Trump Laying Down The Law On Border

[HALL85]

90% have not received a notice. Of the 10% who have but failed to show up, did they miss a court date or are they actually missing?

I went back and corrected my statement. If someone has not received a notice, it’s probably because we don’t know where they are….hence missing.

Again, not saying there is zero risk here… but we have no idea why they missed a court date and suggesting that the 300k, are missing as in could have been trafficked is very misleading

But I didn’t mention before, it’s likely 300k is the low number. There are many more children that are smuggled in that are never intercepted. We have virtually an open border. We’re traffickers can move these kids in multiple ways without even getting caught.

That’s fine, but what is your suspicion based on?



Not sure what you’re asking.
Yes, if and when that happens it’s horrible. We should do what we can to limit the opportunity to smuggle anyone in.



Curtail their efforts? Naive to think of a cartel is making money trafficking people that they would stop because it’s harder. It’s more difficult to smuggle someone in today vs 20-30 years ago. They didn’t curtail their efforts because the incentive to make money is still there. Have to go after the cartels directly to make progress there.

We’ve made it easy for cartels to make a fortune, trafficking, children, women, and drugs. If you secure the border, intercept most of these attempts and prevent them from even getting to the border, if I were a cartel, I would probably direct my efforts in other directions to make money.

 

[Merge]

If someone has not received a notice, it’s probably because we don’t know where they are….hence missing.

That’s not what the OIG reports said (which is where this all originated from) you can read it instead of guessing.

But I didn’t mention before, it’s likely 300k is the low number. There are many more children that are smuggled in that are never intercepted.

Not saying it doesn’t exist, but trafficking worldwide is nowheVictims from Mexico are around 7% of that. Not insignificant, but no where near the narrative going around that these 300k kids were victims of trafficking.

We’ve made it easy for cartels to make a fortune, trafficking, children, women, and drugs. If you secure the border, intercept most of these attempts and prevent them from even getting to the border

The border getting more secure means it’s more difficult and the cartels can charge more. Cartels make more money the more secure the border is.

If there’s border were wide open, no one would be paying them to transport anything.

 

[HALL85]

That’s not what the OIG reports said (which is where this all originated from) you can read it instead of guessing.



Not saying it doesn’t exist, but trafficking worldwide is nowheVictims from Mexico are around 7% of that. Not insignificant, but no where near the narrative going around that these 300k kids were victims of trafficking.

It’s more than Mexicans being trafficked. What about other South/Central American countries? Have you seen the prostitution problems in Queens with illegals?

The border getting more secure means it’s more difficult and the cartels can charge more. Cartels make more money the more secure the border is.

If there’s border were wide open, no one would be paying them to transport anything.

This makes no sense. You can’t arbitrarily raise the fee on people that don’t have the means to pay.

And you’re conveniently taking the term “open border” to the extreme that no one is stopping anyone. The numbers don’t lie. Its a mess.

 

[Merge]

It’s more than Mexicans being trafficked. What about other South/Central American countries?

Again, not saying it’s not a problem. This started because you were talking about the 300k missing children you brought up. That had just popped up on my twitter feed beforehand and it sounded crazy so I looked into it.

This makes no sense. You can’t arbitrarily raise the fee on people that don’t have the means to pay.

And yet Cartels have been raising the price in recent years.

And you’re conveniently taking the term “open border” to the extreme that no one is stopping anyone. The numbers don’t lie. Its a mess.

It is a mess, that point we have agreed on many times. Biden has been to lenient in how to deal with an asylum request to where even when those being trafficked get caught, they can request asylum and we let them in. The trafficker still can face penalties, and they have been being arrested at a higher rate.

 

[Shaheton]

Not sure what demands you believe Trudeau agreed to?

The use of tariffs is good to encourage people buying American products instead of foreign products.

