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WILLARDS BUYOUT REPORTED 3.2 MILLION

Originally posted by knowknow456:

Originally posted by Shuathelete:

KnowKnow take a lap. Blaming SPK? LOL

and by the way Willard isnt 1/6 the coach Crean is. Willard is 0/0 because hes not a coach. Honestly. Not even a blip on the radar. Cant be compared to anyone.
SPK knows what I am referring to and no I am not saying SPK caused us to go 4-12 in the second half of the season. I am sure he will reply and I am sure it will be well thought out and logical. He is a bright guy. He will probably make some reference to my twisting his words; it isn't true but so be it.

As far as Willard vs Crean, I am not going to argue about 16% but I want to believe we are 1/6 as good as Indiana. And math isn't even my strong suit. 1.4 divided by 12 is 11.67%. If we want to win important games, we need to at least be 11% as good as a program like Indiana.
Thats the toughest part. We have to somehow run Wilalrd out of time while at the same time letting the players know we support them 100% and admire their choice to stick it out at the Hall. I believe in the players. Our squad is much much better than their record and their current play.
 
If we can't afford to buy him out and pay a new HC, can we just fire him and keep paying him to sit at home until we can afford the buyout?

Let Sha take their reigns, and hire a new assistant. Might not be better, but definitely will not be worse.

Hire me! I'm cheap, I can stand on the sidelines, clap, and tell them to fight.
I don't know anything about drawing up offense sets... My only successful recruiting would be due to hiring new assistant.
Wouldn't miss a beat.
 
I would rather fire Willard, and run a random drawing before each game that picks a student to be coach for a day. Is Jackie Moon, former HC of the ABA Tropics available to coach SHU.
 
Originally posted by knowknow456:
SPK - I blame you for this. Three weeks ago, when the buyout talk first started I asked you to spit out what you knew. You didn't. Last week, I said you could end all the speculation about the buyout in one paragraph if you wanted to. You chose not to. Since you are now willing to put your numbers out there, I can only conclude you weren't protecting your sources, you trying to fan the flames of discontent. Well done, but you wasted your time and some of your credibility. Willard seems to have fanned the flames quite well without any need for outside help.......SPK knows what I am referring to and no I am not saying SPK caused us to go 4-12 in the second half of the season. I am sure he will reply and I am sure it will be well thought out and logical. He is a bright guy. He will probably make some reference to my twisting his words; it isn't true but so be it.
LOL

This is IMHO incredible.

Exactly what role or position do you believe SPK plays in the SHU basketball hierarchy?

What authority, or more cogently, what responsibility do you believe he has to you, to anyone on this board, or to SHU? Is he a Regent? Is he a Board Admin? Do you have him on personal retainer?

Who do you think you are?



This post was edited on 3/12 2:56 PM by Old_alum
 
Originally posted by Old_alum:
LOL

This is IMHO incredible.

Exactly what role or position do you believe SPK plays in the SHU basketball hierarchy?

What authority, or more cogently, what responsibility do you believe he has to you, to anyone on this board, or to SHU? Is he a Regent? Is he a Board Admin? Do you have him on personal retainer?

Who do you think you are?



This post was edited on 3/12 2:56 PM by Old_alum
If he so chooses, SPK will have no trouble handling the likes of me although I find it kind of sweet that you are sticking up for him. Is this a volunteer position or does he have you on retainer?
 
Originally posted by knowknow456:

although I find it kind of sweet that you are sticking up for him. Is this a volunteer position or does he have you on retainer?

LOL

I guess you just don't get it.

No one, especially SPK, needs me or anyone else to stick up for him.

That said, your incredible bombast is the type that would only be exaggerated (but certainly not dignified) if one were to stoop and answer it himself. It would be a no win game.

But as almost any reader of this board would probably acknowledge, I am nothing if not Quixotic, and --- though if I were to charge a retainer for such services SPK probably could not af , no make that, would not pay it --- the best causes are the free ones.

You know what they say about "a spoonful for sugar"!
 
oh great, the two people who love to hear themselves talk the most on here are now going to try & out-bloviate each other. Note to knowknow: you're not clever, despite your attempts.
 
I'm all for blaming SPK. Pitchforks and torches everyone! Let's get him!
 
