War on Christianity

[shu09]

I definitely see your point of view. For example, I've seen a lot of talk on twitter criticizing Kamala Harris for being a prosecutor at all, and some are attacking her for threatening parents who weren't sending their kids to school with jail time, even though no parents actually went to jail and chronic truancy declined after she did that. A journalist went after Booker because his first ad didn't include anything about climate change.

I am worried that the primary will become a purity test for the most "progressive" candidate and it does seem to be that so far. I want to see disagreement among the candidates and an honest discussion about differences in policy views. I'm disappointed Howard Schultz went with being an independent rather than getting into the pool of democrats and offering up his vision as an alternative within the democratic party.

That said, what did all of that reasonable discussion and willingness to compromise actually do for the democrats other than let republicans win a lot of elections.
Talk radio and TV shows convinced people on the right that offering up Mitt Romney's healthcare plan was a socialist takeover. I would prefer messages that offer honesty and unity from democrats, but unfortunately I think we have seen that is a losing political strategy. Fear and hate works.

You're certainly not wrong. Here's my thing re: Harris -- She SHOULD campaign on her law experience, plus being a senator. She is certainly a smart individual. But the media will turn her candidacy into it being a black woman first and foremost. That's what sells these days and the media eats it up. Eventually (and sadly), her campaign strategists will realize that as well. That's what needs to change in this country.

I don't care if you're black, white, etc. I don't care if you're a man or a woman, if you're gay or straight. Just show me what you've done and how you plan on going about being president. Your racial and/or ethnic background should have little, if anything, to do with it. That's where this country is going down the wrong road. Too focused on identity, manufactured racial issues and not on results

 

[Abbo71]

What a week for the Liberal Agenda.

1)First Mike Pence's wife is lambasted for working at a Christian School. One CNN rep suggested that Secret Service protection for her should be removed because of her values. ( https://americanlookout.com/cnns-jo...ction-because-of-her-christian-beliefs-video/

2)Minimal coverage of the Anti-Abortion rally

3) Running a smear campaign against some catholic high school kids wearing Maga Hats and never really apologizing.

This is an insane time. At what point do we stand up for our values against the onslaught of the leftist news media? The Left wants everyone to look diverse but think the same.

This is nothing new. It has been going on for a long time. Christion, especially Catholic Schools

What a week for the Liberal Agenda.

1)First Mike Pence's wife is lambasted for working at a Christian School. One CNN rep suggested that Secret Service protection for her should be removed because of her values. ( https://americanlookout.com/cnns-jo...ction-because-of-her-christian-beliefs-video/

2)Minimal coverage of the Anti-Abortion rally

3) Running a smear campaign against some catholic high school kids wearing Maga Hats and never really apologizing.

This is an insane time. At what point do we stand up for our values against the onslaught of the leftist news media? The Left wants everyone to look diverse but think the same.

This is nothing new. Christian Schools, especially Catholic Schools have a bullseye on their backs.

What a week for the Liberal Agenda.

1)First Mike Pence's wife is lambasted for working at a Christian School. One CNN rep suggested that Secret Service protection for her should be removed because of her values. ( https://americanlookout.com/cnns-jo...ction-because-of-her-christian-beliefs-video/

2)Minimal coverage of the Anti-Abortion rally

3) Running a smear campaign against some catholic high school kids wearing Maga Hats and never really apologizing.

This is an insane time. At what point do we stand up for our values against the onslaught of the leftist news media? The Left wants everyone to look diverse but think the same.

 

[Abbo71]

1. You're right. Media was way too harsh on his wife... though I am sure this administration is thrilled to turn the narrative away from the longest shutdown in our country's history over a wall the president promised Mexico would pay for, to Christians being attacked.

2. how is that an attack?

3. I barely ever watch the news but I saw corrections on the story to give a better picture on what happened.

You should stand up for your values. Nothing wrong with that at all.
Jesus said it best I guess.
Love your neighbors but you must deny access to lean at our schools if a child's parents are homosexuals. Also, build a wall on your borders to avoid having to look at those escaping persecution and seeking asylum

I think the branding is off for Christians right now. Probably would be less criticism of Christians if Christian values were closer to the teachings of Christ.

Would the liberal dems do a better job of adhering to the values of Christ?

