Be careful what you wish for. I don't want any of the key contributors to leave after this season given what we could be in store for over the next two. That includes the coach.
Willard
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Be careful what you wish for. I don't want any of the key contributors to leave after this season given what we could be in store for over the next two. That includes the coach.
How rediculous is this post. How in the world can this be the best thing? If they name a deep run and the team and coaching staff continue to gel, as they are, then Willard hired awake could be a really bad thing. I don't get some on this board. I really don't. Let hope the continue the success and really do make it deep in tourney. Then let's revisit coach situation. With all the positives we have right now, we don't need to focus on this noise.
The pessimists have perfectly valid opinions which I respect. Last season, However, The pessimists took over the board and almost every post involved Willard bashing which made the board virtually unreadable. It wasn't their opinions that were troubling. Rather, it was the redundancy of their posts. I guess that I'm an optimist by nature and it irks me when someone is overly pessimistic. But I realize, however, that's more my problem than their's.
Wasn't being smarmy...the contingent on here that can't get over a "negative" post are generally of the retiree age range. Death and taxes...
I basically agree with almost everything said:
- Willard has produced measurable in-game improvement
. . . . we seem to have inbounds plays
. . . . . we get back on defense 3x as much as last year (albeit still only about 2/3rds of what we 'should')
. . . . . our 'lazy passes' have decreased markedly --- just since Creighton 1
. . . . Last year we finally saw players moving on the court
. . . . . . . .Now we see more consistent "ball movement" too
. . . . . . . . . . . . . .(surprisingly good from our big men, especially)
. . . . Rebounding is MUCH better (and we're even seeing a little boxing-out)
. . . . There still seems to be total ignorance of protecting the baseline (sigh).
. . . . .A coach cannot shoot for his players, but he is responsible for having players who can shoot
- Willard is finally acting like a "head" coach
. . . . He no longer wants to be the team's friend, but their "boss"
. . . . . . . . . . . .(anger often replaces doe-eyed head-shaking)
. . . . He has grown (at least a little) in his public rhetoric
. . . . . . . . . .Less inclined to throw kids under the bus
- SHU was clearly the better coached team in the last two games (not sure about Creighton)
- IMHO recruiting is still an open question-mark
. . . . .one batch of crocuses does not Spring make
. . . . . . Sha is growing
. . . . . . Has Freddie gotten back into stride?
. . . . . . .I would have expected NO ONE to recruit well last year, when the effigies were aflame
. . . . . .. IW and AD might have been job-offer inducements,
. . . . . . . . . . . .but virtually every other Frosh and Soph has been 2x-3x my own expectations
. . . . . . . . . . . .it's easier for a role player to be a natural role-player than try to be the #1
The prime point from my perspective is that there is no rush to extend him. And there should not be.
SHU demonstrated extraordinary patience (restraint?) last year when the wheels came-off --- both on and off the court. If KW were to get a better offer (and if it were not a "no brainer") then KW would disappoint me even more if his patience and restraint did not reward that shown by the Administration last year.
I am just now beginning to believe KW might be capable as a head coach --- after wishing for that his first 4 1/2 years.
I am very impressed with the maturity and discipline of our Sophs and Frosh. They have deserved a lot of patience and understanding. That said, I fear in my mind KW being in his 6th year had to (and rightfully should have been expected to) put up or shut up this year --- sophs or not. He has -- so far. And it appears to be more than the super-talents of his players on display. I like the skills, discipline and Bball IQ being demonstrated.
But please no extension talk until at least February 2018.
- Willard has produced measurable in-game improvement
. . . . we seem to have inbounds plays
. . . . . we get back on defense 3x as much as last year (albeit still only about 2/3rds of what we 'should')
. . . . . our 'lazy passes' have decreased markedly --- just since Creighton 1
. . . . Last year we finally saw players moving on the court
. . . . . . . .Now we see more consistent "ball movement" too
. . . . . . . . . . . . . .(surprisingly good from our big men, especially)
. . . . Rebounding is MUCH better (and we're even seeing a little boxing-out)
. . . . There still seems to be total ignorance of protecting the baseline (sigh).