There is no possible way the buyout is anywhere near this number....probably about half of this number makes more sense now but you cant let him go, unless you want to wipe away Whitehead, Delgado and others from the equation, because I doubt they would stay given a new staff and any reasonably new coach would not keep Tiny on staff anyway, which would also create a pothole you have into a huge crater.

Best to ride it out and see if you find a couple of underrated kids to go with Singh for the spring signing period so if you do make a change after next year, at least there are some pieces to work with.

The problems are financial and not performance based....SHU needs to shed the Prudential rental arrangement, it's a noose around the neck of the program that should be more profitable but is going to be tough to generate money unless you are averaging 9K to 10K in attendance per game for 19-20 home dates, which you cannot do unless you schedule way, way up in November and December. The limitations of not having your own arena (even if it was capped at 4500 to 5K in a small on campus arena that you control the gate and revenue for).

I don't know what Marquette, Creighton and others "pay" to use their huge arenas that are essentially NBA like spots (don't know if Creighton's arena is 100% their own), but if you are not rolling in donations and ticket sales, you cannot randomly blow out coaches and hit the reset button.

No way recruiting can be easier at this stage, Willard is a lame duck after this finish, so whatever players arrive have to be JUCO's that are 2 year rentals or kids that want to be in the tristate area regardless of Willard staying or going after this year, next year etc.....the problems are eerily similar between RU and SHU, it's really financial more than anything that plagues both programs from getting out of their own way.
 
knowknow46,

Not ignoring you, I just don't know where else to go with this topic as I've heard so many different things about the buyout, including that there is no buyout.

I have no problem beating a dead horse, but this one's already at McDonalds.
 
Originally posted by Old_alum:

No one, especially SPK, needs me or anyone else to stick up for him.

That said, your incredible bombast is the type that would only be exaggerated (but certainly not dignified) if one were to stoop and answer it himself. It would be a no win game.

But as almost any reader of this board would probably acknowledge, I am nothing if not Quixotic, and --- though if I were to charge a retainer for such services SPK probably could not af , no make that, would not pay it --- the best causes are the free ones.
Thanks for having my back, Old Aluminum!!

Of course I wouldn't pay you.
 
As SPK has noted there are multiple numbers being floated around about the terms of Willard's contract, its expiration date, the amount of the buyout , or even if there is a buyout . What still continues to surprise me is that no one in the sports media, especially the local media like Carino or Politi , haven't laid out the numbers utilizing whatever sources they have. With all the speculation about how long Kevin will remain as our head coach and that the primary reason he'll return is that the buyout is cost prohibitive for SH I would have thought it would be a story waiting to be written.
 
The buyout number is obviously important, but it's not the be-all, end-all that everyone here is making it out to be.

It seems obvious, and it also makes sense, for the school's $$$ number to be based on the cost of buying out the coach, PLUS what it will cost them to pay a new one. I think that is the number they are fearful of.
 
The question no one is asking is whether any monies that would be due if he were replaced are required to be paid in a single lump amount or does it provide for payment over a specified time period , which , of course, would lessen the financial impact of replacing him. If anyone knows I would hope they'd share that with this Board.
 
have to agree with NEWJERSEYHAWK on the fact that the rent we pay I think I saw it on here a few weeks ago is fifty five thousand a game. Wow that is a strangehold on the program. And playing all those years at Continental could have been cheap either. The school rather pay than do something like build an arena off campus . There must be land or even an existing building that can be renovate in either Union County Morris or Essex counties. Of course as I said maybe 30 minutes from campus at the most. A reasonable 9 or 10 thousand or even less 6 or 7 thousand seats. Almost happened in the mid eighties with Essex county. talk of going in with the then South Mountain Arena and renovating it and sharing with the county. We still could have played a few big games at the arena if we wanted. And how much is the cost of staying at the SHORT HILLS HILTON HOTEL before home games. This isn't a pro team. waste of money. Finally I don't agree with NJ HAWK about players leaving if there is a new staff. maybe some of the players that don't play much but Del Gado and Whitehead think they are pros and may be some ay. If they left would have to sit out a year and no way would that happen. Best thing the school can do for all the kids on the team is to get them a better coach. To wait another year is insanity. Former Rutgers AD Tim Pernetti made some mistakes with coach rice but he got RU in the BIG and if he were our AD I bet Willard would already be gone. And he would find a way to pay that extension. About any arena I know that we have a lot of projects in the works but should have been done long ago. even with that situation. we pay all that rent yet we are stuck doing anything about another place to play.
 
