Many democrats say we have to get the top 1% and 5% to pay their fare share of federal taxes without indicating what amount they should pay..the top 1% pay 40 % and the top 5% pay 60% of the total federal income tax which seems to me more than fair.Perhaps the Dems think it should be 70% or even 100%.I am sure some of these economically challenged pols actually know these numbers so refuse to be specific assuming most Dems don’t know the % so they can lie about it .Maybe some of the Blue posters can tell me what Dems want the top group to pay.Crazy Bernie has not gotten that far in his quest to conquer Eco 101.Socialists never like to debate economics with anyone who has knowledge since it exposes their ignorance.
What is fair share top 1% and 5% should pay in federal taxes
- Thread starter ed odowd
- Start date
There is a problem with the tax system. Let's take 2 people. Each make $10 million a year. First guy, plays baseball for the Yankees. This guy is in the top income tax bracket of 37% for most of his salary and then on top of that has to pay state income tax. Guy number 2 makes his money off his stock market investments. He only pays capital gains on that income which is 20%. Why are people who make the same amount of income treated so radically different for tax purposes? It has been widely reported that the uber wealthy like Warren Buffet pay an effective tax rate under 15%. This is unfair. Buffett proposed a rule that anyone making over $1 million pay 30% of that in income. The more wealthy you are, the more ability you have to avoid taxes. That is why the focus is on the 1%.
People who earn high wages get screwed by paying a disproportional amount of income as opposed to those who make their money off the market.
People who earn high wages get screwed by paying a disproportional amount of income as opposed to those who make their money off the market.
You're getting close to 50% when you include state of NY or NJ taxes for those top earners.
We should encourage stock market investing, not deter it. Capital gains tax rates should be as low as possible.
A
anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
Guest
We should also encourage people to be fiscally responsible by saving money, but you get close to 0% for saving money right now. Insanity.
It doesn't matter what the tax rate is if Congress keeps spending money and raising the debt limit with no guardrails.
Unless we reduce the deficit ($3T in 2021), no tax scheme will make up the shortfall.
Total Debt now at $28T. Projected to be $78T by 2028.
Complaining that the rich don't pay enough taxes is akin to passengers on the Titanic complaining that the 1st class dining room has better food than 3rd class.
Total Debt now at $28T. Projected to be $78T by 2028.
Complaining that the rich don't pay enough taxes is akin to passengers on the Titanic complaining that the 1st class dining room has better food than 3rd class.
Last edited:
A
anon_ezos2e9wn1ob0
Guest
I invest plenty, will max out my 401k contribution for the 2nd straight year. I also save a huge amount, my savings account should not be making 0%.
Call up Jerome Powell and ask him to change the rates. See how that works out.
Why don't you invest that money in your savings account? That'd be the first thing I'd do in your scenario....
Keeping any significant amount of money in a savings account is just not the right thing to do. That is just dead money. Get yourself a brokerage account and invest it. If you are risk adverse, invest in an S&P 500 fund. If you need money, then sell what you need.
For the risk adverse, you can get close to 9% on USDC which is pegged to the USD right now on a few platforms.
The guy who makes 10 million this year on the market may have lost 6 million last year. So when he pays 2 million on the 10 million after losing 6 million the year before he actually paid 50% in taxes. Remember he can only write off 2,000 dollars of his loses per year. It’s like going to the casino and winning 100,000 and having to pay taxes but that doesn’t take into account the previous 10 trips where you lost an average of $5000 per trip. Casino doesn’t say well you lost 50,000 this past year so we will minus that from the 100,000 you won before we tax you. Nobody wins all the time!
just put an end to tax loopholes like offshore accounts and appraising modern art for an arbitrary number and taking thebwrite off when donating to a museum
there are some ideals that make sense.
what we really need is "play by the same rules"
guys will get 50 years for stealing $30 but a 1% will get nothing fir grifting millions.
How about we simplify the tax laws instead of having all these so-called loopholes which are really just purposely put in place laws fomented by various lobbyists that were favored at one time or another by the lawmakers, including ones who now slam them as loopholes?
Evil Donald Trump started doing just that.
He greatly limited deductions like charitble contribution, state and local taxes.
My tax return got much simpler after his tax plan was implemented.
It also had the effect of not subsidizing states with outrageous real estate and income taxes like New Jersey.
Flat tax proposed by Goldwater,Forbes etc. is the answer but pols don’t want it because they will lose campaign contributions.
I hear ya
that’s how it was supposed to be …the concep was that capital gain would really just stay with the investment….invest in a co and you don’t get penalized for doing so
but investors have found those loopholes
I’m not against those loopholes
First, The market is not a casino. The market has gone up over 100 years. Good companies go up and bad companies go down. The guy who lost money can write off the same amount on any gains he had that year. It’s only when he had no gains is there a limitation of what can be written off. In reality, anyone with any type of money offsets their losses in the market with a gain. And that is dollar for dollar.
Second, the guy who lost 6 million only really has a loss if he sells his shares. Otherwise, that loss is not real. For example, during the Great Recession, people lost 30 to 50% of their stock value. But if they did not cash out, they actually did not lose that money and most likely made it all back up during the next few years.
third, I am all in favor of investing and making money. However, the tax laws were written for the uber wealthy to take advantage. If you think someone who is a billionaire should pay less of a percentage than you or I and then enjoy all the power and influence they have over government policy, then I fundamentally disagree with you on that concept.
