election about him. Instead of Biden and the Ds.
 
If Trump were to disappear the nightly news would have nothing to talk about. On a positive note this issue has a good 2 year window, and then what happens, NOTHING.
 
There is no doubt this is a political move.
The question is what is the move and who is making it?

IMO, there's no way that Bragg is doing on his own simply to fulfill a campaign promise or for a personal vendetta. That would be way too risky.

I can envision multiple theories and scenarios, but there isn't one that I would be willing to bet on as being the right one.

I'd love to know who is truly pulling the strings on this one.
 
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Pirata said:
There is no doubt this is a political move.
The question is what is the move and who is making it?

IMO, there's no way that Bragg is doing on his own simply to fulfill a campaign promise or for a personal vendetta. That would be way too risky.

I can envision multiple theories and scenarios, but there isn't one that I would be willing to bet on as being the right one.

I'd love to know who is truly pulling the strings on this one.
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It's the establishment as a whole. Trump shocked them in 2016 even though they did a lot to try to stop him. They got him out in '20 and they are not going to risk him getting elected again. They're going to pull out all the stops, including this, to prevent him from being the nominee. This is why I've been certain when cern and others debate me as to whether or not he'll be the nominee. I'm convinced he won't be, for various reasons (including this).
 
shu09 said:
It's the establishment as a whole. Trump shocked them in 2016 even though they did a lot to try to stop him. They got him out in '20 and they are not going to risk him getting elected again. They're going to pull out all the stops, including this, to prevent him from being the nominee. This is why I've been certain when cern and others debate me as to whether or not he'll be the nominee. I'm convinced he won't be, for various reasons (including this).
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This seems to be a clear blatant attempt to stop Trump. If they do this I worry how Trump and his supporters respond. I have a buddy of mine who says imagine if Trump got up there and told all his supports to defer their withholding until the end of the year. They'd pay the fines and penalties to support him at year end, but that steady stream of money not coming in could destroy the government greater than we could ever imagine.
 
See I view it the other way. I don’t think this is being done because the establishment thinks it will stop Trump. I think this is the Democratic power brokers pulling the strings because while they know it is a charge with no teeth, it will only embolden Trump and his diehard supporters, and gives him the best chance to end up as the nominee. And they want to run against him and make the next election about him.
 
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dehere23 said:
See I view it the other way. I don’t think this is being done because the establishment thinks it will stop Trump. I think this is the Democratic power brokers pulling the strings because while they know it is a charge with no teeth, it will only embolden Trump and his diehard supporters, and gives him the best chance to end up as the nominee. And they want to run against him and make the next election about him.
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I don't think they want to risk him getting elected again though.
 
Sorry to disappoint you conspiracists. I am sure the Democratic Party did not want to indict Trump on a weak indictment. This is not what they wanted. It looks bad. This is a DA for whatever reason decided to go forward with this charge. There is just no way the powers at be thought this was a good idea.

It makes no sense whatsoever to go after Trump on a very flimsy case with statute of limitations issues. There are two other cases that have more real impact. The one in Georgia and the Federal obstruction case based upon the documents. There is no coordinated action here. It's just a bad DA moving forward with a case he never should have brought.
 
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shu09 said:
I don't think they want to risk him getting elected again though.
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I never thought he had a chance to win a general election. In my opinion democrats should've wanted Trump on the ballot because people will show up just to vote against him. Now they've kind of confirmed they're out to get him, with so many people saying this case is on the weak side. He has a chance to sway independents by saying this isn't about anything I did, they just don't like what I stand for. Tomorrow if they don't like what you stand for they could do the same thing to you. I can just see his campaign built around him being good saying you could be next. Two weeks ago, I would've said he has no chance to sway independents. Now I'm starting to think a little differently.
 
cernjSHU said:
Sorry to disappoint you conspiracists. I am sure the Democratic Party did not want to indict Trump on a weak indictment. This is not what they wanted. It looks bad. This is a DA for whatever reason decided to go forward with this charge. There is just no way the powers at be thought this was a good idea.

It makes no sense whatsoever to go after Trump on a very flimsy case with statute of limitations issues. There are two other cases that have more real impact. The one in Georgia and the Federal obstruction case based upon the documents. There is no coordinated action here. It's just a bad DA moving forward with a case he never should have brought.
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I think there will be a drip, drip, drip here, which is why they started with the weakest one. The Georgia one is the one to watch.
 
cernjSHU said:
Sorry to disappoint you conspiracists. I am sure the Democratic Party did not want to indict Trump on a weak indictment. This is not what they wanted. It looks bad. This is a DA for whatever reason decided to go forward with this charge. There is just no way the powers at be thought this was a good idea.

