What is fair share top 1% and 5% should pay in federal taxes

[cernjSHU]

The whole socialistic/communism schtick is overplayed. We are a mixed market economy. Pure capitalism is not what we have nor do we want it in the US. Dog eat dog world is ugly and cruel leaving only the very few rich and the very poor. So we have elements of socialism that is within our economic system in order to prevent that.

So I do not agree with you about the total amount of taxes paid argument. The uber wealthy pay less of a percentage than me. That's wrong. Moreover, I believe they should pay more and i believe in a progressive tax system because their wealth grants them more access to the levers of power than the ordinary citizen. Thus, they gain much more from government.

 

[ed odowd]

A little more data that hopefully clarifies the issue.Top 10% pay 70% of total tax ,but earn 47% of income.Top 25- pay 87% of tax and earn 69% of income.Bottom 50% pay 3% of total while earning 11% of total income.We are much fairer to the bottom 50% than Europe so why do Dems like Sanders keep calling for higher income people to pay their share while never specifying a percentage.is it possible that nobody on his staff knows these percentages ? More likely Sanders knows and that is why he never gets specific because some of his supporters may know about them, not many but maybe a few.

 

[SPK145]

The whole socialistic/communism schtick is overplayed. We are a mixed market economy. Pure capitalism is not what we have nor do we want it in the US. Dog eat dog world is ugly and cruel leaving only the very few rich and the very poor. So we have elements of socialism that is within our economic system in order to prevent that.

So I do not agree with you about the total amount of taxes paid argument. The uber wealthy pay less of a percentage than me. That's wrong. Moreover, I believe they should pay more and i believe in a progressive tax system because their wealth grants them more access to the levers of power than the ordinary citizen. Thus, they gain much more from government.

A progressive tax system is the epitome of the principles of marxism/communism.

The uber wealthy pay a ton more in taxes than you or I do. And create more wealth for others than you and I'll will ever do. Take a look at your 401K or your investments.

If their wealth grants them more access to the levers of power than the ordinary citizen that's not because of the tax system, that's because of a corrupt government.

A simpler flat tax would do away with much of this.

 

[Merge]

A progressive tax system is the epitome of the principles of marxism/communism.

Capitalism as well there though. The more the lower classes have, the more they will put back into the economy which helps create the demand for labor. A lower tax rate for lower income earners is best for capitalism.

If we went to a flat tax, the far majority of Americans would be paying more which means less consumer spending.

 

[SHUSA]

Rarely are you forced into a terrible situation, it's usually the result of your poor decisions. Personal responsibility.

no as in if youre forced to keep a baby, say at 16, or after a rape, or if its going to require complete medical attention the state wont help you pay for it. youre on your own.

 

[shu09]

no as in if youre forced to keep a baby, say at 16, or after a rape, or if its going to require complete medical attention the state wont help you pay for it. youre on your own.

So it goes back to personal responsibility. Why are you having a baby at 16? That's the problem.

 

[SHUSA]

So it goes back to personal responsibility. Why are you having a baby at 16? That's the problem.

come on.

kids tend to make mistakes. especially 16 yr olds. the government is sure giving them the lifelong lesson that will financially drain them before it even starts. then look down on them for taking welfare. give them no tools to manage the situation. take take take.

its surely what they deserve. they really should know the lifelong implications that will effect their mental health, social health, financial health, freedom, at age 16. stupid kids with no foresight. stupid kids making mistakes.

theres a 30 yr old virgin joke somewhere in here

 

[SHallguy2]

I am talking about wealthy investors. When they lose money, they offset it with their gains. Over the long term, the market makes money if you are invested correctly. As I said earlier, an S&P 500 fund would have averaged nearly 10% a year for decades. Those who make money off the market after a couple of million dollars in gains ina year should pay more than just 20%. That is my point. If you believe that they should pay their fair share, then we are in agreement.

