Trump Korean Summit

[cernjSHU]

As expected nothing came out of this Summit. Trump agreed to stop the "war games" exercise with South Korea. Why would he do this? For a promise to work for "denuclearization"? I wonder what South Korea and Japan think about this?

While this is better than the saber rattling of the past year, what was accomplished except to legitimize the North Korean dictator? Seems to me this was a photo op publicity stunt for both leaders with absolutely no details and no real policy and agreements. This was great for Un. He brought an American President to his knees to negotiate due to his nuclear arsenal. Un was an equal to the American President.

Diplomacy is certainly preferred. But at this start of relations, the American President does not go to meet a dictator without an agreement in hand and concessions from the dictator. We look weak and ridiculous.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

We look weak and ridiculous? Is toughness sending over $400 million on unmarked planes for hostages? It's been said on every network the President expects this to take more than 1 meeting.

 

[Section112]

As expected nothing came out of this Summit. Trump agreed to stop the "war games" exercise with South Korea. Why would he do this? For a promise to work for "denuclearization"? I wonder what South Korea and Japan think about this?

While this is better than the saber rattling of the past year, what was accomplished except to legitimize the North Korean dictator? Seems to me this was a photo op publicity stunt for both leaders with absolutely no details and no real policy and agreements. This was great for Un. He brought an American President to his knees to negotiate due to his nuclear arsenal. Un was an equal to the American President.

Diplomacy is certainly preferred. But at this start of relations, the American President does not go to meet a dictator without an agreement in hand and concessions from the dictator. We look weak and ridiculous.

You just heard the Democrats response. Thank you cernj!

 

[shu09]

As expected nothing came out of this Summit. Trump agreed to stop the "war games" exercise with South Korea. Why would he do this? For a promise to work for "denuclearization"? I wonder what South Korea and Japan think about this?

While this is better than the saber rattling of the past year, what was accomplished except to legitimize the North Korean dictator? Seems to me this was a photo op publicity stunt for both leaders with absolutely no details and no real policy and agreements. This was great for Un. He brought an American President to his knees to negotiate due to his nuclear arsenal. Un was an equal to the American President.

Diplomacy is certainly preferred. But at this start of relations, the American President does not go to meet a dictator without an agreement in hand and concessions from the dictator. We look weak and ridiculous.

I couldn't disagree more. I think this was a success and will lead to even more dialogue and action down the road. I also support ending the war games. There is no need for us to do this and is a very minor concession to the North Koreans, who view them as provocations and rehearsals for an invasion.

Remember, the US has ALL the power and leverage in these negotiations. It was the president who sanctioned them harder than any previous administration and threatened them enough where they thought we might actually go in and hit them. That's what moves authoritarian regimes to the table. Harry Truman once said of the Soviets, "force is the only thing the Russians understand." With North Korea, it's much the same way.

They did sign an agreement. It's right here: https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/12/politics/read-full-text-of-trump-kim-signed-statement/index.html

NK will work towards denuclearization and they reaffirmed the Panmunjom Declaration, which calls for working towards ending the Korean War. More importantly, the two sides will be holding more negotiations where the nitty gritty of denuclearization can be expanded on and spelled out in more detail.

Making peace with an oppressive dictatorship does not happen overnight. Last night was just the first step in a long process. If you can't see that, I actually feel sorry for you.

 

[Pirata]

Making peace with an oppressive dictatorship does not happen overnight. Last night was just the first step in a long process. If you can't see that, I actually feel sorry for you.

Well said.



The MSM is begrudgingly acknowledging the success of the summit. My understanding of the Asian culture is that face saving is extremely important. This will take time and so far I think Trump and his team are playing this well.

 

[Merge]

I couldn't disagree more. I think this was a success and will lead to even more dialogue and action down the road. I also support ending the war games. There is no need for us to do this and is a very minor concession to the North Koreans, who view them as provocations and rehearsals for an invasion.

Agreed. These talks are a good thing.
I would have preferred that we didn't piss off our allies the day before... Don't like the optics there - but talking with Kim is a very good thing.
I don't trust them, and we shouldn't, but you have to start somewhere.

 

[knowknow456]

I am in the camp that says the meeting was a good thing.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

Agreed. These talks are a good thing.
I would have preferred that we didn't piss off our allies the day before... Don't like the optics there - but talking with Kim is a very good thing.
I don't trust them, and we shouldn't, but you have to start somewhere.

I agree that the talks are a good thing and that we cannot trust them. That's exactly why we have to verify constantly after the deal is done.