 

[Abbo71]

Here is a short article that talks to the original thread title.
https://nypost.com/2019/01/28/cardinal-dolan-why-are-cuomo-democrats-alienating-catholics/

I think its hard right now for the Catholic church to take a stand on anything with the scandal ongoing but they need to continue to take stands on certain issues and clean up their act at the same time.

The most recent NY abortion law championed by Cuomo is a tremendous travesty allowing abortions up to the due date. It's amazing with the technology we have now to do blood transfusions on a fetus, to keep a fetus alive and thriving at very early stages etc. And to have NY celebrate that law and change the colors on the Empire State building that will allow more babies to get killed is just awful IMO. I am all for women's rights and protecting the mother. The fact is we have the medical know how and technology to do both now and aborting a baby at full term is simply disgusting and so many celebrated it. Sad where our country is going. You can deliver a baby at 24 weeks and keep that baby alive and live a full life - I've experienced it in my family with my niece.

"According to the New York State Department of Health, 285,127 induced abortions occurred in the state between 2012 and 2014. The average number of live births for the same three years was 237,499."

I'm all for protecting the rights of people who need protections the most. For example, I say protect the Dreamers and give them full citizenship - it's a no brainer to me. Get em on the books paying taxes too. But making abortions legal up to the due date under the guise of protecting the mother is very, very sad and no one is protecting those babies that are living human beings. The statistics above speak for themselves and now the first number quoted will rise. Sometimes it will be to protect the mother and other times protecting the mother will be an excuse to abort and they will be protected.

And the press and NY politicians believe the Catholic church has it wrong in this case because it came out strongly against this law??? This is one example where the church has it right and it's not even close. And frankly I'm not sure why this is even a religious issue - maybe because the church is against it. It's really a humanity issue IMO whether you are religious or not.

Great post 100%

 

[Merge]

Would the liberal dems do a better job of adhering to the values of Christ?

Sometimes, yes.

 

[Section112]

Neither political side is doing a good job of sticking to any values frankly.

 

[Merge]

Neither political side is doing a good job of sticking to any values frankly.

I dont disagree. While I dont think Jesus would be a Democrat or Republican, I do think much of what defines me as liberal is in line with what Jesus would teach if he were here today.

 

[shuvrp]

Imagine being so insecure and beholden to propaganda you think there's a war on Christianity in a country with 80% Christians.

Even in New York, you can't go outside in December without being blinded by Christmas lights. Not that i have a problem with that; it just points out the absurdity of the "war of christmas" snowflakes.

 

[Abbo71]

Sometimes, yes.

Really?

 

[Merge]

Really?

Sometimes, yes.

 

[Abbo71]

Of course it's politics. I just see no incentive for Pelosi to play the game.
Trump was blamed for the shutdown, will be blamed if it happens again. If he doesn't get the wall, his base will turn on him. If he declares a national emergency - I think most reasonable people will see this as an overreach.

Her option to "play" along would be to offer something too big in return that Trump could reject saying she was being unreasonable. Sometimes the only winning move is not to play.

Did most people see it as an overreach when Obama used Executive Orders?

 

[Merge]

Did most people see it as an overreach when Obama used Executive Orders?

An executive order is not a declaration of national emergency. Trump can't fund the wall without congressional approval so an executive order wouldn't work, but it times of actual national emergencies the president would have the power to direct funding towards that emergency. Though, the National Emergencies Act was not meant to be a political tool and is still subject to congressional oversight. A case needs to be made that this is in fact a national emergency, and there really isn't much to support that idea considering that illegal immigration has been on the decline and most of it is from visa overstays anyway. Also remember that there is likely to be a democratic president again in the near future. I don't think you want to give them a free pass to do whatever they want either.

Also, worth noting that the number of executive orders per year under Obama was the lowest number since Grover Cleveland 140 years ago... All president's use executive orders, but I can guess why you take issue with Obama's...

Make no mistake though. This fight is 100% politics.
I don't believe any of them really care about a wall. GOP just wants to keep Trump's base happy and Dems just want that base to start to turn on Trump.

 

[Belluno]

Imagine being so insecure and beholden to propaganda you think there's a war on Christianity in a country with 80% Christians.

Even in New York, you can't go outside in December without being blinded by Christmas lights. Not that i have a problem with that; it just points out the absurdity of the "war of christmas" snowflakes.