. . . . .A coach cannot shoot for his players, but he is responsible for having players who can shoot
- Willard is finally acting like a "head" coach
. . . . He no longer wants to be the team's friend, but their "boss"
. . . . . . . . . . . .(anger often replaces doe-eyed head-shaking)
. . . . He has grown (at least a little) in his public rhetoric
. . . . . . . . . .Less inclined to throw kids under the bus
- SHU was clearly the better coached team in the last two games (not sure about Creighton)
- IMHO recruiting is still an open question-mark
. . . . .one batch of crocuses does not Spring make
. . . . . . Sha is growing
. . . . . . Has Freddie gotten back into stride?
. . . . . . .I would have expected NO ONE to recruit well last year, when the effigies were aflame
. . . . . .. IW and AD might have been job-offer inducements,
. . . . . . . . . . . .but virtually every other Frosh and Soph has been 2x-3x my own expectations
. . . . . . . . . . . .it's easier for a role player to be a natural role-player than try to be the #1
The prime point from my perspective is that there is no rush to extend him. And there should not be.
SHU demonstrated extraordinary patience (restraint?) last year when the wheels came-off --- both on and off the court. If KW were to get a better offer (and if it were not a "no brainer") then KW would disappoint me even more if his patience and restraint did not reward that shown by the Administration last year.
I am just now beginning to believe KW might be capable as a head coach --- after wishing for that his first 4 1/2 years.
I am very impressed with the maturity and discipline of our Sophs and Frosh. They have deserved a lot of patience and understanding. That said, I fear in my mind KW being in his 6th year had to (and rightfully should have been expected to) put up or shut up this year --- sophs or not. He has -- so far. And it appears to be more than the super-talents of his players on display. I like the skills, discipline and Bball IQ being demonstrated.
But please no extension talk until at least February 2018.
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This team has the talent to make the NCAA and it looks like that's where we're headed (barring a collapse). I'm no fan of Willard, but I freely give him credit for delivering on that. The team has been fun to watch and I look forward to meaningful games in March.
I think you're right. The attitude of some of our posters are in fact a product of their particular generation. I also think that the older generations are smart enough to realize that negativity seldom brings about positive change. On the contrary, negativity often leads to more undesirable results. People usually attain what they focus on.
Would it be safe to say it's a good thing those guys who were going to buy him out didn't win the $1.5 billion powerball.
Agree with this take. I wasn't advocating for an extension - I think the jury is still out on that. But I do think he will be seeking one if this team makes the tournament, especially if he thinks that Isiah and Delgado are going to jump pro. That's the way this stuff works - strike while it's hot.
Two of the best at that were Bo Ryan at Wisconsin and Brad Stevens , when he was at Butler.
I'm here Fordham, but not to do any mea culpa. Looks like the dance is possible after 6 long years, but we all know how the majority of this class was brought in. So do we again have an assistant coach to bring in with a 4 star kid as a tag along, and if so, someone needs to be tossed. Who have we recruited by the way? So before I wet my pants as most of you seem to be doing, I want to hear our name called in March and then again in March 17 and March 18.
As for the extension, it was already taken care of. And please let's never make the mistake in thinking that Kevin Willard could ever do what Bo Ryan did by bringing in mid level talent and coaching them up to greatness,
As for the extension, it was already taken care of. And please let's never make the mistake in thinking that Kevin Willard could ever do what Bo Ryan did by bringing in mid level talent and coaching them up to greatness,
It's too early to say but you don't know that. Is it possible that Kevin has learned a lot on the job here and is finally coming into his own? Yes it is and I hope its true. While I thought Amaker recruited crazy well, his in game coaching was not great but he had tremendous talent. I think Kevin's in game coaching is better than Tommy's (some will disagree I'm sure). But it's possible our coach is learning and growing and becoming a better all-round coach. Bo Ryan better, probably not but he's young so you just never know. I'd prefer to watch and enjoy the upward trajectory than be a negative Nancy and I'd prefer to give him his due as well. He is earning it this year.
I came into this season thinking we were a 50/50 team to make the NIT. I really didn't think we were going to challenge for an NCAA berth. At least to me we have over achieved thus far, the first time since his 2nd year here (until the Rutgers/DePaul meltdown).