 

[Pirata]

I would have preferred that we didn't piss off our allies the day before...

I viewed Trump's G7 play as a tactic to show KJU that Trump is his own man and not worried about the media or pressure from Merkel and certainly not Trudeau.

 

[Merge]

I viewed Trump's G7 play as a tactic to show KJU that Trump is his own man and not worried about the media or pressure from Merkel and certainly not Trudeau.

I think that point had been made clear well before that... and even so... I am not in favor of trying to appease someone like Kim at the expense of our allies. As @shu09 said - We are supposed to have all of the power here.

 

[shu09]

I didn't really have a problem with the G7 stuff. I thought that was overblown by the media. It's a trade dispute, not a permanent fracture of the military alliance. Families and friends have arguments all the time...

The fact is, Trump is technically right on this issue. A lot of our allies do not pay their fair share when it comes to trade or NATO. They just don't like hearing about it because they've gotten away with it for so long. Trump is not a business as usual, good old boy globalist that they've been used to seeing in the White House for decades.

All of that said, the G7 has nothing to do with the North Korea summit.

 

[Section112]

I despise Trump's tweets and cringe when he talks. But this is a good first step and is one that the past few Presidents could not accomplish. Have to give credit where credit is due.

I watched both CBS and ABC this morning just to see how they would cover this and it was amazing how little credit they gave and how they all whined about the war games being suspended which is not a big deal at all. With any negotiation there has to be give and take which is better than an all out war IMO and everyone with a brain knows this is just an initial first step. Dennis Rodman gave more credit to Trump on this issue than the MSM. Sad really and I can't stand Trump.

 

[shu09]

I watched both CBS and ABC this morning just to see how they would cover this and it was amazing how little credit they gave and how they all whined about the war games being suspended which is not a big deal at all.

That's because war is big business to the corporate media, military industrial complex, neo-cons, globalists, think tanks, etc.

 

[Pirata]

I am not in favor of trying to appease someone like Kim

Appease? Really?

 

[Pirata]

I watched both CBS and ABC this morning just to see how they would cover this

Rachel Maddow's TDS was on full display yesterday as was Chris Mathew's.

 

[Pirata]

Here is the full text of the signed agreement. Item four is interesting. I would expect to see some solemn events in the near future as the known remains arrive at Dover.

Joint Statement of President Donald J. Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea at the Singapore Summit​

President Donald J. Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK) held a first, historic summit in Singapore on June 12, 2018.

President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un conducted a comprehensive, in-depth, and sincere exchange of opinions on the issues related to the establishment of new U.S.–DPRK relations and the building of a lasting and robust peace regime on the Korean Peninsula. President Trump committed to provide security guarantees to the DPRK, and Chairman Kim Jong Un reaffirmed his firm and unwavering commitment to complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

Convinced that the establishment of new U.S.–DPRK relations will contribute to the peace and prosperity of the Korean Peninsula and of the world, and recognizing that mutual confidence building can promote the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un state the following:

1. The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new U.S.–DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity.
2. The United States and the DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula.
3. Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.
4. The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified.

Having acknowledged that the U.S.–DPRK summit—the first in history—was an epochal event of great significance in overcoming decades of tensions and hostilities between the two countries and for the opening up of a new future, President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong Un commit to implement the stipulations in this joint statement fully and expeditiously. The United States and the DPRK commit to hold follow-on negotiations, led by the U.S. Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, and a relevant high-level DPRK official, at the earliest possible date, to implement the outcomes of the U.S.–DPRK summit.

President Donald J. Trump of the United States of America and Chairman Kim Jong Un of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea have committed to cooperate for the development of new U.S.–DPRK relations and for the promotion of peace, prosperity, and security of the Korean Peninsula and of the world.

DONALD J. TRUMP
President of the United States of America

KIM JONG UN
Chairman of the State Affairs Commission of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea

June 12, 2018
Sentosa Island
Singapore

 

[Pirata]

Trump agreed to stop the "war games" exercise with South Korea. Why would he do this?

Not part of the signed agreement. A verbal commitment only. Having said that, the signed agreement is symbolic only, a notch above a verbal and a handshake. It is not a treat and clearly not binding.

The rationale provided for ending the exercises was :

“We will be stopping the war games, which will save us a tremendous amount of money unless and until we see the future negotiation is not going along like it should,” Trump said. “But we’ll be saving a tremendous amount of money. Plus, I think it’s very provocative.”

