Seton Hall Athletics opens new weight room and new team film room

[400SOAVE]

The Louisville men finished ranked 10th this season.

Hit the link for the rest of the ranked teams.

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/swimming-men/d1

 

[williaza01]

Yea I followed the meet live. They are very very good no doubt. I didn't want my comments to come off like they were run of mill. I just meant they aren't a men's powerhouse. Those would be Texas...Cal..Michigan..etc.

Men's swimming is weird because you can finish 10th but still be miles and miles away from actually being in it to win it.

My best analogy would be women's BBall. Every year teams have awesome years but at the end of the day its Notre Dame UConn or South Carolina it seems every year

Originally posted by 400SOAVE:
The Louisville men finished ranked 10th this season.

Hit the link for the rest of the ranked teams.

 

[anon_4htvdezyfe7k9]

Thanks. Not to pick on swimming or swimmers. But we can't get our flagship program situation right so was just curious about your thoughts on dedicating resources and funding to a swimming program as opposed to focusing that effort elsewhere like establishing a lacrosse program which could generate revenue for the school. (And I hate lacrosse for poaching potential baseball athletes btw).

 

[400SOAVE]

Here are the women's rankings.



http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/swimming-women/d1

 

[williaza01]

Yea i hear you. I know swimming's place in the world trust me. I think we should get into Hockey. I watched the road to the frozen four games this weekend and it seemed awesome. And even I would say trading swimming for legit hockey would be smart.

Funny you bring up baseball as it is close to swimming. Programs being cut left and right. That seems to be a lot of resources for a North East school. I dont think we should cut it by any means (once again i think its cool we kept baseball when so many similar schools cut it) and i know its probably because of our rich history.

But we are a North East school and that means we automatically have a baseball ceiling to contend with

Originally posted by phi_pirates:
Thanks. Not to pick on swimming or swimmers. But we can't get our flagship program situation right so was just curious about your thoughts on dedicating resources and funding to a swimming program as opposed to focusing that effort elsewhere like establishing a lacrosse program which could generate revenue for the school. (And I hate lacrosse for poaching potential baseball athletes btw).

 

[williaza01]

I dont mean to make this a "swimming" thread and hijack it. However:

Swimming is very different sport too like I said. Think of this former Auburn coach Dave Marsh who may have been the greatest or 2nd best COLLEGE coach of all time quit Auburn to become the head coach of a club team called SwimMac (where Lochte swims out of).

Think of that it would be like Calipari quitting to run an AAU team

Originally posted by 400SOAVE:
Here are the women's rankings.

 

[400SOAVE]

phi_pirates, it's interesting you mention that because I don't understand the point of having a cross country team when you have no track and field team.

It's like the song Love and Marriage... you can't have one without the other.

Should you be so inclined, I have linked the video to the Frank Sinatra version which, of course, everybody knows as the theme from Married With Children.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRDBvKGc1fE

 

[400SOAVE]

willi, the thing about swim teams is that region should not be a factor. All meets are indoors, correct?

You need a great building and a great coach.

Is your conference even a factor for recruiting?

 

[williaza01]

Your right thats why swimming for us should be something to look at. We can be good and Metro swimming is a very strong region.

Conference wouldn't matter too much except for perception. You would need a super building and coach with proven national experience to get top top level talent.

The only thing conference hurts is NCAA meet is sorta like BBall tournament. There are qualifying standards but they make the times so fast that only like 2 or 3 men and women get the auto time during the season. Then a meet committee invites the other swimmers to round out the field. So if you had a swimmer who had a "b" cut and was borderline from Seton Hall they would probably not be invited because perception of the school and conference.

but mostly your 100% on with your thoughts.

We would be among the worst teams in the A-10 and a middle of the road MAAC team. For comparison Marist is a far better mens and womens program combined than we are.

You could argue that shouldn't be the case and that would be a good starting point

Originally posted by 400SOAVE:
willi, the thing about swim teams is that region should not be a factor. All meets are indoors, correct?

You need a great building and a great coach.

Is your conference even a factor for recruiting?

 

[lloyde dobler]

Seton Hall softball fell off the map once Megan Meyer graduated. She was a tremendous pitcher, who they found through sheer luck by connecting with her off of a softball website.

Jay Nelson (who was responsible for finding her) left to become head coach at Rutgers, and Vander May, who is a great teacher of the game to younger players, but not so much to college-aged talent, didn't recruit well at all once Nelson left.

They really haven't had good pitching since Meyer graduated (ERA numbers don't lie) and it's been reflected in the W-L record ever since.

 

[Shuathelete]

If our mens swimming is all of a sudden "much worse" than Marist then we have a problem. If true, its a recent development. I am also not sure Xavier offers scholarship to their team. Typically, Loyola (not in the maac anymore i think) was probably the only school that could beat SHU even that being tough. They have a top tier facility and the hype from the Phelps and Hoff days.

Lastly, swimming is a bit regional, as some of the best warm weather schools get to train in long course meters year round. Louisville has been making big strides, havent checked their roster but im sure theres still plenty of foreigners who may or may not be 25 years old.

There isnt a big presence in the north east collegiately, maybe UCONN as the best? Rutgers and Nova women are also decent.