If Canada started dumping cheap products into the US and it was hurting manufacturing here, then a tariff makes sense to increase the price of Canadian products so the US could complete. That's not what is happening here though. Tariffs on goods from Canada would just raise the price of those goods to the consumer. The biggest thing we import from Canada is oil.

We wouldn't stop importing oil from Canada. It would just be more expensive to import it and consumers ultimately will pay those costs.

Biden failed on the boarder so I'll give Trump credit when he deserves it on immigration, but the cheerleading for tariffs is odd.
Tariffs on Mexican and Canadian imports do not make sense.

Why are you against tariffs? Oh never mind I know already
Drill drill drill = jobs

 

[Shaheton]

Again, not saying it’s not a problem. This started because you were talking about the 300k missing children you brought up. That had just popped up on my twitter feed beforehand and it sounded crazy so I looked into it.



And yet Cartels have been raising the price in recent years.



It is a mess, that point we have agreed on many times. Biden has been to lenient in how to deal with an asylum request to where even when those being trafficked get caught, they can request asylum and we let them in. The trafficker still can face penalties, and they have been being arrested at a higher rate.

MILLIONS entered this country illegally because: US is still the US, and because of Pres Biden admin’s policies. No big deal.

 

[Merge]

Why are you against tariffs? Oh never mind I know already
Drill drill drill = jobs

I'm not against tariffs. As I stated earlier, they are a tool that can make sense to protect industries in the US.
Placing a tariff that isn't aimed at protecting industries and jobs in the US will not make sense for our economy overall.

We are already drilling more than we ever have, so not sure what point you're making there.

 

[Merge]

MILLIONS entered this country illegally because: US is still the US, and because of Pres Biden admin’s policies. No big deal.

It is a big deal, and was the biggest failure of his term.
I've said that many times here.

 

[PiratePride]

MILLIONS entered this country illegally because: US is still the US, and because of Pres Biden admin’s policies. No big deal.

??????????????????

 

[Shaheton]

I'm not against tariffs. As I stated earlier, they are a tool that can make sense to protect industries in the US.
Placing a tariff that isn't aimed at protecting industries and jobs in the US will not make sense for our economy overall.

We are already drilling more than we ever have, so not sure what point you're making there.

That’s not what you said. You said cheerleading was odd (figuratively or literally, I don’t know) and you said it doesn’t make sense to impose tariffs on CAN and MEX.

As for drilling you noted that our biggest import from CAN was oil. Not sure what you meant by word your word biggest. Either way tarrifs on CAN and MEX will certainly drive up price for their goods and as a result create opportunity here

 

[Merge]

That’s not what you said. You said cheerleading was odd

It is odd. It’s just political tribalism. People cheerleading for tariffs because Trump says they’re good, but really have no idea what a tariff is.

As for drilling you noted that our biggest import from CAN was oil. Not sure what you meant by word your word biggest.

We import goods from Canada, about a third of which is oil. That is the largest import from Canada.

Either way tarrifs on CAN and MEX will certainly drive up price for their goods and as a result create opportunity here

You’re rooting for inflation. The infrastructure and demand for Canadian oil is already here. We’re not going to stop importing and if the price goes up, consumers pay the cost. That’s not going to create any opportunity here. Canada also imports oil from the US, it’s a trade partnership where we both benefit.

A tariff on Canada’s oil will only increase cost to the importers. That’s it.

And placing a tariff on goods from Mexico is also absurd. We’ve been pushing Mexico as the manufacturing alternative to China. We want that relationship to grow to reduce our reliance on China, while encouraging growth of the economy in Mexico so people in Mexico and other South American countries can find work there instead of illegally crossing the border to the US. Placing a tariff on Mexico would directly hurt that cause.

 

[HALL85]

Again, not saying it’s not a problem. This started because you were talking about the 300k missing children you brought up. That had just popped up on my twitter feed beforehand and it sounded crazy so I looked into it.



And yet Cartels have been raising the price in recent years.