It makes no sense whatsoever to go after Trump on a very flimsy case with statute of limitations issues. There are two other cases that have more real impact. The one in Georgia and the Federal obstruction case based upon the documents. There is no coordinated action here. It's just a bad DA moving forward with a case he never should have brought.
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I don’t think it’s a conspiracy theory at all. It’s pretty obvious from 2022 that the Democrats put financial support behind Republican candidates in primaries that were extreme and it paid off. While the charge is flimsy, the attention gives Trump a better chance to win the nomination next year, which is what Democrats desperately need, because Biden is not beating any other candidate they put up.

The youth vote and suburban woman ended up flipping the election to Biden. There is no way any of them vote for Trump in 2024. He’s the only candidate that would ensure a Democratic victory.
 
HALL85 said:
I don’t think it’s a conspiracy theory at all. It’s pretty obvious from 2022 that the Democrats put financial support behind Republican candidates in primaries that were extreme and it paid off. While the charge is flimsy, the attention gives Trump a better chance to win the nomination next year, which is what Democrats desperately need, because Biden is not beating any other candidate they put up.

The youth vote and suburban woman ended up flipping the election to Biden. There is no way any of them vote for Trump in 2024. He’s the only candidate that would ensure a Democratic victory.
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Who knows, but this is why I came out why I did. Bragg is a political animal. He isn't doing this, I don't think, without sign-off from the power brokers in the party. We know from 2022 that the D's put $ behind Trump/MAGA candidates because they wanted those folks to be the opponent. It saved the Senate for the Ds. While I hope shu09 is correct, I think Trump is going to be the nomination if he runs unless every other Republican candidate drops besides DeSantis and all their support goes to him, kind of what happened when the D power-brokers rallied around Biden for fear of Sanders getting the nod in 2020. Trump's base has shown it will not leave him, no matter what he does it seems, and I think this only emboldens them and him. I think the Ds want Biden to run against Trump because they do not want Biden, in any way, shape or form, to have to deal with DeSantis.
 
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As I have said for the past year, Trump is the nominee of the Republican Party. The only way he is not the nominee, is if he gets indicted. This has always been my thoughts. However, the NY Indictment will not cut it. Do you really think that the Dems think that an indictment does anything but hurt Trump's chances?

I know alot of you have said that Trump won't be the nominee, (I have a bet with someone about this). but he was always going to be the nominee. The only thing that could stop him is an indictment. And that is the only way that another candidate can beat Trump in the primary.
 
cernjSHU said:
As I have said for the past year, Trump is the nominee of the Republican Party. The only way he is not the nominee, is if he gets indicted. This has always been my thoughts. However, the NY Indictment will not cut it. Do you really think that the Dems think that an indictment does anything but hurt Trump's chances?

I know alot of you have said that Trump won't be the nominee, (I have a bet with someone about this). but he was always going to be the nominee. The only thing that could stop him is an indictment. And that is the only way that another candidate can beat Trump in the primary.
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problem is you have a lot of people who held their nose voting for Biden or Trump last election. Will trying every weak case imaginable against Trump make those who held their nose voting Biden flip to Trump. I think this is going too far and the public will see the biggest narcissist in the country in a different light, the victim of a corrupt system who is trying too hard to find anything and everything to get him on.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
problem is you have a lot of people who held their nose voting for Biden or Trump last election. Will trying every weak case imaginable against Trump make those who held their nose voting Biden flip to Trump. I think this is going too far and the public will see the biggest narcissist in the country in a different light, the victim of a corrupt system who is trying too hard to find anything and everything to get him on.
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Really? A billionaire as a victim of the system when he admitted to manipulating the system himself? He is still the guy who lied about the election being stolen and egged on the riot in January 6. Those who vote for trump will have always voted for trump. We will see about independents

I have said this is not the right indictment to bring. But there are others looming which are real indictments and problems for Trump. His lawlessness hopefully catches up to him.
 
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cernjSHU said:
Really? A billionaire as a victim of the system when he admitted to manipulating the system himself? He is still the guy who lied about the election being stolen and egged on the riot in January 6. Those who vote for trump will have always voted for trump. We will see about independents

I have said this is not the right indictment to bring. But there are others looming which are real indictments and problems for Trump. His lawlessness hopefully catches up to him.
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No independents are going back to Trump because of this indictment. The notion that he is a victim as the other poster said is flat out ridiculous. I think its more likely independents sit out 2024. But like you said, there are more indictments coming (GA being most likely IMO)
 
sussexcopirate said:
No independents are going back to Trump because of this indictment. The notion that he is a victim as the other poster said is flat out ridiculous. I think its more likely independents sit out 2024. But like you said, there are more indictments coming (GA being most likely IMO)
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If Indpendents sit out Trump wins a general. There's enough independents in PA, AZ, GA, WI, and MI to flip the election. You don't want to call him a victim. That's fine. Call it whatever you want, it's overplaying their hand. If they stay home instead of going out to vote against Trump, he wins.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
problem is you have a lot of people who held their nose voting for Biden or Trump last election. Will trying every weak case imaginable against Trump make those who held their nose voting Biden flip to Trump.
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Yes, this case is weak but it's not like what happened wasn't against the law. I don't think "Trump isn't as big of a criminal as the democrats want him to be" is that strong of a sell.