Maybe it has nothing to do with a buyout? Maybe we have a house divided on what to do with him?

Who knows.
 
We've heard so many stories that I have no idea what the buy out is or if there even is one. But if the $3.2 million is correct that tells me that there is no buy out provision at all and the 3.2 million figure represents his entire salary over the next two years. If so what were they thinking when this contract was agreed to.

Tom K
 
Originally posted by Piratz:
Maybe it has nothing to do with a buyout? Maybe we have a house divided on what to do with him?

Who knows.
I wonder about this as well.

coukd it be that even buyout aside, Willard retains the support of Lyons and other key decision makers?

frankly, I'm not even sure which one is worse.
 
Tom
You want an answer to what they were thinking when they agreed it this contract. Simple answer THEY WEREN 'T !
 
I believe there is a Board of Regents meeting in two weeks. I'm sure a lot is being discussed before that meeting and I'm sure a big part of that meeting will be the basketball program. The prognosticators will have to wait for that meeting and maybe even beyond to get some answers. But a number of very connected folks on our BOR stuck their necks out for Coach Willard and stability and the like so this will not be a speedy conversation in my opinion. And I am sure there are differing opinions among the decision makers and probably some decision makers that don't even want to deal with it because they want to focus on the school and the Med school and they hate the basketball program etc., etc. That is the inner workings of Seton Hall.

http://www.shu.edu/offices/board-affairs/
 
Originally posted by Section112:

I believe there is a Board of Regents meeting in two weeks. I'm sure a lot is being discussed before that meeting and I'm sure a big part of that meeting will be the basketball program. The prognosticators will have to wait for that meeting and maybe even beyond to get some answers. But a number of very connected folks on our BOR stuck their necks out for Coach Willard and stability and the like so this will not be a speedy conversation in my opinion. And I am sure there are differing opinions among the decision makers and probably some decision makers that don't even want to deal with it because they want to focus on the school and the Med school and they hate the basketball program etc., etc. That is the inner workings of Seton Hall.
The facts of life, explained dispassionately.
 
Section 112,

I don't want to read too much into your post so just stop me if I'm looking for something that isn't there. But your suggestion that BOR doesn't want to deal men's basketball because they hate it or have no use for the program is pathetic and short-sighted, if at all true. We've all seen what notoriety and visibility have done for schools like George Mason. How much did applications sky rocket after their final 4? If key folks don't recognize the importance to of their flagship program to the overall image of Seton Hall and how it affects other segments of the school, shame on them.
 
Originally posted by Section112:

I believe there is a Board of Regents meeting in two weeks. I'm sure a lot is being discussed before that meeting and I'm sure a big part of that meeting will be the basketball program. The prognosticators will have to wait for that meeting and maybe even beyond to get some answers. But a number of very connected folks on our BOR stuck their necks out for Coach Willard and stability and the like so this will not be a speedy conversation in my opinion. And I am sure there are differing opinions among the decision makers and probably some decision makers that don't even want to deal with it because they want to focus on the school and the Med school and they hate the basketball program etc., etc. That is the inner workings of Seton Hall.
Hard to believe an issue the magnitude of the men's basketball program would be left up to "business as usual" in two weeks, but you never know I suppose.

Need a sense of urgency here.
 
Originally posted by Section112:

I believe there is a Board of Regents meeting in two weeks. I'm sure a lot is being discussed before that meeting and I'm sure a big part of that meeting will be the basketball program. The prognosticators will have to wait for that meeting and maybe even beyond to get some answers. But a number of very connected folks on our BOR stuck their necks out for Coach Willard and stability and the like so this will not be a speedy conversation in my opinion. And I am sure there are differing opinions among the decision makers and probably some decision makers that don't even want to deal with it because they want to focus on the school and the Med school and they hate the basketball program etc., etc. That is the inner workings of Seton Hall.
Thanks for that link. I don't know a whole lot about how the Board operates but not surprisingly a lot of the members are part of the Archdiocese or Priests so there's probably a lot of conflicting visions and viewpoints. I don't know anything about Hank D., but I do believe he is highly regarded by the board and one of the members that has our bball program in his best interests if I remember the posts I've read correctly. Curious how decisions are made exactly? Do they go to a majority rules vote? Does the President of the Board have final say?
 