Willard has this team playing great D (which I'm shocked how good we have been) and we are a hell of a rebounding team. Willard has pushed all the right buttons so far. Team is fun to watch and Willard just seems to have a different demeanor about him this season. Like the fire he has shown so far. It's nice for this team playing meaningful games in February/March now.
Willard has this team playing great D (which I'm shocked how good we have been) and we are a hell of a rebounding team. Willard has pushed all the right buttons so far. Team is fun to watch and Willard just seems to have a different demeanor about him this season. Like the fire he has shown so far. It's nice for this team playing meaningful games in February/March now.
Willard has done a really good job this year so far, have to acknowledge that, as well as acknowledge that he was a horrible coach in his first five years at Seton Hall.
If we beat Butler, Willard remains a hero on this board.
If we lose, naysayers will return.
If we lose, naysayers will return.
Yes, exactly. I am kind of flabbergasted at the improvement. Like in, where ya been?
The solid programs have great stability at the head coaching position. We need that very badly. Yes, it took 6 years to get there, but this is still an incredibly young team with years of great potential. This team has learned the secret to success in their sophomore years. The staff gets all the credit for that development. We may look back a few years and say it was worth the wait.
He was a poor recruiter, not a bad coach. Think of how Fu shot the ball as a freshman. I think Auda was allergic to the paint his freshman year. Willard developed guys left and right but just didn't have 8 or 9 big east players on the roster. Who didn't leave Seton Hall much better than when they came in? The guy can coach, he just needed big east caliber athletes. Getting the athletes I think took longer than expected, but the guy can coach. Granted we folded late 2012, but we had no inside game besides Pope. How many elite coaches could win in the big east with only 1 undersized center, a quality PG, and starting SG that was only a spot up shooter at the time? Geramipoor was not ready in year 2 and Auda was still more perimeter oriented.
I've seen Bo Ryan's teams for more years than I care to admit and what's his name is no Bo Ryan.
Plus, one successful season (still TBD) does not a make a coach successful.
The guy might be, as Slick Rick characterized him, a great X&O coach; he might be OK at developing players; but for 5 years he was a lousy head coach as well as for 4 years a lousy recruiter.
He had better players than the teams which beat him at the very end of 2012. Last year he had the same players who beat SJU & Nova when the team imploded. He either could not deal with or chose not to deal with or was oblivious to the turmoil in the locker room.
For 5 years he did not have a team which played with strong fundamentals --- the basics.
This year --- so far --- he seems a different coach and the team looks great. Is it lightning in a bottle? Is it luck? Will he finish? Can he replace the players he will lose over the next two years? Can he build a "program"?
The jury is out but 5/6ths of the evidence on the record is damning IMHO but the trend is up.
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Old alum that team had 2 crappy losses but you forget to mention they had a few outstanding wins. That lousy coach beat Huggins and Calhoun who both had 5 times the talent Willard had. That team was not very talented. I believe they were picked in the bottom 4 of the big east that year because of talent, not the coach.
Guys, can we just enjoy this stretch and stop with this stuff. We have won 4 straight, have a legit NCAA and top 25 team, and people still want to talk about this. You are what your record is. Willard is 17-6 right now..
In the world of what have you done for me lately, Willard has done an amazing this season. The team is on the cusp of a top 5 finish in the conference and a NCAA appearance. We have a lot of basketball to play, but to date Willard deserves credit from the fan base.
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IMHO the 'bottom line' on whether a "head coach" is good or not is how his team delivers over not just an entire season but over sequential seasons. I am not alone when I say that while an occasional upset as a sleeper-opponent in a trap-game is good, it is not satisfactory.
IMHO the first criterion is pride in the players, and on that Willard is good, but while that is necessary it is not sufficient, or else we should hire a Franciscan monk.
The second is championships won.
The third is record in conference.
The fourth is overall record (against worthy opponents, not cupcakes).
The fifth is PR.
IMHO, until this season it is ONLY the first criterion on which Willard's record earns a grade as a "good head coach"
Even the blind hog....