The tax laws were actually written to punish the wealthy but through their financial acumen, they are able to find loopholes. The taxes end up just get pushed on to the middle and lower classes. From Robert Kiyosaki:
- originally, in England and America, there were no taxes. ... Although it was intended to punish the rich, in reality it wound up punishing the very people who voted for it, the poor and middle class. ... The problem was that the government’s appetite for money was so great that taxes soon needed to be levied on the middle class, and from there it kept trickling down.
- The rich created the corporation as a vehicle to limit their risk... It is the knowledge of the legal corporate structure that really gives the rich a vast advantage over the poor and the middle class. A corporation is merely a legal document that creates a legal body without a soul. Using it, the wealth of the rich was once again protected. It was popular because the income-tax rate of a corporation is less than the individual income-tax rates.
- Every time people try to punish the rich, the rich don’t simply comply. They react. They have the money, power, and intent to change things. They don’t just sit there and voluntarily pay more taxes. Instead, they search for ways to minimize their tax burden. They hire smart attorneys and accountants, and persuade politicians to change laws or create legal loopholes. They use their resources to effect change. ... The poor and middle class don’t have the same resources. They sit there and let the government’s needles enter their arm and allow the blood donation to begin.
Never said stock market was like a casino, (I was making an analogy)and if you don’t think people have losses you are living in a dream world. Granted there are different levels of investors that need to be considered. Young investors loss money all the time. Many books have been written advising people to sell if a stock loses 10%. In a perfect world you can hold off selling until you have gains, but some need to sell to pay expenses. You cannot treat all investors the same. Do some wealthy investors make a ton of money yes and yes they should pay there fair share. You need to have a balance otherwise you will discourage people from saving or investing. Will their be a balance? Hell no the wealthy will find ways to avoid the taxes and the very people you want to help get screw. It’s like the 1.5 trillion the rich are going to pay. All BS, inflation is sky rocketing and the poor and middle class are already paying. After 9/11 tons of investors lost money, during the depression only the wealthy never sold, 90% of the population needed every last dollar they could get for food. Most people are living in a bubble, They don’t really understand what hard times are or what it means to sacrifice to get ahead. It’s great to get everything handed to you and assume nobody ever loses. I hope it stays that way for you. What goes up must come down, you can take that advise to the bank.
I am talking about wealthy investors. When they lose money, they offset it with their gains. Over the long term, the market makes money if you are invested correctly. As I said earlier, an S&P 500 fund would have averaged nearly 10% a year for decades. Those who make money off the market after a couple of million dollars in gains ina year should pay more than just 20%. That is my point. If you believe that they should pay their fair share, then we are in agreement.
Yes people lose money in the market. Nothing is guaranteed. However, when I was young and dumb, I lost money in the market. Then I started to figure out an investment philosophy. I heard a great quote a few months ago. The stock market is not a get rich quick scheme. It’s a get rich slow scheme. This is as good of a quote about the market. Invest young and let the power of time build up your portfolio.
Was reading an editorial this morning that indicated that the top 10% pay 45% of the tax dollars, but actually earn 33% of all wages.
Also in most European countries, the lower 90% pay more than that same group pays here. (90% pay 65%)...in Sweden for instance, they pay 73% AND there is a VAT tax that adds another 20% to any goods that you buy (vs. state tax 6-8% in U.S.).
Also in most European countries, the lower 90% pay more than that same group pays here. (90% pay 65%)...in Sweden for instance, they pay 73% AND there is a VAT tax that adds another 20% to any goods that you buy (vs. state tax 6-8% in U.S.).
Why focus on that phony communistic canard? Shouldn't the focus be on actual tax dollars paid?
scandanavian govt programs are actually competent and super beneficial to the people. they actually provide services above and beyond whats expected. its not like america where your taxes go down the drain or in the pocket of the politician you voted for.
compare the difference of having a baby.
america: 12 weeks unpaid if they work for a company greater than 50 people. medical expenses = whatever the out of pocket max is. better have your baby in january.
sweden: each parent gets 240 PAID leave. a single parent can get 480. can reduce working hours by 25% until child is 8. govt pays for the whole medical bill if you pay taxes. prenatal, birth, postnatal = FREE. finland actually gives you money (or a kit) after the child is born.
That was the gist of the article....social programs are more lucrative in Europe, BUT it gets paid for by more people (not just always the "rich"). Middle and lower class paying more income taxes (%) and the cost of consumer items are much higher. The point is if you want that system, be prepared to pay a lot more, for everyone to pay a lot more.
Government shouldn’t be a social services non-profit organization.
im actually ok paying for more if it means it actually goes towards what they say itll go towards.
M add
Sweden also has more restrictive abortion laws. Try doing that here. The phony, lunatic pussy hat wearers will be all over you.
well again sweden will go out of its way to better the situation of the individual. in america youre forced into a terrible situation, especially financially, with no help in the relevant states.
scandinavian countries are all at the top of the list for quality of life. maybe easier today when youre not as big as the US but generally id say we should try to be more like countries at the top of that list
Rarely are you forced into a terrible situation, it's usually the result of your poor decisions. Personal responsibility.