That's Santa Claus, son. Not Jesus Christ

 

[donnie_baseball]

It is barbaric to me as well, but conversely, it would also be barbaric to force a woman to carry an nonviable fetus to term when there is a better option available.

Barbaric like having your limbs torn from your body barbaric, your skull punctured and the contents aspirated barbaric? Give us a frame of reference.

The slippery slope is that the NY law cites "mothers' health" in purposely vague language. Could we see a third trimester abortion because a 36 week woman is depressed, anxious, or claims to be?

 

[seton1996]

Imagine being so insecure and beholden to propaganda you think there's a war on Christianity in a country with 80% Christians.

Even in New York, you can't go outside in December without being blinded by Christmas lights. Not that i have a problem with that; it just points out the absurdity of the "war of christmas" snowflakes.

Never mix up Christmas lights, or even private or public displays of Christmas with Christianity. I know many people of other faiths that celebrate Christmas, but people are celebrating Christmas trees, Santa and presents, not Jesus or Christian values.

 

[Merge]

Barbaric like having your limbs torn from your body barbaric, your skull punctured and the contents aspirated barbaric? Give us a frame of reference.

The slippery slope is that the NY law cites "mothers' health" in purposely vague language. Could we see a third trimester abortion because a 36 week woman is depressed, anxious, or claims to be?

Right, I get that. I'd be on board with a viability clause that says a doctor must attempt to deliver a viable child.
I think the health exception is vague but probably intentional to protect medical professionals as well as women having an abortion from potential legal issues.

 

[shuvrp]

That's Santa Claus, son. Not Jesus Christ

Never mix up Christmas lights, or even private or public displays of Christmas with Christianity. I know many people of other faiths that celebrate Christmas, but people are celebrating Christmas trees, Santa and presents, not Jesus or Christian values.

The comment you are replying to has two seperate paragraphs. A paragraph is a literary device that seperates ideas, since you both seemed to miss that lesson.

Both the "War on Christianity" and the "War on Christmas" are made up fantasies meant to whip up fear and hostility.

In terms of the war on Christianity, there are over 350,000 Christian churches in America and not a single one pays taxes. The 115th congress, sworn in right before President Trump in 2017, was a whopping 91% Christian! When was the last time we had a President who wasn't a professed Christian? If there's a war on Christianity, it's failing miserably. Jesus is thriving in America

 

[afghan whigs]

Seems like your still blinded by the Christmas lights, that have nothing to do with Christianity.

 

[Merge]

Seems like your still blinded by the Christmas lights, that have nothing to do with Christianity.

You better not tell me I have bedn putting up "Holiday" lights all these years!

 

[donnie_baseball]

The comment you are replying to has two seperate paragraphs. A paragraph is a literary device that seperates ideas, since you both seemed to miss that lesson.

Both the "War on Christianity" and the "War on Christmas" are made up fantasies meant to whip up fear and hostility.

In terms of the war on Christianity, there are over 350,000 Christian churches in America and not a single one pays taxes. The 115th congress, sworn in right before President Trump in 2017, was a whopping 91% Christian! When was the last time we had a President who wasn't a professed Christian? If there's a war on Christianity, it's failing miserably. Jesus is thriving in America

First of all, get off it about the taxes. Most of my experience is with the Catholic Church, and I see the ministries and the volunteerism in my one parish in my one corner of NJ. So the magnitude of the works done by all the denominations and faiths in the US and abroad is unfathomable, moreso to you.

If you and anyone who cries about the exempt status of any religious organization (including alma mater) want to pick up the slack -- and by slack I mean that almost all of the works of charity, percentage-wise, are done by members of these religions -- then by all means have at it. But you don't. And you won't. So leave it alone, unless you're willing to pony up your time, talent, and treasure to the homeless, the hungry, the pregnant and alone, the mentally ill, etc.

The fact that Christianity is, and has been, the most common religion in the US has nothing to do with assertions that Christians and their traditions have been in the crosshairs of non-Christians, the non-religious, and Christians in name only.