It is a mess, that point we have agreed on many times. Biden has been to lenient in how to deal with an asylum request to where even when those being trafficked get caught, they can request asylum and we let them in. The trafficker still can face penalties, and they have been being arrested at a higher rate.

merge, good piece from NN on minors and trafficking. 526K under Biden which is 2 and 3X the annual numbers from Obama and Trump. Interesting point in the story is although total apprehensions have dropped in recent months, minors have not.

This really shows the failure of Biden and how bad specifically the problem with minors.

https://www.newsnationnow.com/the-h...nt-children-how-many-are-crossing-the-border/

 

[Merge]

This really shows the failure of Biden and how bad specifically the problem with minors.

Right, it is a problem.
Kind of makes sense why we wouldn’t so many haven’t been sent a notice for a court date though, right?
With the large influx, it would be administratively far more difficult to get through all of the cases without additional manpower.

Again, not saying there is zero risk to these kids. Was just saying that the claims popping up that these kids were all missing were very misleading.

What to do with unaccompanied minors showing up is another issue altogether. My assumption based on what I have read to date is that migrants are being coached on how to get into and stay in the US. Unaccompanied minors are not returned to their home country because of the risk of trafficking, so we allow them to stay in the US and release to a sponsor. The parents come in separately because it's easier to reunite families inside the country where if they came in together it would be more likely that we would block the entire family.

The answer on how to deal with the problem of unaccompanied minors would be easy to deal with if we can ignore the humanitarian issues in their home countries, though clearly our compassion for the children is being taken advantage of as well. We need the deterrent that we are not as "welcoming" as we have been under Biden for sure, but that doesn't really solve the humanitarian aspects of the issue.

 

[HALL85]

We don’t know the number of children that are missing, but we know how many have been apprehended which is in the hundreds of thousands. What about the hundreds of thousands that have not been apprehended? It’s a huge problem. It’s gotten worse, and the cartels are behind it.

We can’t fix the humanitarian issues in their native countries. We can eliminate the incentive though.

 

[knowknow456]

Have you seen the prostitution problems in Queens with illegals?

I haven't but it's good to know you have.

 

[Merge]

We can eliminate the incentive though.

Not on our own, we can't. The cartels will still see the demand of people wanting to flee and they will still be trafficking them here.
If we don't find a way to reduce demand, we may be strengthening our border, but didn't really do anything for the humanitarian part. If people are desperate, they will find a way to come here. You would do the same if you were in their shoes.

I appreciate the concern about the hundreds of thousands of kids who have come here, but it's not like the alternative was better for them.

 

[HALL85]

Not on our own, we can't. The cartels will still see the demand of people wanting to flee and they will still be trafficking them here.

If the border is secure their ability to traffic will be significantly reduced.

If we don't find a way to reduce demand, we may be strengthening our border, but didn't really do anything for the humanitarian part. If people are desperate, they will find a way to come here. You would do the same if you were in their shoes.

Or they will go to other countries or rise up against oppression and corruption in their native countries. Are we supposed to send more money to corrupt governments and hope it changes things?

I appreciate the concern about the hundreds of thousands of kids who have come here, but it's not like the alternative was better for them.

We don’t know that.

And does it make a difference if a child is sold into prostitution in the US or their native country?

 

[Merge]

If the border is secure their ability to traffic will be significantly reduced.

But not eliminated like you said.
The demand and incentive is directly related to how bad things are in their home country. If things get worse, demand goes up. If things get better, demand goes down.

Are we supposed to send more money to corrupt governments and hope it changes things?

Doesn’t have to be a blank check. Money based on results, and tax breaks for us companies investing in counties that need help for example.

And does it make a difference if a child is sold into prostitution in the US or their native country?

The risks to the minors is far greater outside the US than inside.

If your concern is the kids, sending them back would not improve their outcomes. There is a reason they were fleeing.

 

[HALL85]

But not eliminated like you said.
The demand and incentive is directly related to how bad things are in their home country. If things get worse, demand goes up. If things get better, demand goes down.