Save Continental don't read too much into it. The BORs care deeply about SHU. But like any organization you have folks that focus on different things. As an example, there might be members for instance who care about Ministry or Academics who might not want to deal with the basketball team because its not their thing. Not trying to single out anyone or group - just using an example and they may see their role as improving the school in their area of expertise which is normal. They may not like the basketball team. Msgr. Cafone (God rest his soul) was on the BORs and did not like to have much to do with the basketball program. That is just normal and you need a diverse BORs to be effective. We are not diverse on this board as we are all basketball junkies.

I was just painting a picture that with any University BORs there are going to be members that have different beliefs and priorities and when they see the money it will take to buy out a coach for instance I'm sure they might say why don't we use that money for X instead. Many of the readers of this board may not appreciate how SHU makes decisions but I am sure with any big money decisions (the Coach is the highest paid individual at the school) they will have final say and there will be lots of differing opinions as to its relative importance to the school. And if they are meeting in a few weeks that will be an important meeting if anyone thinks there is the possibility that the coach will stay or go.

This post was edited on 3/13 10:56 AM by Section112
 
When you think of all the smart, hardworking and effective people working at Seton Hall - then juxtapose that with the (obvious) fact that Kevin Willard is by far the highest paid individual at Seton Hall...that just pours salt in the wound.

What a lucky, lucky individual. Uncle is Rick Pitino and dad is a former Big East coach. Guy doesn't seem like much and hasn't accomplished a darn thing, and in fact has made a dogs breakfast out of things instead. Turns him in a millionaire many times over before 40.

Says something about 2015 America, opportunity and priorities (including ours as fans/alumni).

But that's for another day...
 
Originally posted by Section112:
Save Continental don't read too much into it. The BORs care deeply about SHU. But like any organization you have folks that focus on different things. As an example, there might be members for instance who care about Ministry or Academics who might not want to deal with the basketball team because its not their thing. Not trying to single out anyone or group - just using an example and they may see their role as improving the school in their area of expertise which is normal. They may not like the basketball team. Msgr. Cafone (God rest his soul) was on the BORs and did not like to have much to do with the basketball program. That is just normal and you need a diverse BORs to be effective. We are not diverse on this board as we are all basketball junkies.

I was just painting a picture that with any University BORs there are going to be members that have different beliefs and priorities and when they see the money it will take to buy out a coach for instance I'm sure they might say why don't we use that money for X instead. Many of the readers of this board may not appreciate how SHU makes decisions but I am sure with any big money decisions (the Coach is the highest paid individual at the school) they will have final say and there will be lots of differing opinions as to its relative importance to the school. And if they are meeting in a few weeks that will be an important meeting if anyone thinks there is the possibility that the coach will stay or go.

This post was edited on 3/13 10:56 AM by Section112
Boards will have a diversity of priorities and opinions for sure. It's really up to the President (and Board Chairman) to drive the agenda, recommendations with support and gain agreement. While the BOR meeting is an important juncture potenitally for a "vote" on this kind of matter, it's not the end all. It doesn't preclude individual conversations from occuring between Estaban, Lyons and BOR members (or between BOR members) if a decision on something is needed in between meetings. I don't know if a "Willard decision" requires some kind of vote, but you can do that in a BOR meeting or using a written consent between meetings. My sense is that the topic of Mens BB is a subject of every meeting and given the downward trajectory of the program, if Gabe/Pat were on their game, they should have been communicating their thoughts and options at previous meetings (along with gaining agreement for any actons). You can always call an emergency meeting as well, but I don't think this would warrant it. My point is, a President and Board Chair should be dealing with these issues on a regular basis and the meetings are typically more of a formality than a key milestone for action.
 
Originally posted by HALL85:

Originally posted by Section112:
Save Continental don't read too much into it. The BORs care deeply about SHU. But like any organization you have folks that focus on different things. As an example, there might be members for instance who care about Ministry or Academics who might not want to deal with the basketball team because its not their thing. Not trying to single out anyone or group - just using an example and they may see their role as improving the school in their area of expertise which is normal. They may not like the basketball team. Msgr. Cafone (God rest his soul) was on the BORs and did not like to have much to do with the basketball program. That is just normal and you need a diverse BORs to be effective. We are not diverse on this board as we are all basketball junkies.