Yes people lose money in the market. Nothing is guaranteed. However, when I was young and dumb, I lost money in the market. Then I started to figure out an investment philosophy. I heard a great quote a few months ago. The stock market is not a get rich quick scheme. It’s a get rich slow scheme. This is as good of a quote about the market. Invest young and let the power of time build up your portfolio.

We agree just in a round about fashion. Lol lost my share as well, and back then I didn’t have gains to offset.

 

[SPK145]

If we went to a flat tax, the far majority of Americans would be paying more which means less consumer spending.

That's not even remotely true based on the plans I've seen. Most flat tax plans have a standard deduction of some level.

 

[Merge]

That's not even remotely true based on the plans I've seen. Most flat tax plans have a standard deduction of some level.

Of course it’s true. If the rate were flat, lower incomes even with a deduction would still be paying a higher rate than they are now. The people who spend most of their money would have less to spend.

Just saying, a progressive tax system actually makes a lot of sense with capitalism.

 

[shu09]

come on.

kids tend to make mistakes. especially 16 yr olds. the government is sure giving them the lifelong lesson that will financially drain them before it even starts. then look down on them for taking welfare. give them no tools to manage the situation. take take take.

its surely what they deserve. they really should know the lifelong implications that will effect their mental health, social health, financial health, freedom, at age 16. stupid kids with no foresight. stupid kids making mistakes.

theres a 30 yr old virgin joke somewhere in here

The fact that you excuse this behavior says a lot. This isn't exactly a mistake like snatching a candy bar from the supermarket check out line at age 16...

 

[SHUSA]

The fact that you excuse this behavior says a lot. This isn't exactly a mistake like snatching a candy bar from the supermarket check out line at age 16...

it says more about you tbh. its not a candy bar mistake, but its still a mistake of a child who simply cant understand the severity of the consequences. i can tell that you werent exactly in these situations too much as a youth lol.

 

[shu09]

You know what you're doing at 16 when it comes to this. Live with the consequences.

 

[SPK145]

https://www.cato.org/commentary/democrats-are-peddling-false-tax-narratives-sell-their-agenda

 

[dehere23]

You know what you're doing at 16 when it comes to this. Live with the consequences.

Exactly. It tends to be more of a culture or socio-economic issue, but personal responsibility has to matter, and there has to be reasonable common sense limitations on social safety nets (which are also important). Everyone posting here I'm sure knows someone who grew up in a tough environment, with the deck stacked against them, and persevered to make something of their life. They then set the framework for their kids, and so on. My Dad was a poor kid from the South Bronx projects and a broken home. He lived with the consequences of many bad decisions, but got his act together in the latter part of his 20s, went to law school later than normal, rose to success through multiple law firms, and ended his career as an executive making the most money of his career. His perspective informed how me and my brothers view the world. And one takeaway has always been that the lessons he learned from having to live with bad decisions, repeatedly, and having to earn his way in the world (rather than someone propping him up), are what made him successful.

 

[SHUSA]

Exactly. It tends to be more of a culture or socio-economic issue, but personal responsibility has to matter, and there has to be reasonable common sense limitations on social safety nets (which are also important). Everyone posting here I'm sure knows someone who grew up in a tough environment, with the deck stacked against them, and persevered to make something of their life. They then set the framework for their kids, and so on. My Dad was a poor kid from the South Bronx projects and a broken home. He lived with the consequences of many bad decisions, but got his act together in the latter part of his 20s, went to law school later than normal, rose to success through multiple law firms, and ended his career as an executive making the most money of his career. His perspective informed how me and my brothers view the world. And one takeaway has always been that the lessons he learned from having to live with bad decisions, repeatedly, and having to earn his way in the world (rather than someone propping him up), are what made him successful.

if the bad decision was a kid at 16 no chance he becomes successful. its a death sentence for any future dreams. poof.