For instance:
The ACLU has made a cottage industry of litigation against municipalities who display Christmas decorations of one kind or another. They are also involved in the effort to remove a large Maryland war memorial that has a cross;
Multiple Christmastime billboards and bus adverts exist (many in our own metropolitan area) with the sole purpose of deriding believers in general, and Christians in particular;
Actual destruction of two (that I know of) stone carvings of the Ten Commandments (possibly anti-Semitic, too);
Formation of the Satanic Temple, an atheist group which cleverly operates as a "religion," and seeks to place statues of the demonic next to traditional Christian edifices;
My own suburban church had an instance of attempted arson, and has scaled back it's "24/7" open door policy to 6am-9pm;
My own church has a life chain annually in the Fall, and in participating, you understand that you will be verbally assaulted, and possibly be on the receiving end of a projectile, including being spit upon.

I agree that the "war on Christmas" is overdone and sensationalistic, but dismissing it out of hand glosses over a lot of hate.

Finally, if you're going to criticize sentence structure, you better make sure that you spell "separate" correctly, twice.

 

[cernjSHU]

If you and anyone who cries about the exempt status of any religious organization (including alma mater) want to pick up the slack -- and by slack I mean that almost all of the works of charity, percentage-wise, are done by members of these religions -- then by all means have at it. But you don't. And you won't. So leave it alone, unless you're willing to pony up your time, talent, and treasure to the homeless, the hungry, the pregnant and alone, the mentally ill, etc..

Do you really mean any religious organization? The Church of Scientology? How they received tax exempt status is a crime.

 

[donnie_baseball]

Do you really mean any religious organization? The Church of Scientology? How they received tax exempt status is a crime.

I meant any legitimate religious organization, obviously. I will leave legitimacy to the reader.

 

[shuvrp]

First of all, get off it about the taxes. Most of my experience is with the Catholic Church, and I see the ministries and the volunteerism in my one parish in my one corner of NJ. So the magnitude of the works done by all the denominations and faiths in the US and abroad is unfathomable, moreso to you.

If you and anyone who cries about the exempt status of any religious organization (including alma mater) want to pick up the slack -- and by slack I mean that almost all of the works of charity, percentage-wise, are done by members of these religions -- then by all means have at it. But you don't. And you won't. So leave it alone, unless you're willing to pony up your time, talent, and treasure to the homeless, the hungry, the pregnant and alone, the mentally ill, etc.

You just wasted two paragraphs countering a point I never made. Not once did I claim to be against churches being exempt, I merely stated the fact. Please re-read my comment.

The ACLU has made a cottage industry of litigation against municipalities who display Christmas decorations of one kind or another. They are also involved in the effort to remove a large Maryland war memorial that has a cross;
Multiple Christmastime billboards and bus adverts exist (many in our own metropolitan area) with the sole purpose of deriding believers in general, and Christians in particular;
Actual destruction of two (that I know of) stone carvings of the Ten Commandments (possibly anti-Semitic, too);
Formation of the Satanic Temple, an atheist group which cleverly operates as a "religion," and seeks to place statues of the demonic next to traditional Christian edifices;
My own suburban church had an instance of attempted arson, and has scaled back it's "24/7" open door policy to 6am-9pm;
My own church has a life chain annually in the Fall, and in participating, you understand that you will be verbally assaulted, and possibly be on the receiving end of a projectile, including being spit upon.

1) Seems like standard separation of church and state interpretation issues. I think removing statues are dumb, but that does not constitute a "WAR".
2) I work in Newark and have not seen a single derisive billboard against Christianity, if I did i would ignore it as meaningless.
3) Source? Where? What?
4) The Satanic Temple is a fringe cult with no power - certainly not enough power to win a "WAR" against Christianity.
5) That's terrible, I apologize some idiot tried to commit arson on your church - but again, this is not proof of a "WAR."
6) I don't know what a life chain is but I'm sorry people don't respect your freedom of speech, seems like more of a lack of respect and understanding of the first amendment than a "WAR on Christianity."

You mention inconveniences and 0.01% fringe idiots as evidence of "WAR" against Christianity but you forget to mention Christians are over-represented (88% of congress is Christian, 75-80% of public is Christian) in government. Every single President except Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Johnson (unaffiliated) have been Christian. Christianity is under no threat and will continue to thrive in this country for the foreseeable future. If there is a "WAR" against Christianity, it will fail miserably.

One of the problems in this society is the media's attempt to turn everything into a "WAR." The right does it and the left does it. This extreme rhetoric foments anger and confusion for no reason, while facts and reason are thrown out the window.

Finally, if you're going to criticize sentence structure, you better make sure that you spell "separate" correctly, twice.