 

[HALL85]

In any long term business negotiations you set your objectives for the next meeting. This was a signed agreement that now needs to be transformed into an enforceable treaty that the Senate should have to sign off on. The next meeting with Pompeo and his Korean counterpart will start that process. It was a first step mission accomplished but there is still a lot to be done.

I do give cern bonus points for hanging on every word that CNN reported this morning.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

I despise Trump's tweets and cringe when he talks. But this is a good first step and is one that the past few Presidents could not accomplish. Have to give credit where credit is due.

I watched both CBS and ABC this morning just to see how they would cover this and it was amazing how little credit they gave and how they all whined about the war games being suspended which is not a big deal at all. With any negotiation there has to be give and take which is better than an all out war IMO and everyone with a brain knows this is just an initial first step. Dennis Rodman gave more credit to Trump on this issue than the MSM. Sad really and I can't stand Trump.

The MSM is proving you clearly don't have to give credit where credit is due. Unfortunately for the MSM, they are going to go so far left that they are going to push the people in the middle towards Trump by not being fair.

 

[PiratePride]

The MSM and Democrats in general are making a big mistake by piling on Trump at every turn. They are goaded by the Hollywood elite with their "F" Trump rhetoric. Don't think that sells well between the coasts. The mid terms will be interesting.

 

[knowknow456]

The MSM and Democrats in general are making a big mistake by piling on Trump at every turn. They are goaded by the Hollywood elite with their "F" Trump rhetoric. Don't think that sells well between the coasts. The mid terms will be interesting.

If the media portrayed President Trump in a more positive light, would people between the coasts be more inclined to vote against him?

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

If the media portrayed President Trump in a more positive light, would people between the coasts be more inclined to vote against him?

It’s very possible but that also depends on the nominee of the Democratic Party. If the MSM continues to push against Trump it will only cause people to see an injustice. People are tired of being told the opinions of the MSM and not facts.

 

[knowknow456]

[QUOTE="SHUHoopsFan, post: 515849, member: 734". People are tired of being told the opinions of the MSM and not facts.[/QUOTE]

And yet millions of people tune in each day.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

And yet millions of people tune in each day.

This is very common. I believe in the great movie Private Parts by Howard Stern we found out The average Stern fan listens for an hour and a half because they want to hear what he will say next. The average Stern hater will listen 2 and a half hours because they want to hear what he'll say next.

 

[knowknow456]

This is very common. I believe in the great movie Private Parts by Howard Stern we found out The average Stern fan listens for an hour and a half because they want to hear what he will say next. The average Stern hater will listen 2 and a half hours because they want to hear what he'll say next.

If this is true, than the minds of voters are not really being swayed. They self identify as a fan or a hater and react accordingly.

 

[Hall-line-forever]

What a difference a few years make Trump leveraged and displayed our power and got a pre-condition to nuclear disarmament

Obama goes to Cuba and Fidel not only doesn’t greet the weakling, but denounced him from his death bed while Obama was there.

USAgot nothing from the deal- no fugitives, no trade deals, etc

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

If this is true, than the minds of voters are not really being swayed. They self identify as a fan or a hater and react accordingly.

The question was what if they changed their coverage style? If they change their coverage style they may not view with the same demeanor and view it from a perspective that they can process and maybe be persuaded against Trump

 

[knowknow456]

The question was what if they changed their coverage style? If they change their coverage style they may not view with the same demeanor and view it from a perspective that they can process and maybe be persuaded against Trump

You already answered your question. People don't want nuanced coverage. They want to be entertained.

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

You already answered your question. People don't want nuanced coverage. They want to be entertained.

How do you know? Who says there wouldn't be a greater audience if there was down the middle reporting with limited opinions and tons more facts?

 

[knowknow456]

How do you know? Who says there wouldn't be a greater audience if there was down the middle reporting with limited opinions and tons more facts?

If a down the middle, facts only show was profitable, there would be more of them to choose from.

On a more practical note, today could be summed up (factually) as follows. "President Trump and Kim Jong Un met for the first time today in Singapore. They signed an agreement to talk some more." If you are a cable news show, how do you fill the other 23 hours, 59 minutes and 45 seconds of your day.?

 

[HALL85]

Actually I think in the grand scheme by taking these ridiculously polar positions, the MSM loses all of their credibility.

 

[HALL85]

If a down the middle, facts only show was profitable, there would be more of them to choose from.