I said significantly reduced, which having a secure border and more stringent policies would accomplish. And aren’t you talking about supply rather than demand?

Doesn’t have to be a blank check. Money based on results, and tax breaks for us companies investing in counties that need help for example.

Companies already do that. Mexico’s number one export is automobiles; U.S. companies that opened plants there.

The risks to the minors is far greater outside the US than inside.

If your concern is the kids, sending them back would not improve their outcomes. There is a reason they were fleeing.

You don’t know that. You can make an argument that Trafficking a child into the U.S. for prostitution purposes is actually worse than living in poverty with their family.

 

[PiratePride]

I said significantly reduced, which having a secure border and more stringent policies would accomplish. And aren’t you talking about supply rather than demand?

Companies already do that. Mexico’s number one export is automobiles; U.S. companies that opened plants there.

You don’t know that. You can make an argument that Trafficking a child into the U.S. for prostitution purposes is actually worse than living in poverty with their family.

The Great Debates..... Hall85 v Merge....... doesn't get any better.... the way it should be

 

[Merge]

I said significantly reduced

You said

We can eliminate the incentive though.

^ We can't eliminate incentive with our border policy. We can make it harder for them to get here, and we can make it harder for them to stay when they do get here but again, that does not help the humanitarian issues. That's why I appreciate arguments which are concerned about the children trafficked here, but the alternative is not being poor in Honduras, it's facing worse conditions in Honduras. They're not fleeing poverty. They are fleeing extreme poverty and violence.

Companies already do that. Mexico’s number one export is automobiles; U.S. companies that opened plants there.

Right, we have been investing and encouraging others to invest in Mexico, and that's why migration from Mexicans has been decreasing. We need a strong economy in Mexico to limit the reason why people want to come to the US, and we also need them to help absorb migrants from other countries as well. We need to find the same opportunities in Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvadore, etc. while targeting corruption in those countries as well so there is less and less of a reason why people risk their life to come to the US.

You can make an argument that Trafficking a child into the U.S. for prostitution purposes is actually worse than living in poverty with their family.

Sure, that's an argument you could make. You'd be wrong, but you can argue it.
Really lacks an understanding of why people are fleeing, and what their life would be like if we sent them back instead of releasing to a sponsor.

 

[HALL85]

You said

I said eliminate the incentive not eliminate all illegal crossings. If the border is secure and policy is in place, it eliminates the incentive that exists today.

^ We can't eliminate incentive with our border policy. We can make it harder for them to get here, and we can make it harder for them to stay when they do get here but again, that does not help the humanitarian issues. That's why I appreciate arguments which are concerned about the children trafficked here, but the alternative is not being poor in Honduras, it's facing worse conditions in Honduras. They're not fleeing poverty. They are fleeing extreme poverty and violence.

But our system is not set up to accept millions of people that claim asylum. Historically, we have had an immigration system that worked that accepted people that followed the system and for those to claim asylum. But the numbers had limitations. Why not just continue with that?

Right, we have been investing and encouraging others to invest in Mexico, and that's why migration from Mexicans has been decreasing. We need a strong economy in Mexico to limit the reason why people want to come to the US, and we also need them to help absorb migrants from other countries as well. We need to find the same opportunities in Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvadore, etc. while targeting corruption in those countries as well so there is less and less of a reason why people risk their life to come to the US.

That’s a nice pipe dream. It would be great if every central American country had a strong economy, but that’s not reality. Do you think these countries want us to interfere to fix their corruption?

Sure, that's an argument you could make. You'd be wrong, but you can argue it.
Really lacks an understanding of why people are fleeing, and what their life would be like if we sent them back instead of releasing to a sponsor.

It’s only the wrong argument because you’re disagree with it. Cartels give a family the incentive to essentially buy their child and sell them into prostitution in the U.S.. if that opportunity was significantly diminished, their wouldn’t be much of a market for these children.