Republicans have an excellent chance in 2024 if they can nominate someone else. If Trump is on the ballot, he will lose again.
 
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SHUHoopsFan said:
If Indpendents sit out Trump wins a general. There's enough independents in PA, AZ, GA, WI, and MI to flip the election. You don't want to call him a victim. Call it whatever you want, if they stay home instead of going out to vote against Trump, he wins.
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I disagree, but perhaps you're right. I wasn't debating whose winning the 2024 election, just speaking from my point of view as an Independent who already voted for the man 2x previously.
 
sussexcopirate said:
I disagree, but perhaps you're right. I wasn't debating whose winning the 2024 election, just speaking from my point of view as an Independent who already voted for the man 2x previously.
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12,000 votes in AZ, 15,000 votes in GA, 20,000 votes in WI. Michigan and PA are greater but they have more independents as well.
 
Not to mention, I hear more and more fear about the US dollars impact on the world. So I think that may be a big issue for independents if we don't change that in the next 19 months.
 
SHUHoopsFan said:
Not to mention, I hear more and more fear about the US dollars impact on the world. So I think that may be a big issue for independents if we don't change that in the next 19 months.
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People have been talking about the collapse of the dollar for decades. Mostly fearmongering.
 
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Merge said:
and then Trump endorsed candidates in AZ, GA and PA who all lost. I wouldn't be placing hopes on those states.
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Not sure what that has to do with anything as we're discussing the impact the indictment od these weak cases will have.
 
cernjSHU said:
As I have said for the past year, Trump is the nominee of the Republican Party. The only way he is not the nominee, is if he gets indicted. This has always been my thoughts. However, the NY Indictment will not cut it. Do you really think that the Dems think that an indictment does anything but hurt Trump's chances?

I know alot of you have said that Trump won't be the nominee, (I have a bet with someone about this). but he was always going to be the nominee. The only thing that could stop him is an indictment. And that is the only way that another candidate can beat Trump in the primary.
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Trump isn't the nominee because you say so. There is still a primary process and it's much different landscape than back in 2016. Totally disagree with your take. The indictment (which supports Trump's witch-hunt claims) only helps Trump in getting the nomination. It keeps him in the news and fires up his base. Once again, replay of what the Dem's did in the mid-terms, so there is precedent.

I don't think he will be the nominee. Is there a chance? Sure, but the polls mean nothing right now.
 
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SHUHoopsFan said:
Not sure what that has to do with anything as we're discussing the impact the indictment od these weak cases will have.
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Because you're assuming a case that shows Trump is only a small time criminal is going to help his chances in states that have not viewed him favorably the last two cycles.
 
Merge said:
Because you're assuming a case that shows Trump is only a small time criminal is going to help his chances in states that have not viewed him favorably the last two cycles.
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It’s a case that shows there is an establishment out to get him. The same people going after him can go after many of their billionaire donors for the same exact things. Trump is the same crook they all are.
 
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HALL85 said:
Trump isn't the nominee because you say so. There is still a primary process and it's much different landscape than back in 2016. Totally disagree with your take. The indictment (which supports Trump's witch-hunt claims) only helps Trump in getting the nomination. It keeps him in the news and fires up his base. Once again, replay of what the Dem's did in the mid-terms, so there is precedent.

I don't think he will be the nominee. Is there a chance? Sure, but the polls mean nothing right now.
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If it were up to me, Trump would not be the nominee. But I have eyes and ears. Trump's base has not gone anywhere from the time he left the White House. He will be the nominee because of his base that will never leave him and will vote for him over all candidates. It has nothing to do with my say so. You want to ignore that fact, go ahead. There is no other Republican candidate that can beat him. None including DeSantis. The only thing that will defeat him is a real powerful indictment.

An indictment of paying off a porn star and then writing it off as a business expense is not cutting it. Now, should this be enough to disqualify him to be President. Of course. But that is not reality with this guy.
 
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cernjSHU said:
If it were up to me, Trump would not be the nominee. But I have eyes and ears. Trump's base has not gone anywhere from the time he left the White House. He will be the nominee because of his base that will never leave him and will vote for him over all candidates. It has nothing to do with my say so. You want to ignore that fact, go ahead. There is no other Republican candidate that can beat him. None including DeSantis. The only thing that will defeat him is a real powerful indictment.
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He has a base, but I don't think as nearly as big and strong as 2016. And the party is hell bent on him not getting it. They know he can't win the general. I don't know what the plan is, but it won't be a dopey indictment.
cernjSHU said:
An indictment of paying off a porn star and then writing it off as a business expense is not cutting it. Now, should this be enough to disqualify him to be President. Of course. But that is not reality with this guy.
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There is nothing to the indictment and Bragg is just a puppet. It's keeping him in the news riling his base and diverting attention from the mess we have domestically and globally.
 
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