I wouldnt count on becoming any sort of swimming power anytime soon... coach also matters in this sport as well.

I would love to hear Donnie's take on this, this is his #1 EASY TARGET THREAD. SWING AWAY DONNIE.

 

[400SOAVE]

I know it's ancient history but I'm amazed at your comment, and that a program can fall so fast and so hard because an assistant coach leaves.

I am well aware how important assistant coaches are. But that's just crazy.

Whatever happens with the field, it's great news when you're getting a complete renovation plus some upgrades. I hope it helps the team to succeed and to compete. For once, geography is helping SHU. It's fortunate to have that nice park be, in effect, part of the campus.

(It's funny because because between this thread and the softball thread, I'm confused as to where to answer.)

 

[lloyde dobler]

It's really not crazy at all, because the softball coaching staff positions weren't full time jobs back then. Vander May at that time was still a full-time gym teacher in Cedar Grove during those successful years, Nelson was a building contractor. So Jay handled much of the recruiting work.

That was a fairly common way of doing things back in those days in the sport, but things are totally different now.

 

[williaza01]

I assume you were a part of the program so I dont mean to come off offensive at all. I meant Marist program (mens and womens combined as a programs) is and has been much better than SHU. Also Marist men have pretty much year and year out be on par or better than SHU. I know they have an annual duel meet that SHU usually does well in. But swimming is all about the championship meet and Marist out performs SHU most years at the end of the year. This year would actually not even have been close.

Xavier offers men's money

Rider (MAAC) is pretty much better every year. Also, most of the A-10 is way better

You are right about supreme talent going to warm locations but it isn't exactly true. Michigan is a bonafide mens swimming power and they are in a cold climate. Its really all about money facility coach.

lastly UConn would not be close to the Northeast power. Princeton Harvard are much much much better. And most of the IVY is better most years. I would also say year in and year out D-3 some schools in the Northeast small school conference are actually better than them.

Originally posted by Shuathelete:
If our mens swimming is all of a sudden "much worse" than Marist then we have a problem. If true, its a recent development. I am also not sure Xavier offers scholarship to their team. Typically, Loyola (not in the maac anymore i think) was probably the only school that could beat SHU even that being tough. They have a top tier facility and the hype from the Phelps and Hoff days.

Lastly, swimming is a bit regional, as some of the best warm weather schools get to train in long course meters year round. Louisville has been making big strides, havent checked their roster but im sure theres still plenty of foreigners who may or may not be 25 years old.

There isnt a big presence in the north east collegiately, maybe UCONN as the best? Rutgers and Nova women are also decent.

I wouldnt count on becoming any sort of swimming power anytime soon... coach also matters in this sport as well.

I would love to hear Donnie's take on this, this is his #1 EASY TARGET THREAD. SWING AWAY DONNIE.

 

[Shuathelete]

I was not including IVY. You cant swim for an IVY like you can play football for an IVY. I was sticking to the typical D1 programs. IVY kids are on a new level.

Still dont know where you get the Marist and Rider from. They have had some pretty good swimmers in the past, and probably have grown recently, but the Marist vs SHU meet in the regular season was always their "big meet," to the point where the rested and suited and still lost.


Honestly I dont really care about it that much, but youre not being entirely truthful. SHU is on the same tier as those teams however. Its going to be forever an "extra" sport.

We should be better, i can leave it as that.



...and for the warm weather conversation thats why i used "a bit."

 

[williaza01]

I dont understand what you're trying to say with the IVY but fair enough.

Marist PROGRAM (which I said at the beginning) meaning mens and womens is better than SHU. On the mens side Marist has routinely outperformed and swam faster in their championship meet then SHU (at least 4 years now) this year would have not even been close at the end of the year. Rider has beaten SHU in duel meets most of the past years and has actually beaten Marist in their championship meets. Also Marist offers less mens money.

I would agree that SHU is on the same tier. My point was that those teams are our level and we've actually been worse than those teams in the last couple years. For a team who offers mens money it seems that it could be better. but given the facility and range of the program I understand thats asking a lot.

My point was to answer questions of other posters regards to making us better at swimming including the idea of somehow doing a good aquatic center.

Originally posted by Shuathelete:
I was not including IVY. You cant swim for an IVY like you can play football for an IVY. I was sticking to the typical D1 programs. IVY kids are on a new level.

Still dont know where you get the Marist and Rider from. They have had some pretty good swimmers in the past, and probably have grown recently, but the Marist vs SHU meet in the regular season was always their "big meet," to the point where the rested and suited and still lost.


Honestly I dont really care about it that much, but youre not being entirely truthful. SHU is on the same tier as those teams however. Its going to be forever an "extra" sport.

We should be better, i can leave it as that.



...and for the warm weather conversation thats why i used "a bit."

This post was edited on 4/1 7:19 PM by williaza01

 

[Shuathelete]

I was simply saying IVY has a completely different recruiting game since you have to be admitted first and foremost. I'm greeing with you. Its possible to overtake these programs theoretically since the acceptance rate is extremely low to begin with. We arent competing with them for most recruits.


A new aquatic center is a pipe dream...if we can do that, we might as well build a stadium on campus instead. The natatoriums schools have now are enormous.

Small renovations might be possible. Not having a warm down pool or diving well is no bueno.