I didn't criticize anyone's sentence structure. Please re-read my comment and I will improve my spelling.

 

[donnie_baseball]

You just wasted two paragraphs countering a point I never made. Not once did I claim to be against churches being exempt, I merely stated the fact. Please re-read my comment.



1) Seems like standard separation of church and state interpretation issues. I think removing statues are dumb, but that does not constitute a "WAR".
2) I work in Newark and have not seen a single derisive billboard against Christianity, if I did i would ignore it as meaningless.
3) Source? Where? What?
4) The Satanic Temple is a fringe cult with no power - certainly not enough power to win a "WAR" against Christianity.
5) That's terrible, I apologize some idiot tried to commit arson on your church - but again, this is not proof of a "WAR."
6) I don't know what a life chain is but I'm sorry people don't respect your freedom of speech, seems like more of a lack of respect and understanding of the first amendment than a "WAR on Christianity."

You mention inconveniences and 0.01% fringe idiots as evidence of "WAR" against Christianity but you forget to mention Christians are over-represented (88% of congress is Christian, 75-80% of public is Christian) in government. Every single President except Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Johnson (unaffiliated) have been Christian. Christianity is under no threat and will continue to thrive in this country for the foreseeable future. If there is a "WAR" against Christianity, it will fail miserably.

One of the problems in this society is the media's attempt to turn everything into a "WAR." The right does it and the left does it. This extreme rhetoric foments anger and confusion for no reason, while facts and reason are thrown out the window.



I didn't criticize anyone's sentence structure. Please re-read my comment and I will improve my spelling.

So what was the point of stating that churches pay no property tax? It seems superfluous at best -- certainly common knowledge.

OK so if "war" is overstating it (I believe it is), you might be guilty of underestimating it. The acts of hate against religion and the religious are real, and less uncommon than in the past, whether perpetrated by a "fringe" or not.

To address the rest:
"Standard" separation of church and state has really overstepped the establishment clause
I saw them in NYC and on the 495 entrance to the Lincoln tunnel. Meaningless? Maybe. Hateful? Yes.
Google. Oklahoma. Arkansas. Same nut.
They're not a cult, since no one really believes in Satan, it is a front for a group of anti-Christians who want the same rights and benefits of a legitimate religion
Thank you
It's a silent protest of the legalization of Roe v. Wade

I suspect we agree on more than we disagree on. I for one, have never used the term "WAR" to describe acts of hate and bias against Christians, but we can't be dismissive those acts, just because a religion is the largest. I agree with you about the over-representation, and believe it is slowly changing.

Noted re: paragraph v. sentence structure.​

 

[shuvrp]

So what was the point of stating that churches pay no property tax? It seems superfluous at best -- certainly common knowledge.

OK so if "war" is overstating it (I believe it is), you might be guilty of underestimating it. The acts of hate against religion and the religious are real, and less uncommon than in the past, whether perpetrated by a "fringe" or not.

To address the rest:
"Standard" separation of church and state has really overstepped the establishment clause
I saw them in NYC and on the 495 entrance to the Lincoln tunnel. Meaningless? Maybe. Hateful? Yes.
Google. Oklahoma. Arkansas. Same nut.
They're not a cult, since no one really believes in Satan, it is a front for a group of anti-Christians who want the same rights and benefits of a legitimate religion
Thank you
It's a silent protest of the legalization of Roe v. Wade

I suspect we agree on more than we disagree on. I for one, have never used the term "WAR" to describe acts of hate and bias against Christians, but we can't be dismissive those acts, just because a religion is the largest. I agree with you about the over-representation, and believe it is slowly changing.

Noted re: paragraph v. sentence structure.​

Taxing the church would be the easiest way to wage war if some anti-christian faction were to take hold of the government. Money is power in this society. The fact they aren't taxed is another piece of evidence - arguably superfluous - there isn't a war against them.

This is a hot-button topic for me as some in my family are ultra religous and have this victim-complex about being Christian. Always leads to debates as I'm more Agnostic. (I do respect the teachings of Jesus and try to adhere to them while failing miserably most of the time; i spent most of my childhood reading/studying the bible, i just don't believe in the supernatural stuff). You may be right that i underestimate the animosity but i never claimed it didn't exist.

Seems we are mostly in agreeance.