 

[SHUSA]

You know what you're doing at 16 when it comes to this. Live with the consequences.

you really understand at 16? if you dont understand what the real world is like at all (job, taxes, healthcare, rent, child care, etc) then how can you really know the consequences? no 16 yr old has any clue about those things. you didnt, i didnt, no 16 yr old has truly grasped that yet. they arent adults.

theyre not even tried as minors in a court of law. their record is scrubbed at 18. clearly our #1 law system has already created precident against your argument. they simply dont have the judgement to understand the consequences.

but maybe i should cut some slack its hard to sympathize if youve never done it.

 

[shu09]

you really understand at 16?

Yes, I think most people understand you shouldn't have babies at 16.

 

[SHUSA]

Yes, I think most people understand you shouldn't have babies at 16.

most adults do. 16 yr olde know the concept. they also know you shouldnt smoke, bully, shoplift, eat poorly, slack off. they dont understand the true gravity of these situations. it never registers that a consequence can happen to them. otherwise they wouldnt ever do it. thats why theyre kids.

thats why they arent tried as adults in a court of law. clearly you dont have kids. although i do think theyd be pretty successful shells of human.

 

[ed odowd]

I think a Forbes type flat tax where a certain amount of income is not taxed and there are 1or 2 flat rates above that could work.You can run models to solve for the desired amount of tax you are shooting for.Forbes suggested 36 k excluded and a flat rate of 17% above that No deductions.Another modification suggested by others only charitable and mortgage interest would be deductible.Obviously hurts the tax prepares.tax lobbyists, and Pols seeking campaign contributions so proposals have gone nowhere.

 

[HALL85]

I think a Forbes type flat tax where a certain amount of income is not taxed and there are 1or 2 flat rates above that could work.You can run models to solve for the desired amount of tax you are shooting for.Forbes suggested 36 k excluded and a flat rate of 17% above that No deductions.Another modification suggested by others only charitable and mortgage interest would be deductible.Obviously hurts the tax prepares.tax lobbyists, and Pols seeking campaign contributions so proposals have gone nowhere.

I'm sure there are more, but we will never see:
- Tax reform/simplification
- ANY gun reform
- Meaningful immigration reform
ALL politicians have too much to lose if any or all three happen.

 

[shu09]

most adults do. 16 yr olde know the concept. they also know you shouldnt smoke, bully, shoplift, eat poorly, slack off. they dont understand the true gravity of these situations. it never registers that a consequence can happen to them. otherwise they wouldnt ever do it. thats why theyre kids.

thats why they arent tried as adults in a court of law. clearly you dont have kids. although i do think theyd be pretty successful shells of human.

At age 16, I knew what the consequences of having a child would be. Nearly all 16 year olds know that.

Not sure what you're talking about regarding courts - having a child at that age is not illegal, but it surely is a bad decision.

 

[HALL85]

At age 16, I knew what the consequences of having a child would be. Nearly all 16 year olds know that.

Not sure what you're talking about regarding courts - having a child at that age is not illegal, but it surely is a bad decision.

It also shines a light on parenting. If a child has no idea of the consequences of having a baby at 16, I would look at where their parents are.

 

[cernjSHU]

https://www.cato.org/commentary/democrats-are-peddling-false-tax-narratives-sell-their-agenda

Lol. The article said that the tax plan will hit middle class people harder not just the rich due to an increase in tobacco taxes. Wow. That’s a hit.

Second, it’s not that the u we wealthy don’t pay a lot in taxes. But that is relative. However, many do not pay the same percentage as middle class or upper middle class people do. That is the argument and it’s valid.

Btw, have not read the Communist Manifesto since college. Don’t remember that progressive tax system was a pillar of Marxism. However, the US has had a progressive tax system since probably the Civil War and certainly right after the passage of the. 16th Amendment. Tax rates up until Reagan that top bracket was 50% and there were times it was high as 90%. So, if progressive taxation is a pillar of communism, I guess for the last 100 years we have been operating on that pillar.

 

[SPK145]

Lol. The article said that the tax plan will hit middle class people harder not just the rich due to an increase in tobacco taxes. Wow. That’s a hit.