On a more practical note, today could be summed up (factually) as follows. "President Trump and Kim Jong Un met for the first time today in Singapore. They signed an agreement to talk some more." If you are a cable news show, how do you fill the other 23 hours, 59 minutes and 45 seconds of your day.?

How about spending some time talking about each point of the agreement they signed.

 

[knowknow456]

• The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new U.S.–DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity.
  

• The United States and the DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula.

• 
  
• Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

The first three points stand as facts on their own merit. Everything from today forward is opinion since there is no way to know what happens next

The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified

Here I would be interested to know if the there are any available statistics - How many remains do we think can be recovered? How many remains are already identified?

How do you fill the remaining 23 hours and 57 minutes?

 

[HALL85]

• The United States and the DPRK commit to establish new U.S.–DPRK relations in accordance with the desire of the peoples of the two countries for peace and prosperity.

• The United States and the DPRK will join their efforts to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula.

• 
  
• Reaffirming the April 27, 2018 Panmunjom Declaration, the DPRK commits to work toward complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.

The first three points stand as facts on their own merit. Everything from today forward is opinion since there is no way to know what happens next

The United States and the DPRK commit to recovering POW/MIA remains, including the immediate repatriation of those already identified

Here I would be interested to know if the there are any available statistics - How many remains do we think can be recovered? How many remains are already identified?

How do you fill the remaining 23 hours and 57 minutes?

How about spending time discussing all sides of an issue. Turn on any cable MSM network and they take one side of an issue and if they bring someone with a differing view, the host shouts over or interrupts them. How about going deeper into each point? How many POW/MIA remains are there? Were there previous attempts? How do you go about recovering them? What do the families of these POW/MIA think?

It's not that hard....

 

[knowknow456]

Turn on any cable MSM network and they take one side of an issue

Issues and facts are not the same thing. You are watching opinion shows and you watch them for the same reason people listen to Howard Stern.

 

[PiratePride]

If the media portrayed President Trump in a more positive light, would people between the coasts be more inclined to vote against him?

I'm talking about tbe lack of objectivity here and obvious bias against anything the President does whether it helps the country or not. #resist doth not a platform make. It will hurt the Democrats. ThAT's my point. But I thi k you knew that.

 

[HALL85]

Issues and facts are not the same thing. You are watching opinion shows and you watch them for the same reason people listen to Howard Stern.

I don't watch them, and haven't in a long time...

 

[cernjSHU]

In any long term business negotiations you set your objectives for the next meeting. This was a signed agreement that now needs to be transformed into an enforceable treaty that the Senate should have to sign off on. The next meeting with Pompeo and his Korean counterpart will start that process. It was a first step mission accomplished but there is still a lot to be done.

I do give cern bonus points for hanging on every word that CNN reported this morning.

Sorry to break it to you. No talking points. Read the “agreement” which does nothing. It’s clear that it is an agreement of nothing. You can’t point to one thing that it does, except maybe the return of the remains of soldiers in the war. You all want to say that this is a good start. Really?

How is this for a prediction? In 5 years you will not see total “denuclearization” whatever the hell that is. Here is another. North Korea will have nuclear weapons through Ttump’s administration.

All of you are lemmings in the Republic of Trump. sad! (trying to speak your language)

 

[SHUHoopsFan]

If a down the middle, facts only show was profitable, there would be more of them to choose from.

On a more practical note, today could be summed up (factually) as follows. "President Trump and Kim Jong Un met for the first time today in Singapore. They signed an agreement to talk some more." If you are a cable news show, how do you fill the other 23 hours, 59 minutes and 45 seconds of your day.?

Actually I think people would love to see news anchors asking real questions to people on both sides. Not softball questions to the guests on their side and back and forth arguing with people on the other side. Unfortunately a show that lets the people make up their own mind is not what the sponsors want because they need to convince people to vote in the best interests of the sponsors.

 

[HALL85]

Sorry to break it to you. No talking points. Read the “agreement” which does nothing. It’s clear that it is an agreement of nothing. You can’t point to one thing that it does, except maybe the return of the remains of soldiers in the war. You all want to say that this is a good start. Really?

How is this for a prediction? In 5 years you will not see total “denuclearization” whatever the hell that is. Here is another. North Korea will have nuclear weapons through Ttump’s administration.

All of you are lemmings in the Republic of Trump. sad! (trying to speak your language)

cern, no offense, but you’ve lost your mind. No one is spiking the football on one meeting. “Lemmings?”....really?? You haven’t been paying any attention.

Hey, did Guantamo ever close?