I was just painting a picture that with any University BORs there are going to be members that have different beliefs and priorities and when they see the money it will take to buy out a coach for instance I'm sure they might say why don't we use that money for X instead. Many of the readers of this board may not appreciate how SHU makes decisions but I am sure with any big money decisions (the Coach is the highest paid individual at the school) they will have final say and there will be lots of differing opinions as to its relative importance to the school. And if they are meeting in a few weeks that will be an important meeting if anyone thinks there is the possibility that the coach will stay or go.


This post was edited on 3/13 10:56 AM by Section112
Boards will have a diversity of priorities and opinions for sure. It's really up to the President (and Board Chairman) to drive the agenda, recommendations with support and gain agreement. While the BOR meeting is an important juncture potenitally for a "vote" on this kind of matter, it's not the end all. It doesn't preclude individual conversations from occuring between Estaban, Lyons and BOR members (or between BOR members) if a decision on something is needed in between meetings. I don't know if a "Willard decision" requires some kind of vote, but you can do that in a BOR meeting or using a written consent between meetings. My sense is that the topic of Mens BB is a subject of every meeting and given the downward trajectory of the program, if Gabe/Pat were on their game, they should have been communicating their thoughts and options at previous meetings (along with gaining agreement for any actons). You can always call an emergency meeting as well, but I don't think this would warrant it. My point is, a President and Board Chair should be dealing with these issues on a regular basis and the meetings are typically more of a formality than a key milestone for action.
Agree mostly. And of course there are ongoing discussions and many of them as there should be. But I bet the BORs has not had a get together since the crash so to speak (they probably get together quarterly) and any decision over X $'s has to have BOR approval so to say this is a formality I think is overstating it a bit. You know there are varying opinions on this from give him another year or two, to I am covering my butt because I approved of this contract, to get another coach. I personally hope its a big topic of the meeting.
 
The first question you have to ask about any Board is whether they are a rubber-stamp Board that follows the lead of the Chairman or the other leaders on that Board or are they a Board who not only are independent and are engaged in the discussion of setting the agenda for the school and are a true part of the decision making process. The second issue to be answered is whether the Board is so unwieldy , whether it has far too many members or too many factions within the Board all with separate agenda's that make reaching consensus impossible and the decisions that most benefit the university are compromised by caving in to the agenda's of the most aggressive factions on the Board. Just down the road with a former BE member we saw how a very small but aggressive faction on their Board hijacked the decision on who would be that school's new AD to satisfy their agenda and not hire the best candidate. I certainly can't tell you which best describes this BOR but I would hope it is a true independent Board who is engaged and who's opinions and input is seriously considered.
 
If no buyout clause then heads need to roll. I was taken aback when SHU announced Lyons as the new AD as his prior relationship to Willard would always be a question regarding his bias and decisionmaking. Whoever signed off on Lyons is the personal most at fault in this contract fiasco.
 
Loki
Did you question Richie Reagan's prior relationship with PJ ?
Did you question Fogelson's prior relationship with Orr ? Or
Did you question Keating's prior relationship with Blaney?
Do you Tony would be here if not for the prior relationship with Pat.
I ask those questions because prior relations between AD's and coaches are routine in college sports.

Before any of us throw Lyons under the bus let's first find out who negotiated the buyout clause in Willard's contract, Hobbs or Lyons or a third party.
Before we throw Lyons under the bus can we find out if he has recommended that Willard be replaced and people above him have rejected that recommendation.
Again do we know if Lyons was told that Willard must return for a sixth year without his input..

I can argue that Willard needs to be replaced because I have personally seen 5 years of his leading this program and his body of work is a sound basis for my decision. I don't have any information or answers to the questions I poised above and other important questions that doesn't allow me to say that the principal culprit in this untenable situation ( take note SPK of the use of the word untenable) is Lyons or someone else or a group of individuals and until I do I can't put the blame on anyone and that includes Lyons.
 
Who knows hallgrad80. More venting than anything else. Hope Lyons is unbiased and does what's right. But that is not the impression I get.
 
We can not and should not blame Lyons - YET. However as stated above, there are certain questions that must be answered. Something here does not pass the smell test.
 
Loki
We're all venting and every day it seems like there's another new dark cloud over this program. Believe me when I say if Lyons or someone else is responsible for this debacle we find ourselves he will come into his fair share of criticism and but right now there just isn't enough concrete factual info to do that.
 
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