Second, it’s not that the u we wealthy don’t pay a lot in taxes. But that is relative. However, many do not pay the same percentage as middle class or upper middle class people do. That is the argument and it’s valid.

Btw, have not read the Communist Manifesto since college. Don’t remember that progressive tax system was a pillar of Marxism. However, the US has had a progressive tax system since probably the Civil War and certainly right after the passage of the. 16th Amendment. Tax rates up until Reagan that top bracket was 50% and there were times it was high as 90%. So, if progressive taxation is a pillar of communism, I guess for the last 100 years we have been operating on that pillar.

Well, you're dead wrong on the history of the income tax. Started as a flat tax until the feds went roughshod on it. And now we have this mish mosh where the rich pay FAR more than their fair share but the many jealous are still not happy.

47% pay no federal income tax. That is just wrong as well.

 

[cernjSHU]

Well, you're dead wrong on the history of the income tax. Started as a flat tax until the feds went roughshod on it. And now we have this mish mosh where the rich pay FAR more than their fair share but the many jealous are still not happy.

47% pay no federal income tax. That is just wrong as well.

Let’s see. It was progressive from 1862-1866. Flat from 1867 to 1913 to the passage of the 16th Amendment. It’s been progressive ever since. So over the past 100 years. So you think this country stands on a pillar of communism for the past 100 years even though this predates the communist revolution? https://taxfoundation.org/historical-income-tax-rates-brackets/.

Clearly, you are happy paying more of a percentage of your income than billionaires. You think that’s fair. I fundamentally disagree with you.

Btw, a few of that 47% are millionaires and billionaires. According to Forbes, only 11% age 22-55 do not pay taxes. https://www.forbes.com/sites/howard...s-they-are-not-who-you-think/?sh=379637bd47d7

 

[SPK145]

Clearly, you are happy paying more of a percentage of your income than billionaires. You think that’s fair. I fundamentally disagree with you.

I'm happy that they pay TONS more than me in actual tax dollars. That never concerns you, only the pct.

I'm not jealous of their success, I admire it.

 

[Pirata]

The whole socialistic/communism schtick is overplayed.

The whole loophole schtick is overplayed. Just another catchphrase.

In reality it is tax law.

 

[Merge]

I'm happy that they pay TONS more than me in actual tax dollars. That never concerns you, only the pct.

I'm not jealous of their success, I admire it.

I don't think anyone here has a position out of jealousy.

It is a balance for how the economy will function best while proving whatever revenue is necessary.
Our economy is driven by consumer spending and we all benefit if the people who spend their money have more money to spend.

 

[cernjSHU]

I'm happy that they pay TONS more than me in actual tax dollars. That never concerns you, only the pct.

I'm not jealous of their success, I admire it.

Who said I’m jealous. One of the people I admire most (not for his personality) is Steve Jobs. He deserved all the money he earned. He created the greatest company in the world. But, he needs to pay his taxes. That means he should pay more of a percentage than I do. As I stated earlier, the wealthy benefit the most from the government whether it is tax breaks, subsidies, government incentives.

As a matter of fact, he has the means to pay more without affecting his lifestyle one iota. These people have more money than they can spend in 10 lifetimes.

 

[sami]

So does anyone have an issue with Bezos’ ex and her mission to donate her wealth to charitable endeavors she sees fit? You know… the gov’t isn’t seeing penny one in tax revenue from that disposition of wealth and 501c3 orgs aren’t paying taxes when they sell the stock and use as they wish.

 

[HALL85]

So does anyone have an issue with Bezos’ ex and her mission to donate her wealth to charitable endeavors she sees fit? You know… the gov’t isn’t seeing penny one in tax revenue from that disposition of wealth and 501c3 orgs aren’t paying taxes when they sell the stock and use as they wish.

Or the Giving Pledge that Buffett, Gates, etc. 50% of their wealth to non-profit causes.