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So it's pretty simple. Keep doing what your doing, Kevin, and things will be peachy. Revert to the past and the stuff will hit the fan again. Seems fair to me. As far as recruiting goes, The table looks pretty full to me so it must look that way to kids looking at PT. He picked off a real nice player to come in next year anyway. Let's see if he can add that real big human we need and recruiting will be fine. And besides no one knows 100% what's going on in that area. Raise your hand if you knew we were going to get this sophomore class before they signed or that Gordon was going to be a Pirate.
This could have been the same assessment of PJ before he turned it around.
I am unsurpassed at my amazement and praise for Willard's current team and the job KW has done so far.
The only reason I did not remain just an interested reader of this thread was an early post which called for SHU to extend Willard's contract NOW. I have no problem with giving KW all of the "attaboys" anyone wants to, just no extension --- yet.
BTW the only reason this year's performance is "amazingly" good --- as opposed to satisfactory for a good coach --- is because the prior 5 seasons were so amazingly bad.
But I think no one is enjoying this ride more than I.
Absolutely 57!!!!
And I pray that KW becomes half the coach PJ was.
More importantly, I pray KW does not regress to his mean.
No one wants him to succeed more than I. But he is not there yet.
I am like the Giants. I will wait till the end of the year to evaluate performance. Way too early to tell.
I am happy Gibbs and Sina skipped out of town. Not too early to say that.
I am happy Gibbs and Sina skipped out of town. Not too early to say that.
I have been critical of Willard in the past. He has done an excellent job this year and deserves the credit. Really, for the first time we have seen a Willard team improve as the season has gone on. Lots of reasons for that; lack of injures, better talent, and maybe some on the job improvements by the Coach and his staff. Whatever the reasons, if he wins he should get the credit. You are your record. Very excited about this years team, and for a change hope has a genuine basis for it.
Just wondering what people think on this. With everything that Kevin has endured to get the program back on the rails, do you think he would be inclined to run away for the first, second or third big offer to turn around another program in trouble? He didn't enjoy the first 5 years anymore than we did and he did look into other situations at the end of last year.
First I'd want to know when IW and AD try to go pro?
Who would offer yet? This is not ShAmaker "failing" with an NIT bid after losing by 2 in the Sweet-16.
Great query garyshu. You always run the risk that once a coach achieves a modicum of success, he will use it as a springboard to a more lucrative job offer.
That would be a greast question to pose to Dan because he probably is as close to the situation as anyone, and I would love to see you pose that question to him on the Trove because I'm not sure Dan would like his feelings about that subject known on the more public free board, if he would like them known at all. Frank
I'd actually say that there are some significant concerns about recruiting/team make-up next year. Not related to Willard or his actions as an in-game coach, but just based on the what has been happening team-wide. The latest incident with Jevon Thomas means our guard situation for next year is precarious depending on what happens this season:
Scenario 1:
We over-achieve (best case scenario). Go deep in the tournament. IW now a flight risk. If the University finds JT to be solely at-fault for the Rec Center incident we now have no PG next year and only one returning guard with any real experience in KC. That would be a huge problem that would likely hurt our tournament chances next year. Can't fault IW for leaving if his draft prospects rise that fast.
Scenario 2:
IW stays. As long as he stays it really doesn't matter what happens to JT. If he leaves the university we will find another player who will behave and hopefully be a good prospect (grad transfer, Juco kid). If JT stays hopefully he learns and will be a great back-up to IW. We will feel the hurt from Gordon graduating. The kid is a superstar team member.
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Good question Gary . It's always been my view that you never turn down listening to an offer and if the offer is attractive enough you leave . I believe that is especially true if you have that one big year to attract those " can't turn them down offers".
Good question Gary . It's always been my view that you never turn down listening to an offer and if the offer is attractive enough you leave . I believe that is especially true if you have that one big year to attract those " can't turn them down offers".
Well , it just seems to me that with what he knows now about fixeruppers, he may be inclined to stay on if things are going well, rather than chase a problem. I'm tired of coaching turnover and if he's getting the job done well , don't want to go through it again for some time. Of course he has a lot to prove before someone would come calling, but they have sniffed around for him in the past when we missed an invite by that one game in Tampa.
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